The First Salsa Music
- Thread starter David
- Start date
For modern salsa so to speak, I would say probably around the early 70s in New York. Ignited by Fania Records, Johnny Pacheco, Willie Colón and Héctor Lavoe and many others. Boriken is a better authority on this but that would be my thought. Boriken? Dude? Are you out there? :lol:
Any other thoughts on this one? Anyone? 
G
Guarachero
Guest
Salsa Origin?
According to Robertico Torres, former singer of Sonora Matancera, the first time the expression "salsa" was applied to the danceable music was in the late 1940s when Ignacio Piñeiro composed "Echale salsita," dedicated to the African (Congo) who sold butifarras in Carretera Central in Matanzas. At the same time, Rosendo Rosel, composer and writer for CMQ in Havana, attests that "Bigote" Escalona used to introduce Soneros and Guaracheros with the expression: this following band plays with salsa." Then Tito Puente in New York used the same expression.
Remember that "Echale salsita" has a corus refrain:
¡Saaaallsa!
Guarachero
According to Robertico Torres, former singer of Sonora Matancera, the first time the expression "salsa" was applied to the danceable music was in the late 1940s when Ignacio Piñeiro composed "Echale salsita," dedicated to the African (Congo) who sold butifarras in Carretera Central in Matanzas. At the same time, Rosendo Rosel, composer and writer for CMQ in Havana, attests that "Bigote" Escalona used to introduce Soneros and Guaracheros with the expression: this following band plays with salsa." Then Tito Puente in New York used the same expression.
Remember that "Echale salsita" has a corus refrain:
¡Saaaallsa!
Guarachero
Re: Salsa Origin?
Echale Salsita came out in 1932. And the use of the word Salsa there wasn't an attempt to name the music, and the song is not a Salsa at all. It is a septeto-style Son. Ignacio was just saying "throw a little sauce on it", ie, spice it up. And we have no evidence that it was the first use of the word Salsa in that sense.
The word Salsa to describe music as being hot, or soulful, was long-established by the time the music we know now as Salsa immerged in New York in the late 60s, early 70s, but that music wasn't "Salsa", as in, fitting the genre we now know as Salsa. Basically, we can consider that use of the word as related but not the same as how we use it now.
As to the first Salsa, I don't think that can really be answered. There wasn't a single moment where New York afro-Cuban music turned into Salsa. It was a long evolution through the 60s.
Guarachero said:
Echale Salsita came out in 1932. And the use of the word Salsa there wasn't an attempt to name the music, and the song is not a Salsa at all. It is a septeto-style Son. Ignacio was just saying "throw a little sauce on it", ie, spice it up. And we have no evidence that it was the first use of the word Salsa in that sense.
The word Salsa to describe music as being hot, or soulful, was long-established by the time the music we know now as Salsa immerged in New York in the late 60s, early 70s, but that music wasn't "Salsa", as in, fitting the genre we now know as Salsa. Basically, we can consider that use of the word as related but not the same as how we use it now.
As to the first Salsa, I don't think that can really be answered. There wasn't a single moment where New York afro-Cuban music turned into Salsa. It was a long evolution through the 60s.
Hi JHB! Good to "see" you. It's been a couple of months.
Good to "see" you. It's been a couple of months. 
I gathered a little more information from the book "Musica!" by Sue Stewart. She started out by saying that kitchen terms were already well established in Jazz (such as "cooking" and "tasty"). There seem to be many theories about the origin of the term, but there was song performed by the Cuban son group Sexteto Habanero, called "Echale salsita", which means "out sauce on it". Also, in the forties and fifties, Cuban superstar Beny More signed off his show with the catchy phrase, "Hola, Salsa" ("Hey Sauce").
In more modern times, Venezuelan DJ Danilo Phidiad Escalona, called his show, La Hora del sabor, las salsa y el bembe, which translates to "the hour of flavor, spiciness and liturgy".
By the late 70's the word salsa came to be synonymous with the sound of Latin New York, and Fania records played a defining role in this. Peurto Rican New Yorker Izzy Sanabria was both the designer of many of their distinctive and brilliant album covers, and also the MC to the Fania All Stars. Throughout their shows he would exclaim, "Salsa!". He also had a magazine called "Sanabria" where the terms was used extensively to describe the music covered therein.
In more modern times, Venezuelan DJ Danilo Phidiad Escalona, called his show, La Hora del sabor, las salsa y el bembe, which translates to "the hour of flavor, spiciness and liturgy".
By the late 70's the word salsa came to be synonymous with the sound of Latin New York, and Fania records played a defining role in this. Peurto Rican New Yorker Izzy Sanabria was both the designer of many of their distinctive and brilliant album covers, and also the MC to the Fania All Stars. Throughout their shows he would exclaim, "Salsa!". He also had a magazine called "Sanabria" where the terms was used extensively to describe the music covered therein.
G
Guarachero
Guest
Re: Salsa Origin?
