What is happening to mambo/on2
- Thread starter Dancerboi69
- Start date
It's what they dance at Kizomba parties in Finland.Is the song about Moscow, in German? No idea this was considered disco music
"Authentic Finnish Sensual Kizomba". Coming soon to a workshop near you.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
@timbero-fi would know
bailar y tocar
Son Montuno
This could be Bulgarian folkdance with added head bopping.
RICHMART VINTAGE - Remarkable dance during a Bulgarian wedding in Vratsa! - YouTube
timbero-fi
Changui
The actual term is Discomba Sensual!
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
But how could anyone possibly know if there is a connection between two people on a dance floor? That connection is between them. I can recall a friend of mine was asked to dance and, to my eyes, they were rocking it and seemingly in synch with the music. When the song ended she expressed what a horrible experience it was. I was dumbfounded. They *looked* great imo. But, apparently, she wasn't digging it for some reason. Saying something along the lines she was *forced* to go a route (expression-wise) she didn't care for. Needless to say it didn't sound like a connection was made. You never know from the outside looking in.
Mental?
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Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
It's true. I know the 4 guys you're referring to.
The On2 technique is the enemy of expression when you stay stuck in it and don't build (evolve) upon it.
This is jives with my experience. I have been on that bandwagon that outside looking in informs you nothing about how the dance participants themselves might have felt. That is why I am not great fan of judging from the videos that get posted. You can judge individual dancer’s style, technique, musicality, etc. However judging the chemistry, whether the pair is having fun or not, how compatible they are, etc is really a fool’s errand.
I have been in situation like what you described as an observer. Only later to be informed by one of the participants that their experience was opposite of my judgement outside looking in. I have been wrong when my judgement was positive and wrong when it was negative.
Hence it is hard to argue against someone’s lived experience during those 5 minutes of a dance. We can argue about music choice, dance structure, history, technique, expression, etc. But personal preferences, experiences, etc are very subjective. It is very hard to boil down subjective preferences and experiences through an objectivity filter. Doesn’t mean we don’t try
This applies to all dances I know of. There is a constant arguments among the dance nerds over this and a tug-of-war. Being excessively focus on technique at expense of expression is getting stuck. Or vice versa can make the dance look inelegant to clumsy depending on the level of the dancer. I am sure this type of dichotomy is also gets dissected at the highest levels of formal dances like ballet. Especially when it comes to selection of principle dancers.
To think of it, the expression and the technique are independent of each other. Ideally my lack or strength of technique shouldn’t affect my ability to express. One is almost purely physical and the other is almost purely driven by emotion, whether fake or real. It is easier to teach technique and break it down in objective fashion. It is really hard to teach expression, e.g. musicality, in a similar objective fashion. An instructor can give an example or point in a direction but the dancer has to walk the path of expression on their own. Unlike in the case of technique an instructor can walk down that path hand holding the student if necessary.
People learn in different ways. Learning technique perhaps comes easier to certain set of dancers. Just as it can be challenging to other set. A good technique can take you far. But then as you said, if you are stuck in it and not able to build or evolve on top of it, you have hit a ceiling. The other side is true as well. Dancers can be expressive but without technique can go only so far. We often equate technique to formal training. Which certainly can be like taking an elevator. A quicker way to be proficient technically. There are those who have taken stairs and reached some level of destination - the self-taught (for lack of better words) dancers who through trial and error, and learning from their own experiences have honed a fine techniques and skills.
What I try to beware is of the purists on either side. Being purist creates a trap of treating it like a religion.
I have absolutely no idea where the idea that “Salsa dancers are somehow stuck in some bland infinite pattern loop” comes from. Where does this sentiment come from? Are we talking strictly about one scene in particular or worldwide? Are we talking Leaders or Followers?
From my perspective, dancers now are far more creative than they were when I first started dancing. They are also much more musical and connected. The hardcore dancers in the larger Salsa On2 community are continuously improving upon themselves. Maybe I am living in a bubble of only great dancers - but how can that be when my scene is literally a desert for Salsa?. I almost never travel these days, yet I am more than satisfied with the level of dancing than ever - mostly because I’ve worked on myself and that has allowed me to enjoy my Salsa experience a whole lot more.
