The Polls

bailar y tocar said:
One of the points that is only brought up by people who actually live in the countries that participated in the NATO expansion of the 1990s is: They joined NATO because they wanted to have security guarantees against Russia. It was their choice. They were and still are democracies. In democracies the people make that decision. People in eastern Europe truly hate Russia's policies. Western Europe and the US and Canada do not have that same emotional hatred towards Russia. It was not NATO members recruiting the eastern European nations. It was these eastern European nations asking to be admitted. Just like Finland and Sweden did recently.
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It's not only emotional. Russias modus operandi has always been to wage war (in one way or another) against all it's neighbours, including allies. Currently it means Belarus as well. There is constant trade war and attempts to destabilize all countries around it. I don't have examples from North Korea only. Probably due to lack of information. Well, they have sanctions against NK afaik. Same as most UN countries.

Basically Russia wants everyone get worse, so that Russians don't feel as bad themselves about situation they're in.
 
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There isn’t emotional hatred towards Russia across the board in Eastern Europe. Slovakia and Hungary repeatedly show support for Russia and abstain or vote against key proposals. There are large groups of Russia speakers in the Baltic states, especially Estonia.
 
Smejmoon said:
It's not only emotional. Russias modus operandi has always been to wage war against all it's neighbours, including allies. Currently it means Belarus as well. There is constant trade war and attempts to destabilize all countries around it. I don't have examples from North Korea only. Probably due to lack of information. Well, they have sanctions against NK afaik. Same as most UN countries.

Basically Russia wants everyone get worse, so that Russians don't feel as bad themselves about situation they're in.
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This guy did a deep dive into some of the points you made. Long vid but worthwhile:

 
sunsoul said:
There isn’t emotional hatred towards Russia across the board in Eastern Europe. Slovakia and Hungary repeatedly show support for Russia and abstain or vote against key proposals. There are large groups of Russia speakers in the Baltic states, especially Estonia.
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Same I've seen in Bulgaria, Serbia. A lot of people support Russia. Some of it is dislike for US or changes in their world after crush of USSR.
Also a lot of people support Russian values, like strongmen, xenophobia, homophobia, violence against women, crime, corruption, etc. Russia is like a symbol of where proper values are held. Until they get there and get robbed, raped, and killed.

Usually pro-Russian people have not been to Russia much, don't know the language, etc. I've met many in South America. They're pro-Russia, because they're anti-US. And US is at fault there.
 
sunsoul said:
There isn’t emotional hatred towards Russia across the board in Eastern Europe. Slovakia and Hungary repeatedly show support for Russia and abstain or vote against key proposals. There are large groups of Russia speakers in the Baltic states, especially Estonia.
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Right but that's the gov't. Do the citizens of Slovakia and Hungary broadly share the same views?
 
Governor Moonbeam said:
Right but that's the gov't. Do the citizens of Slovakia and Hungary broadly share the same views?
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There are couple aspects. 1) how media are controlled in Hungary is separate topic. 2) due to EU, people who don't want to deal with government, can emigrate and they do.
there is reverse migration in Baltics now, but I don't think in central/southern Europe. Which is another reason to hate EU.
 
So EU wants to invest 800 billion euros into defense. Feeling sandwiched between two Hitlers the leaders see no other way.


The last german government broke because one of the coalition parties didn't want to agree to a higher debt. Big moment now: the new government wants to make a special debt about - 500 billion euros or so including defense. Or maybe some 100 billions more, not sure about it.

Building up a strong army needs a decade. How will europe look like then? Putin may be gone, his successor may be worse. Maybe the far-right has taken over then in France or Germany, interesting to think what they will do then with this strong army? Maybe controlling the border against immigrants, or sending troops to fight against Ukraine also from the western side.

Back to polls: discussed in Germany is also the revival of the compulsory military service, which was suspended in 2011. Polls show that a majority of germans agrees - except the youngsters below age of 30 who would be drafted, they in majority are against it :cool: The principle "Yes, but not me, let the others do" rules always. Sure the same is true for war.
 
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