To social dance or not to social dance

[SalsaDude]

Hi everyone,

I'm dancing salsa for 3-4 months now, doing a weekly 1.5 hour class and going to socials from time to time as well. In my first week I went to a low level social (there's many beginners there) and had a lot of fun. Just being a beginner, smiling and knowing I had no idea what I was doing.

Skip forward to today, at the low level social I have fun, but whenever I go to a social dance where the level is much higher, I tend to feel awkward. I can keep up with the class given before the social, but when it comes time to social dance with unknown girls who know how to dance, I usually spend like half the song searching for the beat (eventually follower usually helps me with this). The other part doing some extremely basic stuff, which often I seem to screw up as well.

With beginner followers I tend to be much more relaxed and it becomes just a funny situation where we both laugh things off. My smile and laugh seems to be less effective in laughing things off with more advanced followers (might just be in my head though). I would say that 1 out of 4 dances are actually enjoyable, the rest I'm just trying to survive and I'm not really enjoying.

On the socials where I go there's usually a mix of salsa and bachata. Even though I haven't practiced bachata much, when I dance it socially it seems to be much more smooth and relaxing i.e. enjoyable. This is because I don't have issues finding and staying on the beat. From there I just do some basic stuff and I'm actually experimenting what I see other people are doing. I screw up, obviously, but I don't mind. There's a sense of calmness to it, as I know I'm on beat and thus actually dancing. With salsa I feel like I'm searching and rushing, and sometimes, for a brief moment it's there - the moment I'm dancing in sync together - to lose it pretty quick again.

That being said, I am aware that the more time I invest, the better I'll become and eventually things will start to click. I'm just searching for the most productive and less painful way. I'm definitely a person who can push himself when needed, so obviously I won't give up social dancing all together, but at the end I'm dancing to have fun. I believe that there's a point - in every learning process - that too much discomfort gets in the way of actually learning the skill.

So my question here is the following; as I have so much problems with finding and staying on the beat, where would my time be spend best? Instead of going to socials, should I just focus on first solo practicing on solidly staying on the beat with some basic steps? This seems to me the best solution if done often, however I know I won't practice this more than 5-10 mins a day v.s. a social dance where I'll stick around for 2-4 hours.

TLDR; lead dancing for 3-4 months, feeling awkward when social dancing with intermediate / advanced followers as having issues with finding and dancing on beat. Wondering if time is spend better practicing more solo rather than going to socials.

 

[Amun]

I think everyone will give you slightly different answers so you have to pick what you are comfortable with. I had a slightly similar issue. When I started with salsa I already had advanced friends and they started to take me out to more niche smaller socials where literally everyone was on the almost pro level but me. It felt incredibly awkward and I felt seriously uncomfortable there. What I did: I picked more open venues, not only beginners went there but certainly not only superstars. I always attended the class before and usually, we would also dance together afterwards. And what I love the most even now is having a group of friends on the same level, and we go out together. I feel really comfortable with them, we practice together and we laugh off the mistakes together. It of course doesn't mean we don't dance with others when being out together. I am not sure how you pick your partners but all my friends always watch the dancefloor before asking, so they pick the right people. This way you will avoid the discomfort of not being on the beat while dancing with the best dancer in the club.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

With beginner followers I tend to be much more relaxed and it becomes just a funny situation where we both laugh things off. My smile and laugh seems to be less effective in laughing things off with more advanced followers (might just be in my head though). I would say that 1 out of 4 dances are actually enjoyable, the rest I'm just trying to survive and I'm not really enjoying.

The answer lies in this paragraph. You feel more relaxed dancing with beginner followers - thus you should dance more with beginner followers.

At the moment, 1 out of 4 dances are enjoyable. IMO, this should be more like 3/4 dances to maximize your fun while also keeping yourself on your toes.

So why not dance 3 times with beginners at your level and then every 4th dance with someone at a higher level than you? You’ll have your comfort and fun dances, but every now and then you can challenge yourself dancing with someone your better.

Btw, you are progressing exactly as you should be and the trajectory fits the profile.

As far as practicing your basics/timing at home, do it. Of course beginners don’t like doing it even for 5 minutes a day when they take classes and learn cool patterns and go out dancing for hours on end, but even doing 5-10 minutes of basic training every day will yield great results at your level.

