Teaching beginners is not easier than teaching advanced...?

sweavo said:
Interesting article (thanks to member joyinmotion) on an ocupational-therapy way of looking at teaching dance to complete beginners. The article's centered on swing dancing but I think it applied just as much to salsa... Are there ways you would adjust this approach for salsa?

http://theenthusiasticlife.wordpres...-beginning-dancers-part-1-of-a-2-part-series/
Click to expand...


There really are few differences in teaching beginners, no matter the genre .

The one thing that was missing from the piece ( in my opinion ), and probably the most important.. before establishing any teaching format, one has to gain the confidence of the student, and or ,class .

Simplicity is another key word when introducing people to new concepts, no matter the level.

Demonstrate..Explain , and repeat .
 
I think the graphic in the article sums it up nicely.
http://theenthusiasticlife.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/best-otpf.jpg

There is a difference between 'never danced before, never moved body to music' vs. danced other dances vs. danced other partner dances. That is especially significant for the upper left corner "Coordinating Body Movement". IME it can take several weeks for someone who has never moved body to music to get a basic dance step down and do it independently.
 
sweavo said:
The article's centered on swing dancing but I think it applied just as much to salsa... Are there ways you would adjust this approach for salsa?
Click to expand...
I really enjoyed the article. :cool: I can't think of any significant "adjustments" I would make to that general approach, just for the sake of Salsa.

However, I do think that one additional concern is the language issue, for those of us who teach Salsa dancing in non-Spanish-speaking countries -- especially when we use Spanish words to designate the moves. My studio borrows some terminology from Cuban Rueda when teaching our regular Salsa classes, and occasionally students have trouble remembering what to do because their brains are especially slow at absorbing the Spanish words themselves and associating those words with particular moves. So, for some people, if I say "Enchufe" or "Exhibe" or "Vacila," it's almost like saying "yabba-dabba-doo," because those students have a hard time processing non-English words to the point that they become meaningless.

My theory is that many adults simply stop learning any new words at all (even in their native language) for a long period of time, such that the part of the brain used for developing their vocabulary greatly deteriorates. I haven't seen any studies about how much of our vocabulary is complete by the time we reach 21 years old (in comparison to perhaps the time we reach 50 or 60 years old), but I wouldn't be surprised if it's 95% or higher.
 
Yes! Exactly my experience. Learning the moves is hard enough as it is. My only experience with Rueda was a total waste of time exactly because of this. To me, Enchufe is just a random collection of sounds with nothing that I can reference. (At least I've heard yabba-dabba-doo before ;) ). Throw a half dozen new sounds at me while I'm also trying to learn new moves at the same time is just not going to work for me.
A little preparation before class would probably have helped.

Big10 said:
I really enjoyed the article. :cool: I can't think of any significant "adjustments" I would make to that general approach, just for the sake of Salsa.

However, I do think that one additional concern is the language issue, for those of us who teach Salsa dancing in non-Spanish-speaking countries -- especially when we use Spanish words to designate the moves. My studio borrows some terminology from Cuban Rueda when teaching our regular Salsa classes, and occasionally students have trouble remembering what to do because their brains are especially slow at absorbing the Spanish words themselves and associating those words with particular moves. So, for some people, if I say "Enchufe" or "Exhibe" or "Vacila," it's almost like saying "yabba-dabba-doo," because those students have a hard time processing non-English words to the point that they become meaningless.

My theory is that many adults simply stop learning any new words at all (even in their native language) for a long period of time, such that the part of the brain used for developing their vocabulary greatly deteriorates. I haven't seen any studies about how much of our vocabulary is complete by the time we reach 21 years old (in comparison to perhaps the time we reach 50 or 60 years old), but I wouldn't be surprised if it's 95% or higher.
Click to expand...
 
Good point. I've had the same problem. Since I don't get much exposure to Casino I do still get some lag in casino responding to the calls. It's a well known truism that language learning drops off in later years but doubtless there will be someone on the internet busting (or at least unpacking) that myth...
 
I dont remember having difficulty to learn copa because of its name. (seriously, does copa have a meaning?) even though you make up a word that has no meaning in any language (like "olamalam") you can associate with a thing (like me for SF'ers)
 
olamalam said:
I dont remember having difficulty to learn copa because of its name. (seriously, does copa have a meaning?) even though you make up a word that has no meaning in any language (like "olamalam") you can associate with a thing (like me for SF'ers)
Click to expand...
(What I've heard is that the copa is named after the Copacabana nightclub in NY, where the move became popular).

