The Right Stuff?

Sabrosura said:
Strength can be trained. Something like height, shape etc. cannot so it is obviously not what I was referring to.
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Strength can be trained, but only to a certain degree. There are genetical predispositions which determine if the individual, even with proper training, can achieve competition level strength.
 
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Aurel said:
Strength can be trained, but only to a certain degree. There are genetical predispositions which determine if the individual, even with proper training, can achieve competition level strength.
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Anything can only be trained up to a certain limit. But you will only know where that limit is if you train as if there was no limit, i.e., pushing yourself higher and higher. High achievers do that, low/average achievers quit early and then blame their lack of achievement on having a lower "limit" than high achievers. It's really easy to find all kinds of excuses--like I said above, most of us prefer to hold comfortable "feel good" beliefs about ourselves. And that's why most of us are not high achievers. High achievers are willing to consistently make themselves uncomfortable day after day in order to keep improving in their chosen field.

Genetics is being shown time and again to be far less important than we thought compared to the things that are under our control. Further, we have many genes that are "turned off" when we are born but are expressed at different points in life depending on various factors in our lives (this is what the field of "epigenetics" studfies). A sedentary person who begins to exercise, for example, will have a whole new set of beneficial genes that were previously dormant "turn on" as a result of their increased physical activity.
 
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Well, many quit early because they see other people are progressing much faster and having higher limits, so they try to find a hobby more suitable
 
vit said:
Well, many quit early because they see other people are progressing much faster and having higher limits, so they try to find a hobby more suitable
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That's part of the problem, we look at other people who are progressing quickly and assume they are "naturals". We don't see all the training and practice they do behind closed doors, the struggle to get better, we only see the results.
 
And what if they are also practicing behind their closed doors as much as they can and are still getting nowhere?
 
vit said:
And what if they are also practicing behind their closed doors as much as they can and are still getting nowhere?
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Then they need to figure out how to improve their training method since it is obviously not a good one (or find a better teacher). This is where the concept of deliberate practice comes into play.
 
And what if they don't realize there is something wrong in their dancing, tried all local teachers etc ?
 
vit said:
And what if they don't realize there is something wrong in their dancing, tried all local teachers etc ?
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We can play this game ad infinitum. :p If someone really wants to get better, they will find a way, even with no good local teachers (are we talking about Antarctica? :p Even an average teacher can give good feedback to help the average student improve, unless the student is already a top dancer, in which case s/he knows how to train.). They will videotape themselves over and over, find videos of online classes, and they will find a way to figure out how to improve. "Where there's a will, there's a way."
 
Agree with that - just that they will need, as you said, considerably more effort, time and money than "talented" people, so most of them quit ... :D
And no, many teachers are not able to give you a good feedback even at the beginning ...
 
There is a substantial difference between rapid improvement of starters and achieving superstar/champion level.

The right stuff for rapid improvement according to my observations is for starters:
- they have guts
- they have a better wiring of the brain for learning dance movements
- they pay attention to details and are self-correcting (just like toan said)
- they are determined to become better
- they at least like the music
- they practice
- they have a body that's good for dancing

All are essential for rapid improvement. But the first two are what will distinguish the rapid improvers from the rest.

Guts in learning salsa is when someone doesn't feel shy with this totally new thing, strange to ones body, doesn't feel awkward doing or feeling "ridiculous," even with people watching. If there is shyness then the person will hold back. This will result in a slower rate of improvement.

Guts also means that one doesn't beat oneself up when they make a mistake, which will certainly happen when you're a beginner. Say a care free attitude or approach to dancing. Perfectionist will soon doubt in his/her ability to learn, causing a self fulfilling prophecy.

The wiring of the brain is also important. I don't do sports and didn't do dancing before. And I saw that I get the theory of the move immediately. But to translate that into doing it right, effortless, without thinking, always took a very long time in the beginning. Now the neural wiring in my brain is established during the few years that I dance it became easier to learn new moves (now it's more patterns of course).
People who did sports, play a music instrument, or maybe another dance will have the necessary neural wiring to a certain degree. This will benefit there rate of improvement.

Becoming great is something different. Because what I noticed also is that many of the rapid improvers will plateau soon and stay there forever.
 
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A lot of the fast starters have a head start with some useful transferable skills, but most of the slow starters, if they put in the work of their fundamentals can become a fast follower. Having had to apply them selves more than the "natural" talent, they are in a good position to shoot past them.
 
Sabrosura said:
Interesting. Really, nothing at all since you were 12?
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Nope. And I'm not lazy, I still do stuff, I survived graduate school, but I'm not passionate about anything. There is nothing out there that I would eat sleep and think every day about. I do a lot of things and have a bunch of interests, and some things interest me more than others. I used to feel bad about it because the word passion gets thrown around a lot, but over the years I have become comfortable with who I am, along with my flaws. That is actually one of the reasons I have stuck with salsa. 10 years ago I would have ran away after my first encounter.

Also ballroom just seems elitist. I don't know if that's true but it just feel and looks that way. Salsa is a little more inviting and you can learn at your own pace (which for me is SLOW).
 
[quote="GoofusMaximus, post: 257525
Also ballroom just seems elitist. I don't know if that's true but it just feel and looks that way. Salsa is a little more inviting and you can learn at your own pace (which for me is SLOW).[/quote]

Not the social side of BR, and, you can go at your own pace .
 
If judged by how people are dressed on salsa socials and b/room socials in my area, salsa is about 10x more elitist
 
vit said:
If judged by how people are dressed on salsa socials and b/room socials in my area, salsa is about 10x more elitist
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Ok, I'm skipping fantastic salsa party tonight and going ballroom where you are. 10x less cloth. It's like bikinis?
 
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Sabrosura said:
Please read it before giving uninformed comments about "these books".

Claiming "talent" (i.e. a special inborn characteristic) is a key element for high achievers (in any field) is exactly when people use anecdotal evidence. And that's exactly what the book refutes, anecdotal evidence (example: "Mozart was a genius since he wrote entire symphonies at such a young age".). It quotes study after study after study about high achievers.

P.S. This book is great news for dance students who think they will never be great because they don't have "it". :)
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You know, I read a book by Malcolm Gladwell in his book Outliers, that talks about this very issue. He chronicled how the Beatles rose to success by putting in10,000 hours of performance practice time. "Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly mentions the "10,000-Hour Rule", claiming that the key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours"
I agree, talent contributes to drive, innovation and dedication but you still have to harnass it through practice.
 
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