I call this immersion training (as it simulates dancing in an environment where people grew up dancing) and everyone I know who is serious about improving trains a bit at home. Hum the music in the shower… dance a few minutes during your lunch break… while brushing your teeth… etc.

 

[SalsaDude]

I think everyone will give you slightly different answers so you have to pick what you are comfortable with. I had a slightly similar issue. When I started with salsa I already had advanced friends and they started to take me out to more niche smaller socials where literally everyone was on the almost pro level but me. It felt incredibly awkward and I felt seriously uncomfortable there. What I did: I picked more open venues, not only beginners went there but certainly not only superstars. I always attended the class before and usually, we would also dance together afterwards. And what I love the most even now is having a group of friends on the same level, and we go out together. I feel really comfortable with them, we practice together and we laugh off the mistakes together. It of course doesn't mean we don't dance with others when being out together. I am not sure how you pick your partners but all my friends always watch the dancefloor before asking, so they pick the right people. This way you will avoid the discomfort of not being on the beat while dancing with the best dancer in the club.

Very helpful, thanks! I'll start picking the venues with more beginners and will try out the more advanced venues in a few weeks/months or so. Still working on getting a group of people who I can go together with, that seems to be the ideal. Most of the followers I know are going once in a while to socials, while I'm a bit more motivated at the moment.

This way you will avoid the discomfort of not being on the beat while dancing with the best dancer in the club.

If you put it like this, it just makes a lot of sense why I was feeling uncomfortable. I wasn't necessarily dancing with the best dancer in the club, but the skill level is sometimes just too big and you see the follower getting frustrated and at the end of the dance giving some fake compliment haha.

 

[SalsaDude]

The answer lies in this paragraph. You feel more relaxed dancing with beginner followers - thus you should dance more with beginner followers.

At the moment, 1 out of 4 dances are enjoyable. IMO, this should be more like 3/4 dances to maximize your fun while also keeping yourself on your toes.

So why not dance 3 times with beginners at your level and then every 4th dance with someone at a higher level than you? You’ll have your comfort and fun dances, but every now and then you can challenge yourself dancing with someone your better.

You are completely right! 3 out of 4 dances having fun, while "pushing" myself 1 out of 4 times seems to be a good mix. I'm going to try to be more aware of the followers' level before I ask them for a dance. I was pretty much going into the crowd and asking the first follower I come across who looks like a nice person. Also doing this to avoid watching too long on the side and getting into a passive mode / seeing other guys dance much better than me. Even though the followers I dance with are usually nice, the skill difference makes it a missmatch.

Btw, you are progressing exactly as you should be and the trajectory fits the profile.

Good to hear, thanks.

As far as practicing your basics/timing at home, do it. Of course beginners don’t like doing it even for 5 minutes a day when they take classes and learn cool patterns and go out dancing for hours on end, but even doing 5-10 minutes of basic training every day will yield great results at your level.

I feel the same. All great advice you gave me, thanks a lot!

 

[Noobero]

I'm in the same boat as you. I've been dancing for a little under 3 months. I am part of a studio but also do a good amount of social dancing.

To find the beat I listen to a lot of music in the car. I will sort of tap my feet left right left right left right or move my shoulders to the beat. I try to practice dancing solo 5 to 10 minutes per day. Practicing my basic, sharpening turns, and grooving.

As far as socials go, I always attend the class first to meet people. This lets me know who the beginners are and the ones who stay to dance are serious. Don't hesitate to ask some beginners, because they don't tend to stay late. Once I'm seen dancing I will almost always get asked once or twice per night to dance by a more experienced follow. I take this as an open invitation to dance with that person again another night.

I actually enjoy watching from the sidelines for a couple of reasons. 1 - if you look pleasant and eager you will probably be asked to dance (i get asked even in an extremely lead heavy scene). 2. It's a good way to find someone who just had a terrible dance (lead ran them through the spin cycle), so you can confidently ask knowing you can give a better dance. 3. You can watch other dancers to help develop your style, but also get an idea of what the follows are enjoying from other leads.

