Shouted at by a lead

S

Smarties

Changui
Hi everyone,

Just wanted to get the forum’s opinion on an issue I had at my last social dance.
I’ve recently joined a local salsa community (around 50 people on an average night) and have really been enjoying myself - especially getting back into dancing since COVID lockdowns.

I’m an advanced female dancer, and have been social dancing for around 7 years. I also quite enjoy leading as well as following, hence split my time at socials around 50:50 dancing with men and women.

I’ve recently gotten to know members of the advanced class reasonably well (there are usually around 10 students in a class) however there is one lead who I personally think has been quite rude to me. He first seemed to take issue with the fact that I enjoy leading other ladies, and asked me why I would want to do that. I was a bit taken aback and didn’t really say much (we were mid-dance)

Last week however, he asked me to dance and everything was going well - however he tried to lead a particular move which was a bit confusing for me to follow. He then proceeded to yell at me “Oh COME ON” and then started shouting 123, 567 whilst yanking me quite painfully into the move (I think it was something as simple as back to back, but just a very odd lead).

I was genuinely mortified by the experience, and luckily for me - the music slowed down for a few bars, which the lead took to be the end of the song, and he just walked off and left me on the floor.

We’ve danced a few times before, and I always try and make the effort to make it enjoyable for both of us - I’m predominantly a Cuban dancer, and he prefers crossbody (the class is meant to be Cuban) and I have found his lead to be quite rough at times - but have largely ignored it. However I feel he really did cross a line last week.

I’ve never had a lead become so angry at me in all my years of dancing, and it truly was very unpleasant to be humiliated like that. I consider myself a friendly and approachable dancer who dances with leads and follows of all levels, hence I was quite upset to be treated that way.

(Also for context - we attended another Cuban class, and I did notice he was struggling with some of the basics, but pretended not to notice so as not to embarrass him - however he frequently stared at me as if to gauge my reaction whenever he was being corrected)

Sorry for the essay!
I would really appreciate your advice on how to handle the group class (especially if it’s quite small) and if he asks me to dance socially again? I hardly ever reject a dance, but I feel I have a good reason to?

Also do you think this behaviour is something I should quietly notify to the instructor? I’m really keen to avoid any drama as it’s a very small scene.

Many thanks in advance :)
 
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Smarties said:
e tried to lead a particular move which was a bit confusing for me to follow.
Click to expand...

This happened in class or at a social?

Was the move something you learned already in class?

Does he mix both Crossbody and Cuban moves in the same dance?

If he's primarily a Crossbody dancer and the classes you take are more Cuban and he's leading stuff he doesn't know how to lead, then it's his fault.

If he struggles with basic Cuban moves, he shouldn't be leading complicated moves.

How is he even considered advanced?

This is besides the whole yelling and counting at you thing, which is unacceptable both in and out of class.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
This happened in class or at a social?

Was the move something you learned already in class?

Does he mix both Crossbody and Cuban moves in the same dance?

If he's primarily a Crossbody dancer and the classes you take are more Cuban and he's leading stuff he doesn't know how to lead, then it's his fault.

If he struggles with basic Cuban moves, he shouldn't be leading complicated moves.

How is he even considered advanced?

This is besides the whole yelling and counting at you thing, which is unacceptable both in and out of class.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris for your response :)

Sorry I should have clarified, this was during a social dance.

The classes are marketed as Cuban, but attract both Cuban and crossbody dancers and to be honest the routines taught are probably a fusion.

In terms of the dance, the lead was dancing a mixture of both Cuban and crossbody moves. I don’t remember the exact sequence he was trying to execute - but as far as I recall, remember thinking his lead was was bit delayed, but the move itself was not complicated.

hope that makes sense!
 
Smarties said:
Thanks Chris for your response :)

Sorry I should have clarified, this was during a social dance.

The classes are marketed as Cuban, but attract both Cuban and crossbody dancers and to be honest the routines taught are probably a fusion.

In terms of the dance, the lead was dancing a mixture of both Cuban and crossbody moves. I don’t remember the exact sequence he was trying to execute - but as far as I recall, remember thinking his lead was was bit delayed, but the move itself was not complicated.

hope that makes sense!
Click to expand...

He’s just not as advanced as he thinks he is. It’s all ego. But him lashing out like that is crossing a line that shouldn’t be tolerated.

As for notifying an instructor about his behavior, you could bring it up outside of class, though moreso as an outlet to vent rather than to expect change. Teachers don’t have control over what happens outside of class. This is something that goes beyond dancing. Very rarely do people shout at their dance partners and to do it with someone you are acquainted with is very strange behavior.

It’s also perfectly acceptable to never dance with him again. Although in class, that might be a bit awkward since you still rotate to each other.

But there’s absolutely no reason to have to put up with that. If it happens again, then I would advise to speak up to him directly as that would get his attention.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
He’s just not as advanced as he thinks he is. It’s all ego. But him lashing out like that is crossing a line that shouldn’t be tolerated.

As for notifying an instructor about his behavior, you could bring it up outside of class, though moreso as an outlet to vent rather than to expect change. Teachers don’t have control over what happens outside of class. This is something that goes beyond dancing. Very rarely do people shout at their dance partners and to do it with someone you are acquainted with is very strange behavior.

It’s also perfectly acceptable to never dance with him again. Although in class, that might be a bit awkward since you still rotate to each other.

