Tips for teaching and running a class - what do you do?

[Super_Buddy]

Hey guys
So following on from this post;
http://www.salsaforums.com/threads/salsa-teaching-course-in-istd.23680/

I thought since everyone had their own ideas, but generally thought that a collaboration of loads of different ideas works bets. then lest discuss.

Hopefully we can all benefit from each other and improve the quality of lessons as a whole. I don't think anyone is 100% correct and you should try and do it your own way to see what works for you. But advice and opinions never hurt anyone, and is always good to asses yourself to see if you can improve.


Few general questions;

- how do you get people into your classes, what works best for you?

- how many people do you get to your class on average? and how many do you feel you need to keep the class going?

- how many levels of salsa do you teach? and what style of Salsa?

- do you run these classes side by side or after each other - your thought on which way is best?

- what do you think is the most important aspect to teach in each of these levels?

- how long do you think a student should stay in each level if doing your class once a week?

- What do you think is key for people to come back to class and keep coming back?


*please add some more if you have any questions*

EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT A TEACHER PLEASE COMMENT TO SEE WHAT WORKS FOR YOU AS A STUDENTS SIDE OF THINGS

 

[toan-hoang]

Good thread... here is what we do...

- how do you get people into your classes, what works best for you?
We engage third party companies for our beginners. It works a lot better than flyering and web advertising and is far more cost effective.
We use Facebook and word of mouth for the intermediates and above.

- how many people do you get to your class on average? and how many do you feel you need to keep the class going?
We currently get between 80-100 every week. The main thing is keep tweaking things to try and get that sweat spot so that students flow from beginners all the way to advanced. Also ensuring that you have something for everyone.

- how many levels of salsa do you teach? and what style of Salsa?
Foundations, shines or body movement warm up followed by 4 Levels of Partnerwork.

- do you run these classes side by side or after each other - your thought on which way is best?
We have a general level foundations classes first, we see this as key because all our students generally attend and it allows friendships to develop between the beginners and advanced. We also have our warm up as a mixed class as well. Partnerwork classes we have to separate for obvious reasons. Out latest thing is to have a pre class were our intermediates work with fresh beginners; this bridges the gap as well as allow our higher level students to see gaps in their knowledge.

- what do you think is the most important aspect to teach in each of these levels?
Each level has a different purpose, the main thing is to be very clear and definite what the students should be learning. And to keep on reassessing to ensure that the student gets what they need.

- how long do you think a student should stay in each level if doing your class once a week?
We normally have people doing foundations for about 6-9 months. Partner work wise we have the broad timelines:
Beginners: 8-10 weeks
Improvers (Advanced beginners): 3-6 months (women move faster out of this level than men)
Intermediates: 6 Months - 2 years
Advanced: ?
We also have 3 senior male and 3 senior female instructors and rotate every 6 months to keep things fresh for the students as we all have very different styles.

- What do you think is key for people to come back to class and keep coming back?
1) People
2) People
3) People
If people feel at home, make friends they will come back. There are those that come just for lessons and are very targeted in their approach but a friendly atmosphere where people can feel at home and free. Don't get me wrong you also need very education classes and the students need to feel that they are getting something, but more often it is people.

Hope this helps.

 

[wildbill20056]

- how do you get people into your classes, what works best for you?

Word of mouth is definitely your best ally, followed by social media and sometimes (only rarely) flyering. I don't operate on a large enough basis to justify contracting out advertising.

- how many people do you get to your class on average? and how many do you feel you need to keep the class going?

In an average Beginners session we might see 20-25, though that will suffer some attrition before the 6 weeks of the total beginners class is complete. In the Improvers there are currently 16-20. In the Intermediates (there is no advanced class as yet), there are currently between 10-14.

As for a sufficient level to keep the class going, it varies. Beginners requires the most as it relies most on immediate social connection and validation, so at least ~16. For Improvers around the same makes it most healthy, but anything from 12 up, in a quiet week is perfectly fine. Intermediates, well it can be as small as it has to be, depending on the supply of folks genuinely adequate to the level. It has no minimum beyond say 4.

- how many levels of salsa do you teach? and what style of Salsa?

3: Beginners, Improvers, Intermediates. Salsa 'on1' not LA (not power-ups, no high tension) more akin to PR.

- do you run these classes side by side or after each other - your thought on which way is best?

Intermediates run alone, Beginners and Improvers side by side. The former is nice to focus down on precise technique, the latter supplies epic social interaction.