One last thing I discovered is to avoid going out when I'm preoccupied, not in a great mood, or have some other reason that might prevent me from being fully present on the dance floor. Connect with your partner, smile, have fun! Don't quit social dancing. I'm progressing faster and having mire fun than my classmates who don't go out dancing

 

[1derpalm]

Hi everyone,

I'm dancing salsa for 3-4 months now, doing a weekly 1.5 hour class and going to socials from time to time as well. In my first week I went to a low level social (there's many beginners there) and had a lot of fun. Just being a beginner, smiling and knowing I had no idea what I was doing.

Skip forward to today, at the low level social I have fun, but whenever I go to a social dance where the level is much higher, I tend to feel awkward. I can keep up with the class given before the social, but when it comes time to social dance with unknown girls who know how to dance, I usually spend like half the song searching for the beat (eventually follower usually helps me with this). The other part doing some extremely basic stuff, which often I seem to screw up as well.

With beginner followers I tend to be much more relaxed and it becomes just a funny situation where we both laugh things off. My smile and laugh seems to be less effective in laughing things off with more advanced followers (might just be in my head though). I would say that 1 out of 4 dances are actually enjoyable, the rest I'm just trying to survive and I'm not really enjoying.

On the socials where I go there's usually a mix of salsa and bachata. Even though I haven't practiced bachata much, when I dance it socially it seems to be much more smooth and relaxing i.e. enjoyable. This is because I don't have issues finding and staying on the beat. From there I just do some basic stuff and I'm actually experimenting what I see other people are doing. I screw up, obviously, but I don't mind. There's a sense of calmness to it, as I know I'm on beat and thus actually dancing. With salsa I feel like I'm searching and rushing, and sometimes, for a brief moment it's there - the moment I'm dancing in sync together - to lose it pretty quick again.

That being said, I am aware that the more time I invest, the better I'll become and eventually things will start to click. I'm just searching for the most productive and less painful way. I'm definitely a person who can push himself when needed, so obviously I won't give up social dancing all together, but at the end I'm dancing to have fun. I believe that there's a point - in every learning process - that too much discomfort gets in the way of actually learning the skill.

So my question here is the following; as I have so much problems with finding and staying on the beat, where would my time be spend best? Instead of going to socials, should I just focus on first solo practicing on solidly staying on the beat with some basic steps? This seems to me the best solution if done often, however I know I won't practice this more than 5-10 mins a day v.s. a social dance where I'll stick around for 2-4 hours.

TLDR; lead dancing for 3-4 months, feeling awkward when social dancing with intermediate / advanced followers as having issues with finding and dancing on beat. Wondering if time is spend better practicing more solo rather than going to socials.

Welcome to beginer-dom lol. Don't be like me. It took me 2 years to get the cajones to social dance. I would have been further along perhaps if I actually took the plunge. Although you DO get bad habits from social dancing with low level people, at least it is the case for me.

 

[SalsaDude]

Welcome to beginer-dom lol. Don't be like me. It took me 2 years to get the cajones to social dance. I would have been further along perhaps if I actually took the plunge. Although you DO get bad habits from social dancing with low level people, at least it is the case for me.

What kind of bad habits? For now I doubt I'm adapting bad habits as all I'm busy with is connecting in some way with the girl, dance on the beat and somewhat throwing out some moves. Plus, I'm still going weekly to a class, so bad habits should be called out / corrected in class or am I missing something?

 

[SalsaNerd]

I am in a similar situation, although I have been learning a bit longer.

One thing I want to point out that I wish I knew earlier (something I get the feeling that a lot of teachers are forgetting about since it is so far behind them):

You should learn how to move your body and parts of your body regardless of what steps, combos, etc. you are learning.

Look up "body isolations" - or specifically "hip isolations", "shoulder isolations", "torso isolations" etc.

I had no idea that I had TO LEARN to move parts of my body without moving others. But when I tried, I realized that I was moving a few different things are the same time.

Doing these exercises might seem tedious because there are no steps involved, but once you start doing these isolations TO MUSIC, you start to get an idea of how important body movement is.

And posture, always posture. Find whatever exercises or routine that you can do every day for posture.

As for socials: try to practice and memorize as much as you can shadow dancing alone, but still go to socials knowing you are going to dance poorly, if only to become okay with that and then use whatever dejected feelings you have left as fuel to learn harder. No pain no gain, as they say.