I also do not get the sense that people around me are dissatisfied with their Salsa experience - neither leaders nor followers. The only dissatisfaction I hear are self-assessments of one’s own dancing abilities. Thus people are more likely to complain about their own deficiencies than complain about the level of someone else.
This is especially true when I take into account the hardcore Salsa festival crowd. They are certainly not dissatisfied with Salsa at the moment. People crave great dancing and seek out great dancers. And from what I’ve seen, they know where to find it.
All of this doesn’t seem to jive with the idea that Salsa is somehow de-evolving into just turn patterns without flavor. Or that connection can not be found in the Salsa world.
There are so many interesting, musical dancers out there. Where are they you ask? I can’t tell you. But how is it that I am constantly surrounded by them? I don’t even have to travel to any of the major Salsa meccas around the world to find them. I find great dancing literally everywhere I go, even at home.
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Yep, and if you love the music and end up dancing with someone who also loves the music...the connection can be amazing.
I dance because I love the music. Will always love this music.
That Tumbao...man listen.
I respect those who's dance journey has taken them away from Salsa. We each have to find what works for us.
Bachata, Kizomba, etc...seem like nice dances to learn, but not for me cause the music doesn't make me wanna dance.
Which reminds me....anyone on here going to LVG this Sunday? Message me if you are and we can meetup.
I feel the same way. I'm not motivated to try to dance to music that doesn't move me.
I've gone to salsa concerts at places like Lehman College and didn't even dance but I just enjoyed the music. When I can dance at a venue, it's even better.
Have fun at LVG. I have great memories of their socials.
Yes!...I saw Eddie Palmieri there some years ago. Security kept making us sit down we couldn't keep still.
That old man rocked the house!
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
Love salsa music but not the partner dance called salsa. Dancing something like son feels much better, but the moves are very limited.
Someone needs to come up with a better way to dance to salsa. Already started experimenting with urban kiz to salsa
Do you like solo salsa?Love salsa music but not the partner dance called salsa. Dancing something like son feels much better, but the moves are very limited.
Someone needs to come up with a better way to dance to salsa. Already started experimenting with urban kiz to salsa
I think Donna Summer I feel love is a famous example of Italian Euro disco. Somehow it seems a bit cooler and more modern and forward looking than most of the American disco of the 70's. Despite you making fun of it.
Love salsa music but not the partner dance called salsa. Dancing something like son feels much better, but the moves are very limited.
Someone needs to come up with a better way to dance to salsa. Already started experimenting with urban kiz to salsa
Hi Christina!
Make that happen!
The Salsa we dance today comes from the Hustle. Hustle dancers experimented with Salsa music and then the Latin hustle was born. Latin hustle then morphed to what we call Salsa today. I remember watching them dance in street jams on my block growing up.
Good luck on your dance journey!
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
I think solo dancing to salsa music works much better than linear salsa, but I love partner connection when I dance (I don't think that comes as a surprise to anyone
) so I really prefer dancing with a partner. As someone who is highly sensitive to connection, there is something really exquisite about the feeling of moving to the music with someone in total connection. Solo dancing doesn't get anywhere near that for me.PS I've actually discussed this topic recently in great depth (over two hours of live conversation) with one of the salsa teachers I'm very close with and who has been the most influential teacher in my dance journey (I won't mention his name but those who know me know who I'm talking about).
He actually agreed with me that given the state of the salsa scene, he understands why I feel so hindered and limited by most linear salsa leads and why I now prefer kizomba, and even though he doesn't dance it and has no interest to, he said that from what he's seen of it, he agrees that it has much more subtlety, sophistication, and connection than salsa (in its current state).
The fact he understood so well what I meant and how I feel -- despite his great dedication to and love of salsa -- meant a lot, because he's someone that to me has a very deep and wholistic understanding -- the best of all salsa teachers in my opinion -- of dance in general, and Latin dance in particular. So it felt very validating.
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