thoughts on teaching on2 in on1 prevalent scene?

vit said:
So do you have a better example of NY style?
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If that's aimed at me, no I don't. But I wouldn't know what distinguishes NY style from any other on2 style. The only time I danced in NY was with non-NYers one night at the congress a few years back (they all asked to dance on 1).

I don't even know what on2 style I dance! I've been hoping londongirl would be able to tell me but she's been avoiding me since she came back from NY :p (sabrosura might describe it as headless-chicken-pattern-monkey-not-on2-London-style ;) )
 
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Ok then. Well, I would like to get some more info about it, that's why I'm asking questions and trying to get some feedback about my observations
 
Instead of trying to pinpoint "the" NY style, how about id'ing non-NY on2 styles? Has anyone considered Oliver Pineda and his dancing? He is definitely different than say Adolfo Indacochea or Frankie Martinez. On YouTube, feel like I've seen many Adolfo and Frankie imitators, but not Oliver as he epitomizes, in my opinion, clean dancing (regardless of foot placement). So to imitate him is to dance more cleanly and crisply. He is not NY style, but does that take away from him? I mean, he's known for dancing on2 as he competes on2. Would a native on2 NY follower feel funny dancing with him?

If there is any "style" I aspire to, it's Oliver's - patterns and footwork I can get from many sources. There is one thing that sticks out though - when Oliver spins solo, he seems to have a more ballroom technique where as Adolfo and Frankie have the "paddle" technique. I kinda feel like the paddler's "cheat" (although all I can do is paddle, poorly). It doesn't seem like much spotting is going on there.
 
acpjr said:
Instead of trying to pinpoint "the" NY style, how about id'ing non-NY on2 styles? Has anyone considered Oliver Pineda and his dancing? He is definitely different than say Adolfo Indacochea or Frankie Martinez. On YouTube, feel like I've seen many Adolfo and Frankie imitators, but not Oliver as he epitomizes, in my opinion, clean dancing (regardless of foot placement). So to imitate him is to dance more cleanly and crisply. He is not NY style, but does that take away from him? I mean, he's known for dancing on2 as he competes on2. Would a native on2 NY follower feel funny dancing with him?

If there is any "style" I aspire to, it's Oliver's - patterns and footwork I can get from many sources. There is one thing that sticks out though - when Oliver spins solo, he seems to have a more ballroom technique where as Adolfo and Frankie have the "paddle" technique. I kinda feel like the paddler's "cheat" (although all I can do is paddle, poorly). It doesn't seem like much spotting is going on there.
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Yes, I certainly like Oliver's style - probably indeed because it is a bit ballroomy which is my background. Frankie's style is probably too complex for me to understand, he is way faster than me, that's probably why I'm not one of his fans
 
DJ Yuca said:
The thought of feeling timba is not one that fills me with enthusiasm.
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It seemed strange to me at first, but the Masacotes teach On2 (stepping 1, 5 on the congas), but to timba music. After a while, it made sense because the rumba clave has the third strike on the 8.5 instead of the 8, and that's where we'd step for 1.

But I still don't like timba music!o_O
 
vit said:
Ehmm ... are we talking about the same clip, referenced by AndrewS ?
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I suspect the DJ intended this to be a cha cha... except it's too fast for comfortable cha cha (you can see some couples trying in the background) so instead we get some very slow salsa dancing.
 
Well, in ballroom, cha cha is around 32 bars per minute, this is almost 38, too fast for me to dance cha cha but as salsa, it is indeed quite slow
 
MAMBO_CEC said:

Maybe a native can explain it better!!!
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That's kind of how I always understood it as well - style as relates to a particular sense of cool as opposed to a particular timing or foot placement. New York style I take to mean hip, self assured and confident, cool and poised without having to shout it from the rooftops. A man who impresses by his sheer presence, like the city itself. Whereas LA style I see as a man dressed in a cowboy hat and a rhinestone jockstrap running down Hollywood Boulevard screaming "LOOK AT MEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Which is also pretty cool, just in a different way. Especially if you like cowboy hats.
 
Ciaran Hegarty said:
That's kind of how I always understood it as well - style as relates to a particular sense of cool as opposed to a particular timing or foot placement. New York style I take to mean hip, self assured and confident, cool and poised without having to shout it from the rooftops. A man who impresses by his sheer presence, like the city itself. Whereas LA style I see as a man dressed in a cowboy hat and a rhinestone jockstrap running down Hollywood Boulevard screaming "LOOK AT MEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Which is also pretty cool, just in a different way. Especially if you like cowboy hats.
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New York likes naked cowboys too :)

http://www.nakedcowboy.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_Cowboy

File:TheNakedCowboy.jpg
 
Chris F said:
I suspect the DJ intended this to be a cha cha... except it's too fast for comfortable cha cha (you can see some couples trying in the background) so instead we get some very slow salsa dancing.
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This is the subject of a long running conversation I am having with my fellow SFer Groovymambo everytime we go out dancing ? when is a Cha Cha not a Cha Cha but a Son, I think we've come to the conclusion that the vast majority of people in our scene would rather dance a Son as Cha Cha Cha. I have heard comments like slow salsa is really boring!!! So there you have it two of my pet peeves, Cha Cha Cha being danced on1 and Sones being danced as Cha Cha Cha's.
 
scubasalsera said:
Premier, La Style-On1 Salsa traditionally consists of much larger movements, super or hyper extension in the arms, lots of big tricks, very flamboyant moves, and not strict on slot-style dancing. On1 Cuban style is similar... <snip>
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Cuban style is not remotely similar. The only thing that would apply to Cuban style from your list is "not strict on slot-style dancing", because there is no concept of the slot.