But do go out dance. Just do it. It is part of the learning process. You are learning, even if it feels like you are only making a fool of yourself. There are tons of small micro-learning processes going on that you don't notice, but they are happening. So bad dancing is better than no dancing.

And finally, I always think of it in terms of learning a language: it is a long term process (think years) for everybody, so dispel any illusions of picking up everything you need in a month because it does not work like that for anybody.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

I was pretty much going into the crowd and asking the first follower I come across who looks like a nice person.

This strategy is still a good strategy. Sometimes, you don’t know whether or not you’ll be compatible until you start dancing and jump in head first into the deep end.

I know of only one guy in my scene who asks absolutely everybody and his strategy works great because he is extremely goofy but also can dance pretty well in multiple styles. But I find that kind of leader extremely rare in the Salsa scene.

Even after so many years dancing, I still prefer to scope out my potential dance partners before asking. My issue is not a skill issue, but more about whether or not I’ll enjoy dancing with the person regardless of skill level. That has never changed since my beginner days.

I can not be that guy who asks everyone in the room. It’s just too energy draining.

 

[Al Israel]

I personally think it is unfair to dance partners to not have basic rhythm consistency. After attending a few lessons if there is still a problem there are a ton of at-home practice options. I practiced at home each day for a month until the basic steps and rhythm became ingrained. This also makes dancing much easier as a lead since you have two less things to think about. In another recent thread someone mentioned a bunch of good resources, one is Salsa Beat Machine.

Good Luck!

 

[SalsaDude]

I am in a similar situation, although I have been learning a bit longer.

One thing I want to point out that I wish I knew earlier (something I get the feeling that a lot of teachers are forgetting about since it is so far behind them):

You should learn how to move your body and parts of your body regardless of what steps, combos, etc. you are learning.

Look up "body isolations" - or specifically "hip isolations", "shoulder isolations", "torso isolations" etc.

I had no idea that I had TO LEARN to move parts of my body without moving others. But when I tried, I realized that I was moving a few different things are the same time.

Doing these exercises might seem tedious because there are no steps involved, but once you start doing these isolations TO MUSIC, you start to get an idea of how important body movement is.

And posture, always posture. Find whatever exercises or routine that you can do every day for posture.

As for socials: try to practice and memorize as much as you can shadow dancing alone, but still go to socials knowing you are going to dance poorly, if only to become okay with that and then use whatever dejected feelings you have left as fuel to learn harder. No pain no gain, as they say.

But do go out dance. Just do it. It is part of the learning process. You are learning, even if it feels like you are only making a fool of yourself. There are tons of small micro-learning processes going on that you don't notice, but they are happening. So bad dancing is better than no dancing.

And finally, I always think of it in terms of learning a language: it is a long term process (think years) for everybody, so dispel any illusions of picking up everything you need in a month because it does not work like that for anybody.

Thanks, will definitely look into body part isolations!

With posture, what do you mean exactly? Is this just keeping a good posture while dancing - like the same as having good posture if you would walk / sit etc? (I.e. chest up, shoulder blades retracted, eyes forward, neutral pelvic etc.)

 

[SalsaDude]

I personally think it is unfair to dance partners to not have basic rhythm consistency. After attending a few lessons if there is still a problem there are a ton of at-home practice options. I practiced at home each day for a month until the basic steps and rhythm became ingrained. This also makes dancing much easier as a lead since you have two less things to think about. In another recent thread someone mentioned a bunch of good resources, one is Salsa Beat Machine.

Good Luck!

Well that's thing, it's just very difficult for me to have basic rhythm consistency.

I'm working now at home on it, but it'll probably take me a few months more to really get in sync with the music. So unfair... Maybe - I do feel a bit guilty about giving a girl a bad dance. However, if I would wait until I have basic rhythym consistency down, it would take me one year before I would attend my first social as to being "fair" to the girl.

 

[SalsaNerd]

Thanks, will definitely look into body part isolations!

With posture, what do you mean exactly? Is this just keeping a good posture while dancing - like the same as having good posture if you would walk / sit etc? (I.e. chest up, shoulder blades retracted, eyes forward, neutral pelvic etc.)

Just generally. It's not something you want to think about while your dancing, but if you can work on good posture generally then it will make a subtle but definite difference to your dancing. Same with exercise generally, stretching and building muscle, etc.