I would agree that made-up words shouldn't necessarily be a problem - but then again, I assume that you're proficient in at least 2 languages, Olamalam, so your general language skills and capacity for incorporating new words and sounds will be well above the norm.
 
tallpaul said:
I would agree that made-up words shouldn't necessarily be a problem - but then again, I assume that you're proficient in at least 2 languages, Olamalam, so your general language skills and capacity for incorporating new words and sounds will be well above the norm.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Azana will disagree :D
 
tallpaul said:
I would agree that made-up words shouldn't necessarily be a problem - but then again, I assume that you're proficient in at least 2 languages, Olamalam, so your general language skills and capacity for incorporating new words and sounds will be well above the norm.
Click to expand...

Not sure if your comment is tongue-in-cheek. Almost none of the cross-body dancers have problem learning in and out because it is called Copa. It you look at think of the terninology used when teaching xbody style - basic step, back basic, back break, right turn, hook turn, backspot turn, underarm turn, etc. Notice something? If you are English speaking these are the words you understand immediately. Now imagine if you had one group of students who understood English and other group who didn't speak English. The second group will be often lost because their brain would be trying to process what you are asking them to do. For the first group who understand the language the name acts as a crutch to associate with the movement they have to execute. Replace all these with random words. Second group will still struggle. The first one won't be as proficient.

Another reason the comparison of 'copa' with names of casino/reuda moves is a bit fallacious is because the latter uses a name for either a single move or series of moves, If I say 'cross body', then 'back break' then 'left turn', then 'copa', then 'barrel turn' or 'sweetheart position', I can guarantee you that while most of us know how to execute it, our execution will slow down when it comes to 'barrel turn' or 'sweetheart position' as our brain processes how to get there. Add a layer of complexity by using hard to understand word and brain processing cycles increase.

The third is the name is itself. 'Copa' is like 'Sony'. Simple sound and easy to say compared to 'Haier' or 'Huawei'. Same with 'Bayerische Motoren Werke' or 'Chevrolet' or 'Mustang' compared to 'BMW' or 'Audi' or 'Chevy'. One set is processed faster than the other.

That's with one word. Then you string a sequence of words that corresponds to a sequence of movements to be performed, your brain is reacting by processing them serially.The brain is very good at processing that which is either instinctive or can be parallelized easily versus that which is logical or serial. 'Clap' vs 'pass the ball from left hand to right hand'.
 
olamalam said:
I dont remember having difficulty to learn copa because of its name. (seriously, does copa have a meaning?) even though you make up a word that has no meaning in any language (like "olamalam") you can associate with a thing (like me for SF'ers)
Click to expand...

tallpaul said:
I would agree that made-up words shouldn't necessarily be a problem - but then again, I assume that you're proficient in at least 2 languages, Olamalam, so your general language skills and capacity for incorporating new words and sounds will be well above the norm
Click to expand...
I don't know whether foreign/unfamiliar words "should" or "shouldn't" be a problem....but my simple point was that Spanish terminology actually is a problem for a significant portion of non-Spanish-speaking students. Accordingly, any instructor of beginner-level Salsa students must take that issue into account. I assume the solution that most English-speaking instructors use is to just pick English words to designate moves.

I personally try to interchange the use of the Spanish term and an "all-English" counterpart when teaching my "regular" Salsa students of all levels (and not just beginners, since some people's brains never get used to the foreign words regardless of how long they've taken classes). However, that dual-naming approach isn't really possible when teaching Rueda, so I make the extra effort of providing a written glossary of the names/pronunciations of the moves for my Rueda students. That's not a 100% solution, but seeing the term in writing does give an extra layer of understanding for many more people, beyond just hearing only a "strange" collection of sounds. The visual element also helps some people make sense of the sounds, especially if a combination of letters has a different sound in Spanish than it would in English, or if the students are exposed to separate instructors say the same word but with very different accents.

I would also be interested in hearing opinions about whether the Spanish lyrics in most Salsa songs is an issue that hinders some beginner students from fully connecting with the music and, by extension, connecting the music with the dance. I do think that happens occasionally, although not nearly as much as the difficulty when Spanish terms are used for the moves.
 