Also, all the LA style instructors I've had have been very strict about slot-style dancing. I know what you mean but it comes down to individual dancers and as much can be said about PR/NY style dancers moving the slot around. Perhaps you notice it more with bigger movements in LA style.
 
vit said:
This clip was posted several days ago in one of threads. Nery was dancing on1 previously, this is first clip where I see him dancing on2.
Does this classify as NY style ? If yes, why, if not why. Timing seems to be ok to me, it's nice dancing, just don't know about other things ...

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No, for me it doesn't classify as NY style. More a mix of NY style and LA style. The main thing is that when he turns himself he often does it sharply, like in LA style. NYers don't do that so much. Then there's the way he responds to the music..
 
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MAMBO_CEC said:
This is the subject of a long running conversation I am having with my fellow SFer Groovymambo everytime we go out dancing ? when is a Cha Cha not a Cha Cha but a Son, I think we've come to the conclusion that the vast majority of people in our scene would rather dance a Son as Cha Cha Cha. I have heard comments like slow salsa is really boring!!! So there you have it two of my pet peeves, Cha Cha Cha being danced on1 and Sones being danced as Cha Cha Cha's.
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The Golden Cha-Cha Rule (as learned from Frankie M.): "When the music is too fast for cha-cha, don't dance cha-cha."
 
londongirl said:
I didn't say there was anything wrong with Daniel, he wasn't in the 2 clips I referenced, he was in the 3rd clip, though I don't think he's very NY either to watch, but at least he leads in time.

I was referring to the videos in the post numbers I mentioned in my reply (posts 200 and 207). I can't be bothered to go back and link to them. Look, as I also suggested, maybe it was the women rushing, not the guys, I only watched once. I also said I didn't think the video you posted was bad per se, just it didn't clearly highlight what to me what makes NY style.

AND I already said what I think makes NY NY isn't something I could easily find a video for. Is reading what I wrote so hard? But in case it is, here it is again.



If I could identify what makes NY NY I wouldn't have needed to spend 6 months there, and not necessarily be much wiser in terms of being able to articulate it. But I can often pick dancers that have trained in NY out at a social in another country (based on timing/rhythm, basic step and the way the break steps are stepped (maybe more a female than male thing), emphasis on 2/6, way react to music, "styling", shines, some patterns are also more NY, there's a grooving that also doesn't happen in many non-NY/non-latino scenes, and a few other things). Also what makes NY for me, isn't going to be the same for someone else. I didn't originally post, because I knew it was totally pointless. So I'll just go back to discussing it privately with people that dont get their knickers in a twist and demand the impossible perfect video that sums up NY style (not that I have time to find it even if it existed).
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I would like to apologize for getting my nickers in a twist, I went back and read your post carefully and it's not a critical as I thought it was when I first read it, so my bad. I hope you will still post on the SF and not do it privately, coz I really do enjoy reading your posts and I still would like to dance with you someday!!! I also think it was really cool you spending 6 mos in NY, improving your dancing....peace
 
MAMBO_CEC said:
when is a Cha Cha not a Cha Cha but a Son, I think we've come to the conclusion that the vast majority of people in our scene would rather dance a Son as Cha Cha Cha. I have heard comments like slow salsa is really boring!!!
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When its a Guajira...

As to "slow " the ones that complain possibly dont have the skill sets for slower music ( not un-common ) .
Slower music gives more time for self , and musical, expression. Mas Alma Y Corazon .
 
MAMBO_CEC said:
This is the subject of a long running conversation I am having with my fellow SFer Groovymambo everytime we go out dancing ? when is a Cha Cha not a Cha Cha but a Son, I think we've come to the conclusion that the vast majority of people in our scene would rather dance a Son as Cha Cha Cha. I have heard comments like slow salsa is really boring!!! So there you have it two of my pet peeves, Cha Cha Cha being danced on1 and Sones being danced as Cha Cha Cha's.
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For some time now, I´ve been thinking of starting a new thread in the Salsa Music forum - "ChaCha vs Slow Son Montuno vs Guajira vs Boogaloo?" - with musical examples. If no-one else starts it by the time I get back from my holiday (I´m logging on from a hotel PC), I´m definitely going to start it - enquiring minds really need to understand more on this subject...
 
MAMBO_CEC said:
This is the subject of a long running conversation I am having with my fellow SFer Groovymambo everytime we go out dancing ? when is a Cha Cha not a Cha Cha but a Son *snip*
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IMO it's the job of the DJ to ensure the question of "cha cha" or "son" never pops into your head.
 
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