Titanic and Shine questions

[salilsurendran]

Hello Friends,
I have trouble doing the titanic. Whenever, I do the cross body lead and spread her arms out for some reason each and every girl doesn't realize it's the titanic and seems to continue moving in the cross body lead direction. This leads to a very jerky kind of motion where I have to stop her midway(of course i am holding both her hands) and then go back on 1-2-3 then spin her. I am wondering what would be a good way to tell the girl that the titanic is coming. One of the girls told me that I was doing the titanic right but she had only practised it once. I wonder if it is necessary for the girl to know moves like the titanic and copas etc. to do it right or I can improve my lead to make the girl do even things she doesn't know.
I would say i am a beginner to intermediate dancer. Like i can do the titanic and copas and 3 move combos. Do you think it is a good time to incorporate shines into my dancing? I am kind of worried that my partners might think that I am doing shines which is kind of advanced when I am not really advanced in salsa.
Another issue is that some of the clubs have beginner girls who have been dancing for say 3 years but have never taken classes they are there just to socialize. Many times they don't even complete the basic right turn in time. Should I try to be more forceful with my lead and get her to complete the turn. I don't want to tell the girl what to do since I am afraid i might offend her.

 

[vancouverguy]

Hello Friends,
I have trouble doing the titanic. Whenever, I do the cross body lead and spread her arms out for some reason each and every girl doesn't realize it's the titanic and seems to continue moving in the cross body lead direction. This leads to a very jerky kind of motion where I have to stop her midway(of course i am holding both her hands) and then go back on 1-2-3 then spin her. I am wondering what would be a good way to tell the girl that the titanic is coming. One of the girls told me that I was doing the titanic right but she had only practised it once. I wonder if it is necessary for the girl to know moves like the titanic and copas etc. to do it right or I can improve my lead to make the girl do even things she doesn't know.
I would say i am a beginner to intermediate dancer. Like i can do the titanic and copas and 3 move combos. Do you think it is a good time to incorporate shines into my dancing? I am kind of worried that my partners might think that I am doing shines which is kind of advanced when I am not really advanced in salsa.
Another issue is that some of the clubs have beginner girls who have been dancing for say 3 years but have never taken classes they are there just to socialize. Many times they don't even complete the basic right turn in time. Should I try to be more forceful with my lead and get her to complete the turn. I don't want to tell the girl what to do since I am afraid i might offend her.

Boy, I don't know how a girl could keep going if you have her by both hands so I'm having trouble picturing what's happening. Have you seen the other recent thread on the Titanic? There was a great video link posted that showed the Titanic and options for getting out of it. Do a search on Titanic.

I'd do the shines, but wouldn't for more than 10 -15 seconds just so not to be rude. If she can't do shines then she probably would be uncomfortable.

As for the beginners, I'd advise against forcing anything. If they know what to do but aren't doing it right, about all you can do IMO is advise them if you are of the mind to.

 

[KP-salsa]

Boy, I don't know how a girl could keep going if you have her by both hands so I'm having trouble picturing what's happening. Have you seen the other recent threat on the Titanic? There was a great video link posted that showed the Titanic and options for getting out of it. Do a search on Titanic.

It's probably a timing issue. With any cross body turn you need to give direction first - to make sure your partner doesn't just turn on the spot, but then stop giving direction and lead the rotation.

My guess is that you're not giving the rotation lead, or you're not giving it at the right time. Lead the anti-clockwise turn with your right hand on the 5 (assuming you're dancing on1) because your partner ought to begin turning with her step on the 6. Also, the lead has to come mainly from your right hand, your left just comes over her head.

Leading is not about force, it's about timing. The best leaders can lead with just their fingertips, even with inexperienced followers.

 

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

It's probably a timing issue. With any cross body turn you need to give direction first - to make sure your partner doesn't just turn on the spot, but then stop giving direction and lead the rotation.

My guess is that you're not giving the rotation lead, or you're not giving it at the right time. Lead the anti-clockwise turn with your right hand on the 5 (assuming you're dancing on1) because your partner ought to begin turning with her step on the 6. Also, the lead has to come mainly from your right hand, your right just comes over her head.

Leading is not about force, it's about timing. The best leaders can lead with just their fingertips, even with inexperienced followers.

Bear faced plagiarism! ;-)

 

[vancouverguy]

It's probably a timing issue. With any cross body turn you need to give direction first - to make sure your partner doesn't just turn on the spot, but then stop giving direction and lead the rotation.

My guess is that you're not giving the rotation lead, or you're not giving it at the right time. Lead the anti-clockwise turn with your right hand on the 5 (assuming you're dancing on1) because your partner ought to begin turning with her step on the 6. Also, the lead has to come mainly from your right hand, your left just comes over her head.

Leading is not about force, it's about timing. The best leaders can lead with just their fingertips, even with inexperienced followers.

I thought the OP was saying that she was getting away from him AFTER the turn. being connected right to right as she is coming through on a CBL, all you would have to do is hold your right. She would HAVE to turn. And of course as you say, bring the left up and over.

 

[sweavo]

Hello Friends,
I have trouble doing the titanic. Whenever, I do the cross body lead and spread her arms out for some reason each and every girl doesn't realize it's the titanic and seems to continue moving in the cross body lead direction.

Are you just spreading her arms or are you also leading her to stop? Are you paying attention to her momentum? How about her balance? Are you staying close to her so that she feels like you are in control? Experiment with how much forward lead you give her: maybe you need to lead forward more gently so she is in a calmer state of mind when she gets where you want her.

Look at it from her POV: with the travelling PLUS the turn PLUS the arms moving about, there is a lot to distract her from the lead. Is your lead clear and can she feel the difference between your movements that indicate "lead" and your movements that indicate "style"?

One of the girls told me that I was doing the titanic right but she had only practised it once. I wonder if it is necessary for the girl to know moves like the titanic and copas etc. to do it right or I can improve my lead to make the girl do even things she doesn't know.

She has to either know it or be following. If she is following then you can fix the problem by improving your lead. If she is not following and she doesn't know it, you are better off just letting her go where she's going to go, and trying something else next time!

I would say i am a beginner to intermediate dancer. Like i can do the titanic and copas and 3 move combos. Do you think it is a good time to incorporate shines into my dancing?

Why not. As long as you don't confuse yourself too much! Like vancouverguy says, keep it short -- watch your partner as you shine and see if she plays along or if she looks scared. If she looks scared or just starts doing basic steps, pick her up again. Sometimes I do that and a girl says "oh, I've thought of something now!" so I let her go again and she gets to do her shine...

Many times they don't even complete the basic right turn in time. Should I try to be more forceful with my lead and get her to complete the turn.

If the lady has good structure then a stronger lead CAN help... but if you try the stronger lead and it doesn't work, back off again. It could also be down to other problems like your lead is too late rather than too weak, or it's jerky so she doesn't trust it, or it might just be that she doesn't spin vrey well. For the most satisfying dance, lead to the best of your ability, but choose your moves to the best of her abilities. It will get you a happier, more relaxed partner -- who might then suddenly find she can dance better because she is relaxing!

I don't want to tell the girl what to do since I am afraid i might offend her.

Yeah. You almost certainly will offend her

 

[crazygirl]

For the most satisfying dance, lead to the best of your ability, but choose your moves to the best of her abilities. It will get you a happier, more relaxed partner -- who might then suddenly find she can dance better because she is relaxing!

Thank you, thank you

That should go into a SF list of golden rules for leaders.