showblocks at congress parties

J

Jolinia

Changui
Since I visited my first congress more than two years ago I found that the show blocks have been getting longer and longer.

I really appreciate all the hard work and energy that performers put into creating the choreography, hours and hours of rehearsing, coming up with costumes and getting on stage to give their very best. And some shows really are amazing.

But is it really necessary to make people watch a 1 1/2 - hour showblock when they paid 20 € to dance their feet off at the congress party? Especially since there were seats for only about a third of the audience and most people had to stand in their dance shoes, i.e. heels for most of the girls, for 90 minutes to watch the shows.
I was lucky, there was a table where I was standing so I sat down on the table but even then I was exhausted after 90 minutes of shows. Plus the showblock was at the best dance time: from 11:30 pm to 1:00 am and I kept thinking I'd rather be dancing.

I could have gone to the back of the room and dance ignoring the actual performance but I felt it would have been disrespectful of the performers and their hard work.

Anyway, I'm intersted in your take on showblocks at salsa congresses. How long should they be? Or should long show blocks be cut into several shorter blocks? Any other thoughts on shows at congresses?
 
Over-long shows are the number 1 influence keeping me away from congresses.

I've been salsaing for nearly 7 years now and my ability to stay up late isn't what it was when I started. I'd like time to dance my socks off and be in bed by 1 or 2 am. At Bognor '06 I lost the will to live let alone dance by the end of the shows. It was something like 9:30 to 11:45 and was probably against the European human rights directives.

I think part of the problem is that there are different audiences to cater to: if you treat the congress as a holiday then you want to be entertained and inspired before you have a go yourself, but if you are a hardcore professional, it's more like a trade show, so you want to see what everyone is up to, so more is better.

Also I feel as if the shows suffer from not having a separate producer - when the show producer is also the congress organiser, it becomes politically very difficult to turn down an act, possibly insulting someone who is offering to teach workshops at a knock down price in consideration of the publicity...

I lay this at the door of the show producer, not the acts, who as you say work hard and produce high quality stuff.
 
sweavo said:
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At Bognor '06 I lost the will to live let alone dance by the end of the shows.



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LMAO :lol: :lol:



As to the poster-- why should you feel guilty ? -- if every one who complains ( and there appears to be many ) go to another room-- the message will get back very quickly !!
 
sweavo said:
At Bognor '06 I lost the will to live let alone dance by the end of the shows.
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I remember those shows. Or rather I don't remember a single act, just the fact that it felt like 3 hours and I was ready for bed when it all finished.

To be fair I think Salsa-UK learnt from that and cut the length of the shows in Bournemouth. They were still pretty long there though.
 
Terence2 said:
As to the poster-- why should you feel guilty ? -- if every one who complains ( and there appears to be many ) go to another room-- the message will get back very quickly !!
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I think it is up to the organizers to put together a showblock that is not too long and exhausting for the audience.
I felt that by leaving I would take out my unhappiness with the length of the block on the performers, not the organizer.
Imagine you as a performer presenting what you have been working on so hard and everyone leaves.
 
Personally anything more than 10 performances (or even less if the MC loves to talk :roll:) in a single block is too much. Either keep shows short or provide a separate room for people to go to and dance.

At every UK congress I always end up having to sneak out halfway through the shows as I get too cold and stiff (shows starting late don't help either). At least they give you a separate room with a DJ so you can go there and dance. I do feel bad about sneaking out though, and apparently I missed some good performances. At places without a separate room, I often turn up late to catch the last few performances.
 
Like I think others are saying I love the show dances - often amazing to watch - but they take up too much time and take up the best dancing time. (I can't go on dancing all night these days - getting too old!). They're also intrusive and break the rhythm of the night.

I think they should be at the beginning of the evening, no more than 45-60 minutes tops (including MC interludes).
 
Personally, I don't like watching any shows at all. I don't have a large sample pool for this measurement, but in every case where I have observed the people from a dance group out social dancing, I much prefer watching them social dance.
 
I think shows, in general, are annoying and I'd rather be dancing. That said, I am part of a dance company, so I guess I am a hypocrite :shock:

Like MacMoto, I like congresses where they have a separate room where you can dance during the shows. And I also think more than 10 shows is excessive. (LA congress had 25 - per night! Shoot me!)

Jeni
 
I agree. I wish the shows weren't so long. I have to admit that I usually don't watch the shows; instead I use the time to take a nap or get ready for the evening. Very few shows entertain me, although it's not to say that they are bad. I just really want to be dancing myself.

Personally, I wish salsa culture wasn't associated with such late nights. I would rather start social dancing earlier and I sometimes struggle to start dancing hard-core around midnight (though, of course, I always manage to make it to the end!) Maybe it's just me getting older. But, that's why I appreciate and prefer early evening salsa socials, like Jimmy's and Barrio Latino.
 
I've just come back from the Sydney Congress (WOW!!!) and whilst the shows did go for quite a while I was glad that they started at 8.30 rather than any later. I agree had the shows started much later I would not have been impressed.
 
Bailando said:
Personally, I wish salsa culture wasn't associated with such late nights. I would rather start social dancing earlier and I sometimes struggle to start dancing hard-core around midnight (though, of course, I always manage to make it to the end!) Maybe it's just me getting older.
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I couldn't agree more, Bailando ('cept it's me getting older, not you :lol: ). Even if I'm not working the next day (and thank goodness I have flexitime), there are times when I would really quite like to be up and about and compos mentis at a relatively early time of day. It's annoying after a big Friday night salsa that when I go market shopping the next day, there's not much left! (yes, I know I could set an alarm clock and drink a humungous amount of coffee ...)