But there’s absolutely no reason to have to put up with that. If it happens again, then I would advise to speak up to him directly as that would get his attention.
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Thanks Chris - really sound advice! Will see how it goes tomorrow at the next session.

Fingers crossed!
 
Smarties said:
and if he asks me to dance socially again? I hardly ever reject a dance, but I feel I have a good reason to?
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Don't even consider dancing with him again. And don't engage if he asks for an explanation. What an arse.

In a class it's easier to include him in the rotations however if he gives you any sort of trouble then get away from him and tell the teacher you can't include him in your rotations.
 
In such situations one of the best things to do is to tell the person directly how their behavior made you feel, as simply and directly as possible, rather than going to a third person or saying nothing.

Something like: When you shouted at me and yanked me around, I felt upset, shocked and humiliated (and it hurt my shoulders to be yanked like that). Please don't do that again with any dancer.

Of course, if the behavior persists, then for the good of the scene (especially newbies) someone with authority (instructor, promoter) should know this is happening.
 
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Smarties said:
Hi everyone,

Just wanted to get the forum’s opinion on an issue I had at my last social dance.
I’ve recently joined a local salsa community (around 50 people on an average night) and have really been enjoying myself - especially getting back into dancing since COVID lockdowns.

I’m an advanced female dancer, and have been social dancing for around 7 years. I also quite enjoy leading as well as following, hence split my time at socials around 50:50 dancing with men and women.

I’ve recently gotten to know members of the advanced class reasonably well (there are usually around 10 students in a class) however there is one lead who I personally think has been quite rude to me. He first seemed to take issue with the fact that I enjoy leading other ladies, and asked me why I would want to do that. I was a bit taken aback and didn’t really say much (we were mid-dance)

Last week however, he asked me to dance and everything was going well - however he tried to lead a particular move which was a bit confusing for me to follow. He then proceeded to yell at me “Oh COME ON” and then started shouting 123, 567 whilst yanking me quite painfully into the move (I think it was something as simple as back to back, but just a very odd lead).

I was genuinely mortified by the experience, and luckily for me - the music slowed down for a few bars, which the lead took to be the end of the song, and he just walked off and left me on the floor.

We’ve danced a few times before, and I always try and make the effort to make it enjoyable for both of us - I’m predominantly a Cuban dancer, and he prefers crossbody (the class is meant to be Cuban) and I have found his lead to be quite rough at times - but have largely ignored it. However I feel he really did cross a line last week.

I’ve never had a lead become so angry at me in all my years of dancing, and it truly was very unpleasant to be humiliated like that. I consider myself a friendly and approachable dancer who dances with leads and follows of all levels, hence I was quite upset to be treated that way.

(
Sorry for the essay!
I would really appreciate your advice on how to handle the group class (especially if it’s quite small) and if he asks me to dance socially again? I hardly ever reject a dance, but I feel I have a good reason to?

Also do you think this behaviour is something I should quietly notify to the instructor? I’m really keen to avoid any drama as it’s a very small scene.

Many thanks in advance :)
Click to expand...
He's a T!+. I assume he drives a very large car and parks it in his tiny garage to make himself feel marginally better about himself.

If he asks why you lead woman the answer is"Mind your f$$$ing business" or "the women were complaining that they need someone who actually knows what they're doing.".

In regards to him screaming "Come on!"... Well....
There is an instructor I know that (according to a few of my better follow friends) makes the "sigh" noise when they miss his called or flub a move during a SOCIAL dance. They won't dance with him anymore. Others have said, however, that he is great, smooth, comfortable, etc. I guess it's different based on expectations. To me that is stupid. Especially if they are the more advanced dancers in your town. Put him on your DNA list. He doesn't deserve to dance with you.

As for going to the instructor, if it's a. Social dance than there is no point. If in class he is criticizing you, the instructor would notice and probably say something.
 
Social dance is first a non verbal communication : if the lead cannot find a common ground with the follow quickly, his fault, period. Dance should be safe and enjoyable : if you cannot follow a move, what the matter ? Both should just enjoy the mistake and continue the communication roleplay. The lead can keep things simple and make a great dance, but that is an advanced level imo.

If the guy don't know or cannot lead any salsa style "basic" (cuban, on1, on2, cali, chacha, son...), he is definitly NOT an advanced dancer, not even an intermediate one. In any case, no matter the level of the lead/follow nor the miscommunication, his behaviour is unacceptable : you should put him on the eternal blacklist and maybe wait to see if he improves after some years.
 
Smarties said:
Last week however, he asked me to dance and everything was going well - however he tried to lead a particular move which was a bit confusing for me to follow. He then proceeded to yell at me “Oh COME ON” and then started shouting 123, 567 whilst yanking me quite painfully into the move (I think it was something as simple as back to back, but just a very odd lead).
Click to expand...
I dare to say that all of my higher-level friends would leave him right on the dancefloor and walk away. This is absolutely unacceptable both in class and social. If he asks again in social I would tell him we don't match well. I think some of my friends would actually tell him "no because you yelled at me and yanked me." Is he behaving ok when in class? If not then I would notify the instructor. In a similar situation (smelly guy) I simply quit and joined a different class but I guess in a small community this is not an option.
 
I don't understand guys that so determined to make some moves happen. I never repeat a failed move attempt unless the girl says "try again". I am a quitter, if my lead didn't make it happen, quit it right away, especially dancing sensual bachata.
 
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