- what do you think is the most important aspect to teach in each of these levels?

Beginners: connection, timing, posture, fun.
Improvers: technique, musicality
Intermediates: technique, attention to detail

- how long do you think a student should stay in each level if doing your class once a week?

Beginners 6 weeks.
Improvers anywhere from 6 months up
Intermediates forever (there is no level to go up to atm! ha)

- What do you think is key for people to come back to class and keep coming back?

Social interaction and tangible progression.

 

[MAMBO_CEC]

Hey guys


- what do you think is the most important aspect to teach in each of these levels?

First off I don't teach and I don't have any aspirations to, but I think that anyone teaching salsa/mambo to the masses, should set aside maybe 5 to 10 minutes of any beginners class to talk about the history and roots of the music and dance. Make your students familiar with people like Arsenio Rodriguez, Benny More, Prez Prado,Tito Puente,Fania to name a few, plant the seed , it'll be up to them to go into greater detail if they want....Just for fun you can have them go off and listen to the music of the pioneers and contrast it with the music they are listening today. You'd be surprised,back in day in Manchester (England), they amount of "ANIMATED" discussions I would have with people who thought salsa originated in Mexico or Colombia!!, just my two cents.

 

[Salsa Student]

First off I don't teach and I don't have any aspirations to, but I think that anyone teaching salsa/mambo to the masses, should set aside maybe 5 to 10 minutes of any beginners class to talk about the history and roots of the music and dance.

Another sadly neglected subject: floorcraft. At the end of the first five week class series the tango school I'm with squeezes all the couples into one corner of the dance floor in order to get them used to dancing in a confined space. The only salsa school that I've ever seen do something similar is the late, lamented MamboU (I'm sure MAMCO_CEC will remember the chairs being set up as barriers and the instructor slowly moving them in).

 

[toan-hoang]

-
- do you run these classes side by side or after each other - your thought on which way is best?
Intermediates run alone, Beginners and Improvers side by side. The former is nice to focus down on precise technique, the latter supplies epic social interaction.

We used to do the exact same thing and our Intermediates often did the improvers class as well. It helped our improvers a lot as they often danced with people of a higher level

 

[terence]

First off I don't teach and I don't have any aspirations to, but I think that anyone teaching salsa/mambo to the masses, should set aside maybe 5 to 10 minutes of any beginners class to talk about the history and roots of the music and dance.
.

If a teacher took 10 mins of a class for that purpose, they probably would not have any students show for the next week !.

Subsidiary info. should be "spoon " fed. The simplest way to administer this, is : before the 1st song is played for class use, a brief intro as to style, group/.band name ,and musical style .Intro. Each following song, the same, but briefly.

There are a limited number of students , in any class,who are really interested in "History " of the genre .

 

[wildbill20056]

We used to do the exact same thing and our Intermediates often did the improvers class as well. It helped our improvers a lot as they often danced with people of a higher level

Yah absolutely my thinking in the original scheduling Great minds and what not!

 

[Kading]

We used to do the exact same thing and our Intermediates often did the improvers class as well. It helped our improvers a lot as they often danced with people of a higher level

Did the followers join the improvers class as well? It's usually the leaders who do this in my experience.

If the leaders join, I personally like it. I sometimes used to get a bit jealous when I just started, but I noticed girls gave me a lot more slack when I messed up when advanced leaders joined so that was good (as long as people rotate).
Most of the times girls give you a mean eye during classes if they are annoyed they can't practice their move because of your incompetence. If they have a few good leaders where they can practice with, they don't mind the worse leads that much.

 

[RobotLion]

Well, I am just a student, but I can tell you how classes work (I use the term work very loosely...)

There are two kinds of group classes here, you can either...

1. Learn the salsa basic with maybe a simple turn or two if you are lucky. The class is the same every week though, so once you go to it once or twice before it becomes incredibly redundant. There is very little focus on fundamentals or lead or musicality.

or

2. You can take the advanced class where you do some super overly complicated pattern that just keeps going and going and going... Way too long for any intermediate person to ever learn. There is absolutely ZERO focus on fundamentals or form or lead or musicality or anything other than learning how to do an over complicated pattern in a VERY sloppy manner. So I guess if you want to be a really sloppy pattern monkey with no lead you could go to this class every week and call yourself a salsa dancer.