E.g. Salsology at Prestwich is an hour or more's drive from me, which means I'm never home before 3 am, sometimes quite a bit later if I've been giving lifts to people and need to drop them off. I'm not sure about the wisdom and safety of driving around the motorway network in the early hours of the morning when you've danced your socks off all night either - I keep hearing of people who have to stop when they feel themselves dozing off at the wheel. It's not going to be long before a tragic salsa-induced motorway car crash.

Actually, the late night is one of the reasons why I'm less inclined to go to Salsology these days. The salsa nights at Blackpool Tower are the same, but the music's better at the Tower and it's a friendlier crowd than Salsology, so I persevere with the Tower. At neither of them, does the dancing proper start before 10 pm. Usually a bit later. So it's just not feasible to turn up earlier and leave earlier.

Is it because salsa promoters don't have jobs or other things to do in the morning? I can't believe that venues are cheaper from say 10-2am than they would be from 8 till midnight - the other way round surely, because of overtime to venue staff?
 
Trust me, I'm definitely getting older. I notice a significant drop in my energy level now than when I was in my 20s. I used to be able to go out quite late over many consecutive nights and still function (although sometimes barely!) at work.

I have always wondered why salsa parties have to start so late. I think you bring up a good point--is it really because, as you say, salsa promoters don't have day jobs and thus don't need to get up early? Or, is it because salsa is associated with a certain crowd that tends to like to stay out late? Let's face it--there is a culture which I've noticed within many hard-core salsa scenes (at least for the on2 crowd which I've seen in several cities now). It attracts people who are, for the most part, sexy and flirtatious, and like to have fun. Does it not appeal to this crowd to start early and end early?

Or, am I turning into a fuddy-duddy? Oh no!

I guess, in the end, I don't really mind the late nights as I love salsa more than not having enough sleep, but it just means that I don't go out as much anymore....which is a shame.
 
jenibelle said:
I think shows, in general, are annoying and I'd rather be dancing. That said, I am part of a dance company, so I guess I am a hypocrite :shock:
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Heh heh, I've heard this from others as well.
I don't think it's hypocritical, the performance training must be great for your dancing and it can be lots of fun to work on something in a group like that.
I think of salsa performances kind of like the high school play... they're really more for the participants than for the observers.

That's why the congress ones were so annoying. Watching one high school play with all your friends in it is fun... watching fifteen high-school plays starring other people's friends is shoot-me material.

Bailando said:
It attracts people who are, for the most part, sexy and flirtatious, and like to have fun.
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So how come this forum is dominated by introverted science/engineering/computer geeks?
http://www.salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=6763

Another AndrewS said:
Is it because salsa promoters don't have jobs or other things to do in the morning?
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I bet this is a big part of it. I love the early events too, and they're quite well attended (at least the ones I've seen, which are the 3 Sunday evening ones in NYC - Jimmy's, Carlos', PielCanela). I really don't think the late thing is being pushed by the dancers.

Also there's this culture of the more experienced dancers showing up late, which I think comes from the fact that people who are less experienced/dedicated will generally show up for the lesson and leave in time to get sleep; so the only time the addicts can get a clear floor and good partners is after the masses decamp.

I wonder what would happen if they started opening the dance floor *before* the lesson - say, open dancing from six to ten, then lesson, and then more open dancing. The newbies don't stick around more than an hour after the lesson anyway. I bet people who really want a fix would find a way to be there by six, whereas the non-addicts would go home from work, shower, eat, and show up in time for the lesson at ten.
 
I think that there's also a bit of status involved in showing up late to salsa events...like once you're dancing with a certain level of dancer, you observe that they don't show up until later in the evening, so you start showing up closer to that time as well, figuring you will want to have more energy to dance with them, as well as feeling more like you belong in that "shift" of dancer on the floor.

I've never been to a congress, so my knowledge/insight into this is limited to the events I've been to with performances on a smaller scale. I think that they're too long, start too late, break up the flow of dancing, etc. I feel like they should start earlier in the evening...for folks who are die-hard performance watchers, they'll still show up early to watch them. for people who would like to go support their friends, admire their salsa mentors, etc, they'll show up early to watch them too. but for others, who get bored, stiff, tired, or annoyed, they can arrive at a decent time and get to dance. Maybe promoters could offer a discount incentive for people who arrive for the early show/performances, to try to keep the audience numbers up.

As others have said, I think the work that groups put into practicing and rehearsals is fantastic. As I don't have any aspirations to perform, however, I'd like to get out there and do my thing by social dancing at a decent hour! :lol:
 
noobster said:
I bet this is a big part of it. I love the early events too, and they're quite well attended (at least the ones I've seen, which are the 3 Sunday evening ones in NYC - Jimmy's, Carlos', PielCanela). I really don't think the late thing is being pushed by the dancers.
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Evenings here in Tokyo seem to start and end earlier than I'm used to... The biggest monthly event here finishes at 11.30 :shock: In Edinburgh, most nights started at 10pm and many people didn't bother turning up until after 11.

noobster said:
I wonder what would happen if they started opening the dance floor *before* the lesson - say, open dancing from six to ten, then lesson, and then more open dancing. The newbies don't stick around more than an hour after the lesson anyway. I bet people who really want a fix would find a way to be there by six, whereas the non-addicts would go home from work, shower, eat, and show up in time for the lesson at ten.
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I remember one congress where the afterparty went on till 7am - so real diehards would just move on from the afterparty to the morning party, then sleep during the workshop hours and shows, reemerging after midnight :P
 
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