That's the the origin of the name Salsa (Casino actually). And you can take that to the bank. And you're right, 1930s may have been the time for "Échale salsita" (although I still have doubts), but the first time "Salsa" was referred to fast Son was 1950s CMQ radio by Bigote Escalona. Tito Puente in New York may have internationalized it, but its birthplace was Cuba. Let's give credit to whomever deserves it and avoid passion of titleship stand in the way of history. :rocker:
jhb said:
That's the the origin of the name Salsa (Casino actually). And you can take that to the bank. And you're right, 1930s may have been the time for "Échale salsita" (although I still have doubts), but the first time "Salsa" was referred to fast Son was 1950s CMQ radio by Bigote Escalona. Tito Puente in New York may have internationalized it, but its birthplace was Cuba. Let's give credit to whomever deserves it and avoid passion of titleship stand in the way of history. :rocker:
Re: Salsa Origin?
actually tito puente always used to say that he never played salsa. they would ask tito about salsa and he would say "salsa, i don't play no salsa..i play mambo." and it is true, tito puente played mambo.
Guarachero said:
actually tito puente always used to say that he never played salsa. they would ask tito about salsa and he would say "salsa, i don't play no salsa..i play mambo." and it is true, tito puente played mambo.
Re: Salsa Origin?
that is a good way of putting it. salsa came about through an evolution that occurred in the 1960s. (the only thing that i would add is that it wasn't just afro-cuban music or rhythms.) the whole thing that is difficult about pinpointing the birth of salsa is that salsa was created before it was named. salsa was going on in puerto rico before the term itself or atleast the identification of the music under the term "salsa" occurred.
jhb said:
that is a good way of putting it. salsa came about through an evolution that occurred in the 1960s. (the only thing that i would add is that it wasn't just afro-cuban music or rhythms.) the whole thing that is difficult about pinpointing the birth of salsa is that salsa was created before it was named. salsa was going on in puerto rico before the term itself or atleast the identification of the music under the term "salsa" occurred.
Re: Salsa Origin?
but salsa is more than just "fast son." cuba didn't do salsa. yes, it did various rhythms that one finds in salsa. but salsa is the mixture of various rhythms and elements. salsa is: son, guaguanco, rumba, bomba, plena, guajiro, jibaro all mixed up.
to refer to it as merely fast son and say that cuba is the birthplace is to stand in the way of history.
Guarachero said:
but salsa is more than just "fast son." cuba didn't do salsa. yes, it did various rhythms that one finds in salsa. but salsa is the mixture of various rhythms and elements. salsa is: son, guaguanco, rumba, bomba, plena, guajiro, jibaro all mixed up.
to refer to it as merely fast son and say that cuba is the birthplace is to stand in the way of history.
G
Guarachero
Guest
Re: Salsa Origin?
Rey de la Pista:
When Guarachas (descargas) took a place in Cuba, those were its ingredients. I agree, but when that took place no other Latin rhythm were in it. Jibaro, Bomba, and all others enriched it, yes :cheers: And we all are pleased of that. But that only happened after it was exported to New York. Of course, no other Latinos are more credited for instantly accepting it and enriching it than Portorricans. We all know that :cheers:
I really hope that you're not one of those who believe Salsa is a New York product. Salsa became the international name for Casino and the first referrences to it can be traced back to the 30s and mid 50s in CMQ Radio by "Bigote" Escalona.
Now, we can argue for ever and never come to a conclusion. And whether other Latin American countries want it or not, Cuba holds authorship of Salsa. That is as factual as Narciso Lopez designing of our tween sister flags.
Us Latinos should not try to change history based on our nationalistic passions. Knowin how to Salsa is different that knowing about its history. :roll:
Rey de la Pista said:
Rey de la Pista:
When Guarachas (descargas) took a place in Cuba, those were its ingredients. I agree, but when that took place no other Latin rhythm were in it. Jibaro, Bomba, and all others enriched it, yes :cheers: And we all are pleased of that. But that only happened after it was exported to New York. Of course, no other Latinos are more credited for instantly accepting it and enriching it than Portorricans. We all know that :cheers:
I really hope that you're not one of those who believe Salsa is a New York product. Salsa became the international name for Casino and the first referrences to it can be traced back to the 30s and mid 50s in CMQ Radio by "Bigote" Escalona.
Now, we can argue for ever and never come to a conclusion. And whether other Latin American countries want it or not, Cuba holds authorship of Salsa. That is as factual as Narciso Lopez designing of our tween sister flags.
Us Latinos should not try to change history based on our nationalistic passions. Knowin how to Salsa is different that knowing about its history. :roll:
Okay, good feedback on this thread but lets get this one back on track. 
Original Thread Topic:
Main question: What are some groups and songs that define the beginning of Salsa?
Original Thread Topic:
David said:
Main question: What are some groups and songs that define the beginning of Salsa?
G
Guarachero
Guest
salsa
If I remember correctly, there were various groups that started this genre simultaneously. Sonora Matancera when Celia Cruz went with them in the era of Guaracha. Rumba Habana, Riverside. But if we look a Cougar, he too influenced its insertion in US.
The grey area becomes wider when Chano Poso in New York held several concerts with Cuban sounds.