So anyways, there is no middle level class, you go straight from learning the basic to the over complicated patterns that include probably 16 or so moves that beginner have never seen. So as a intermediate dancer like myself I don't feel comfortable taking group classes anymore because I don't have the form or lead or fundamentals to be able to do all the advanced stuff, and they don't teach it in the class even if I did struggle my way through their overly complex patterns.

Every once in a while I will take the beginner class just to meet some people and practice my fundamentals, but there are only so many times you can learn a crossbody lead before you just fall asleep on the dance floor...


This is not just one place that I am talking about, this is pretty much how every place I have been to around here does things. I did finally find one good teacher at a real small studio that will go into fundamentals and stuff like cuban motion during group classes if the students are regulars and such, but that is the only place.

It seems like the only way to learn is to take private lessons which costs a fortune.

 

[Kading]

Well, I am just a student, but I can tell you how classes work (I use the term work very loosely...)

There are two kinds of group classes here, you can either...

1. Learn the salsa basic with maybe a simple turn or two if you are lucky. The class is the same every week though, so once you go to it once or twice before it becomes incredibly redundant. There is very little focus on fundamentals or lead or musicality.

or

2. You can take the advanced class where you do some super overly complicated pattern that just keeps going and going and going... Way too long for any intermediate person to ever learn. There is absolutely ZERO focus on fundamentals or form or lead or musicality or anything other than learning how to do an over complicated pattern in a VERY sloppy manner. So I guess if you want to be a really sloppy pattern monkey with no lead you could go to this class every week and call yourself a salsa dancer.


So anyways, there is no middle level class, you go straight from learning the basic to the over complicated patterns that include probably 16 or so moves that beginner have never seen. So as a intermediate dancer like myself I don't feel comfortable taking group classes anymore because I don't have the form or lead or fundamentals to be able to do all the advanced stuff, and they don't teach it in the class even if I did struggle my way through their overly complex patterns.

Every once in a while I will take the beginner class just to meet some people and practice my fundamentals, but there are only so many times you can learn a crossbody lead before you just fall asleep on the dance floor...


This is not just one place that I am talking about, this is pretty much how every place I have been to around here does things. I did finally find one good teacher at a real small studio that will go into fundamentals and stuff like cuban motion during group classes if the students are regulars and such, but that is the only place.

It seems like the only way to learn is to take private lessons which costs a fortune.

Unfortunately this is true. Privates are the way to go for most people to get further ahead. Makes sense though since the teacher just can't pay all the attention to all his students. I've had private lessons and their normal classes were just 'oke' like you describe. It wasn't because they didn't know the material or didn't want to teach it, it's just that most people just a want a pattern or two, and it's hard to correct every person doing the basic step for example, you really need guidance for that to learn it well.

 

[RobotLion]

I learned a good part of the WCS fundamentals I have from a progessive group class I took, that actually had a curriculum and advanced each week building on your knowledge. I have yet to find anything even close to that in Salsa Dancing though. I don't want to be a sloppy pattern monkey.

 

[wildbill20056]

Did the followers join the improvers class as well? It's usually the leaders who do this in my experience.

If the leaders join, I personally like it. I sometimes used to get a bit jealous when I just started, but I noticed girls gave me a lot more slack when I messed up when advanced leaders joined so that was good (as long as people rotate).
Most of the times girls give you a mean eye during classes if they are annoyed they can't practice their move because of your incompetence. If they have a few good leaders where they can practice with, they don't mind the worse leads that much.

I have almost complete carry through of my intermediates into the improvers class.

Why? Well I pitch the Improvers class as a 'next step fundamentals' class, where it's about learning techniques a step beyond absolute beginners, and doing them well. This way more advanced dancers get a chance to focus down on important matters like stepping, whilst newer dancers are introduced to increasingly tricksy concepts.

If you keep instilling it into all your students' minds, it's amazing how well you can convince them, rightly, that you can never ever practice your basics enough.

 

[toan-hoang]

Did the followers join the improvers class as well? It's usually the leaders who do this in my experience.

If the leaders join, I personally like it. I sometimes used to get a bit jealous when I just started, but I noticed girls gave me a lot more slack when I messed up when advanced leaders joined so that was good (as long as people rotate).
Most of the times girls give you a mean eye during classes if they are annoyed they can't practice their move because of your incompetence. If they have a few good leaders where they can practice with, they don't mind the worse leads that much.

Yes, leaders and followers both joined. It worked very well.

 

[toan-hoang]

Well, I am just a student, but I can tell you how classes work (I use the term work very loosely...)