Big10 said:
I would also be interested in hearing opinions about whether the Spanish lyrics in most Salsa songs is an issue that hinders some beginner students from fully connecting with the music and, by extension, connecting the music with the dance. I do think that happens occasionally, although not nearly as much as the difficulty when Spanish terms are used for the moves.
Click to expand...

It's impossible to know I'm afraid.

I'm a non-spanish speaker and I have no idea if I would be more connected to music if I understood the lyrics or not since my focus is only on the rhythm and melody. Similarly a spanish-speaker wouldnt know how it felt if s/he wasnt speaking Spanish.

One can give an example like starting salsa as a non-spanish speaker and then learning salsa might improve his musicality but it might be due to his increase in his salsa experience during the time he spent learning spanish.

Also when I dance to a salsa song in English or Turkish (yes, there are some salsa songs in Turkish :) ), even though I understand the lyrics, I enjoy it less since it sounds unnatural to me.
 
I'll add that the only Spanish term the I've encountered in crossbody style Salsa lessons in the US is the "copa". It seems that Casino and Rueda dancers encounter many many many more Spanish words (guapea, adios, exhíbela, sombrero, dile que no, setenta, paséala, dame, enchufla, etc.). I'm a native Spanish speaker, and it's hard for me to keep those moves straight. While the names of the moves are often evocative of the "action", they're not really describing the movement (unlike saying cross body lead with inside turn using a left to right hand hold, for example). I do understand that the rich terminology is helpful for Rueda dancers because it condenses a series of movements into a single command, but it's a lot of stuff to remember for a new dancer!
 
Big10 said:
.
I would also be interested in hearing opinions about whether the Spanish lyrics in most Salsa songs is an issue that hinders some beginner students from fully connecting with the music and, by extension, connecting the music with the dance. I do think that happens occasionally, although not nearly as much as the difficulty when Spanish terms are used for the moves.
Click to expand...

The lyrics of any song, in any genre, usually tell a story. Does that affect HOW dancers interpret a song ?.. more than likely, Even a slim working knowledge of "key " words, like ,, Siempre, Todo,Alma, Corazon etc, would be an inroads, to creating a small vocabulary .

As to affecting how people dance.. they dont even recognise ( in many cases ) the changes from a Montuno to a Cumbia or a pure Son, and or other rhythms, that are in many compositions .
 
GroovyMambo said:
the "action", they're not really describing the movement (unlike saying cross body lead with inside turn using a left to right hand hold, for example).
Click to expand...

The American style Ballroom particularly in Samba, andTango, have steps with names, that in some cases bare no relationship to the action.
Samba is replete with them , and even profs have difficuly pronouncing some of the names like for e.g... Botofogo Combatuque , Caixo and many more.
Tango, American style also has numerous spanish words for steps .
So, did students have a more difficult time remembering/executing such names/steps ?.. never in my experience . Its all about repetition .
 
GroovyMambo said:
While the names of the moves are often evocative of the "action", they're not really describing the movement (unlike saying cross body lead with inside turn using a left to right hand hold, for example). I do understand that the rich terminology is helpful for Rueda dancers because it condenses a series of movements into a single command, but it's a lot of stuff to remember for a new dancer!
Click to expand...

New dancers are going to have trouble with the moves regardless of what the names are but the best part about casino rueda calls is that they are precise. The common calls are the same everywhere which is a benefit for experienced dancers, whereas beginners are going to have the same challenge as in any style. Some beginners who learn in whole movement rather than breakdown parts will have an advantage in advancing faster in casino as the intermediate advanced moves are made up of beginner elements. OTOH, some beginners advance too fast and their dance technique fails to keep up with their memory of executing moves. Of course that happens in xbody too.
 
Big10 said:
I would also be interested in hearing opinions about whether the Spanish lyrics in most Salsa songs is an issue that hinders some beginner students from fully connecting with the music and, by extension, connecting the music with the dance. I do think that happens occasionally, although not nearly as much as the difficulty when Spanish terms are used for the moves.
Click to expand...

Actually, as I'm learning Spanish too I found the opposite to be the case, if you can't understand the lyrics then it's just a (hopefully) pleasant background noise but more recently I'll catch the lyrics and some part of the language will stick out and I'll start to wonder whether that verb conjugation was correct, or why it would be the subjunctive there or.. oh crap.. 567..

When I didn't understand the dancing was easier :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top