Cuban born Jamaican Lewis Harris made some attempts during the 50s. Later Pio Leyva.
As most popular rhythms, Casino is a music born out of a fashion for changes and improvements. To me, even Aragón with its Danzón Chás influenced it.
If I remember correctly, there were various groups that started this genre simultaneously. Sonora Matancera when Celia Cruz went with them in the era of Guaracha. Rumba Habana, Riverside. But if we look a Cougar, he too influenced its insertion in US.
The grey area becomes wider when Chano Poso in New York held several concerts with Cuban sounds.
Cuban born Jamaican Lewis Harris made some attempts during the 50s. Later Pio Leyva.
As most popular rhythms, Casino is a music born out of a fashion for changes and improvements. To me, even Aragón with its Danzón Chás influenced it.
Re: Salsa Origin?
and surely you don't believe that descargas only took place in cuba.
never did i say that salsa was a ny product. i just said that the term was popularized in ny. salsa was happening in pr before it even got to ny. and the addition of bomba, plena, jibaro was happening before the exportation of salsa to ny. check out cortijo y su combo, ismael rivera, etc.
no one is trying to change history based on nationalistic passions. but it is the amalgamation of various elements that create a new product in and of itself. i doubt very seriously that jamaicans would argue that they are the birthplace of perreo (reggaeton).
guaracha is another rhythm all in itself, and it is bolero+rumba+clave (but on a different time measure than salsa)Guarachero said:
and surely you don't believe that descargas only took place in cuba.
never did i say that salsa was a ny product. i just said that the term was popularized in ny. salsa was happening in pr before it even got to ny. and the addition of bomba, plena, jibaro was happening before the exportation of salsa to ny. check out cortijo y su combo, ismael rivera, etc.
no one is trying to change history based on nationalistic passions. but it is the amalgamation of various elements that create a new product in and of itself. i doubt very seriously that jamaicans would argue that they are the birthplace of perreo (reggaeton).
Does it really matter who invented Salsa? Is there anyone who wants to apply for a patent?
Salsa belongs to everybody! It is as international as any form of music (or art) should be!
Everyone has their own opinions on Salsa music (and dance). Some would argue endlessly on Salsa and Mambo issues, others on who invented it...
I am Romanian and dance to this beautiful music... gosh, it's the ONLY music I've been listening to eversince I discovered it, 4.5 years ago! Even now, while I type this, I am listening to Salsa... (Eddie Santiago - Mia)
Do you think arguing makes a difference?
I think not!
I have my favs and my dislikes in Salsa... but why argue over it?
Salsa belongs to everybody! It is as international as any form of music (or art) should be!
Everyone has their own opinions on Salsa music (and dance). Some would argue endlessly on Salsa and Mambo issues, others on who invented it...
I am Romanian and dance to this beautiful music... gosh, it's the ONLY music I've been listening to eversince I discovered it, 4.5 years ago! Even now, while I type this, I am listening to Salsa... (Eddie Santiago - Mia)
Do you think arguing makes a difference?
I think not! I have my favs and my dislikes in Salsa... but why argue over it?
G
Guarachero
Guest
Salsa
Squirrel:
I agree in part with you. Disputing ownership of music does not help some dancers, because they just dance
But for some others, history matters because they feel the need to understand the essence –the ghost of that thing they dance to. It is so enchanting, captivating and seductive that they know it’s got to have mysteries They don’t all understand the lyrics, but they all feel it.
And yes, to understand any language with proficiency, you must learn about the culture of that country :roll: All languages –like dance- have context, and if you think that context does not matter, you’ll be speaking half tongue. I’ve seen some of those half dancers.
Salsa is about cultivating excellence for self gratification. That was the original intent of Africans and Españoles alike. That's what we all do and each time we get better and better (like Buddhism).
Squirrel:
I agree in part with you. Disputing ownership of music does not help some dancers, because they just dance
But for some others, history matters because they feel the need to understand the essence –the ghost of that thing they dance to. It is so enchanting, captivating and seductive that they know it’s got to have mysteries
They don’t all understand the lyrics, but they all feel it.And yes, to understand any language with proficiency, you must learn about the culture of that country :roll: All languages –like dance- have context, and if you think that context does not matter, you’ll be speaking half tongue. I’ve seen some of those half dancers.
Salsa is about cultivating excellence for self gratification. That was the original intent of Africans and Españoles alike. That's what we all do and each time we get better and better (like Buddhism).
G
Guarachero
Guest
Salsa
Rey de la Pista:
Yes, Guaracha had all the ingredients you've just mentioned :applause: But that's exactly what origunated Casino. It all started with Descargas, when groups started to mix all that. Guarapachanga, Danzonchá, Sonetes (+) and all that hodgepodge thrown into one piece.
Rey de la Pista:
Yes, Guaracha had all the ingredients you've just mentioned :applause: But that's exactly what origunated Casino. It all started with Descargas, when groups started to mix all that. Guarapachanga, Danzonchá, Sonetes (+) and all that hodgepodge thrown into one piece.