There are two kinds of group classes here, you can either...

1. Learn the salsa basic with maybe a simple turn or two if you are lucky. The class is the same every week though, so once you go to it once or twice before it becomes incredibly redundant. There is very little focus on fundamentals or lead or musicality.

or

2. You can take the advanced class where you do some super overly complicated pattern that just keeps going and going and going... Way too long for any intermediate person to ever learn. There is absolutely ZERO focus on fundamentals or form or lead or musicality or anything other than learning how to do an over complicated pattern in a VERY sloppy manner. So I guess if you want to be a really sloppy pattern monkey with no lead you could go to this class every week and call yourself a salsa dancer.


So anyways, there is no middle level class, you go straight from learning the basic to the over complicated patterns that include probably 16 or so moves that beginner have never seen. So as a intermediate dancer like myself I don't feel comfortable taking group classes anymore because I don't have the form or lead or fundamentals to be able to do all the advanced stuff, and they don't teach it in the class even if I did struggle my way through their overly complex patterns.

Every once in a while I will take the beginner class just to meet some people and practice my fundamentals, but there are only so many times you can learn a crossbody lead before you just fall asleep on the dance floor...


This is not just one place that I am talking about, this is pretty much how every place I have been to around here does things. I did finally find one good teacher at a real small studio that will go into fundamentals and stuff like cuban motion during group classes if the students are regulars and such, but that is the only place.

It seems like the only way to learn is to take private lessons which costs a fortune.

Just out of curiosity, where are you based? Privates are more effective for obvious reasons but are much more costly. A lot of people ahve done very well with open classes.

 

[toan-hoang]

I have almost complete carry through of my intermediates into the improvers class.

Why? Well I pitch the Improvers class as a 'next step fundamentals' class, where it's about learning techniques a step beyond absolute beginners, and doing them well. This way more advanced dancers get a chance to focus down on important matters like stepping, whilst newer dancers are introduced to increasingly tricksy concepts.

If you keep instilling it into all your students' minds, it's amazing how well you can convince them, rightly, that you can never ever practice your basics enough.

I used to do exactly the same thing

 

[MAMBO_CEC]

Hi Toan, ever thought of putting all the topics you write about in your blog in a book, like say a "beginners guide to salsa dancing"? You write a lot of really good stuff, on point and well thought out. I really enjoy reading it!!! keep it going mate!!!

 

[toan-hoang]

Hi Toan, ever thought of putting all the topics you write about in your blog in a book, like say a "beginners guide to salsa dancing"? You write a lot of really good stuff, on point and well thought out. I really enjoy reading it!!! keep it going mate!!!

Quite a few people have mentioned this to me but I have not put much thought into it. I guess when I gather enough blogs I will have a look and see what I can come up with. Don Baarns has actually written a very interesting book using his blogs.

 

[Nika]

If you keep instilling it into all your students' minds, it's amazing how well you can convince them, rightly, that you can never ever practice your basics enough.

From a student`s perspective: This is exactly what I often find quite frustrating: That a lot of teachers don´t even try!

Sure, most people don´t know anything about salsa music and dance when they start and their first priority is to learn some patterns to get out on the dance floor. And teachers have to accomodate that, especially if they have to earn money by teaching.

Still I think, that a lot of people (of course not all!) would be open to learn that there is more to dancing than just patterns and styling, if somebody they respect as a role model just told them.

A few minutes on technique and music in each class and on the importance of basics (in Terence` words "spoon feeding" students) would (IMO) not be enough to scare those away who don´t care, but it would make such a difference to those, who want to learn!

 

[MAMBO_CEC]

From a student`s perspective: This is exactly what I often find quite frustrating: That a lot of teachers don´t even try!

Sure, most people don´t know anything about salsa music and dance when they start and their first priority is to learn some patterns to get out on the dance floor. And teachers have to accomodate that, especially if they have to earn money by teaching.

Still I think, that a lot of people (of course not all!) would be open to learn that there is more to dancing than just patterns and styling, if somebody they respect as a role model just told them.

A few minutes on technique and music in each class and on the importance of basics (in Terence` words "spoon feeding" students) would (IMO) not be enough to scare those away who don´t care, but it would make such a difference to those, who want to learn!

Very good post, I remember when I was first starting out in Manchester many moons ago, our instructor always took time out to talk about the roots and history of the music and dance, without being overbearing about it. As I could remember, it never had any affect on student numbers., but hey, that was a different time.