Should white people use Orishas in social dancing?

jamiefoxer said:
ON a personal note, where I live, there is a group of Green Goes who do Orisha dancing and they are ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. They are wrong, their movements are wrong and their English-accented "chants" and hoops/hollers in broken Spanish and imitation Lucumi Yoruba is just an ABSOLUTE JOKE. I've never understood that need from North Americans to copy other people's cultures and just"grab what the like" and discard the rest. If you are not an Ifa/Orisha practitioner, why even appropriate other's cultural or musical dances/artforms? The dances and the drumming are not designed for public spectacle (though they can beshowcased in publicevents). They are ultimately drummings in appeasement of the Orishas...it's an offering..an Ebo. It's something sacred. Why grab from that so you can incorporate some "catchy" dance move for your next routine? That's what offends me.
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Doesn't surprise me.
 
A little while ago Rodrigo Cortazar interviewed Tito Ortos on his instagram dance school channel. The topic of the interview was competitions and Tito gave some opinions about the use of orishas in competition routines. I understood him to stay that the movements, if used, should be in response to the music and that there should be sensitivity to the fact that these movements have religious significance. (He did give credit, though, to the improved range of motion that study of these movements did lend to some dancers.) I mostly agree with his take and found the interview very interesting. I would just go further and explicitly state that I believe that there are sacred parts of culture that one should not attempt to appropriate for commercial consumption. Religious acts easily fall into that category for me. I personally tend to shy away from Afro-Cuban classes that are more religious in nature. My goal is to learn about and highlight the African essence of the salsa dance without necessarily delving into a spiritual practice.

Should white people dance bachata sensual? I understand that this is a tongue-in-cheek response. But, I do want to point out that bachata sensual is, for all intents and purposes, a White dance. It is a White European (Spanish) interpretation of a mostly Black Dominican dance. The people who make the most money from teaching bachata sensual and the people who dance it the most are White.
 
dancingmaquina said:
A little while ago Rodrigo Cortazar interviewed Tito Ortos on his instagram dance school channel. The topic of the interview was competitions and Tito gave some opinions about the use of orishas in competition routines. I understood him to stay that the movements, if used, should be in response to the music and that there should be sensitivity to the fact that these movements have religious significance. (He did give credit, though, to the improved range of motion that study of these movements did lend to some dancers.) I mostly agree with his take and found the interview very interesting. I would just go further and explicitly state that I believe that there are sacred parts of culture that one should not attempt to appropriate for commercial consumption. Religious acts easily fall into that category for me. I personally tend to shy away from Afro-Cuban classes that are more religious in nature. My goal is to learn about and highlight the African essence of the salsa dance without necessarily delving into a spiritual practice.

Should white people dance bachata sensual? I understand that this is a tongue-in-cheek response. But, I do want to point out that bachata sensual is, for all intents and purposes, a White dance. It is a White European (Spanish) interpretation of a mostly Black Dominican dance. The people who make the most money from teaching bachata sensual and the people who dance it the most are White.
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Should they use the concepts "bachata" and "latin dance" to market themselves and their events?
 
TikiTaka said:
Should they use the concepts "bachata" and "latin dance" to market themselves and their events?
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Latin dance? No way. It's a European dance and these people need to own that. Bachata? Sensual bachata or bachata sensual yes, but just bachata no. There needs to be some degree of respect for the original (or real) version.
 
TikiTaka said:
Should they use the concepts "bachata" and "latin dance" to market themselves and their events?
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I agree with DJ Yuca that if the term "bachata" is used it needs a qualifier, such as "sensual," to distinguish it from the original. "Latin dance" works for me. It's general enough to encompass the mash-up of zouk and the bachata basic that sensual bachata appears to be to me.
 
Well sensual bachata certainly has Latin roots - but ultimately it was created by Europeans in Europe, so it is not a Latin dance.
 
DJ Yuca said:
Well sensual bachata certainly has Latin roots - but ultimately it was created by Europeans in Europe, so it is not a Latin dance.
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Maybe they should call it Iberian dance instead. But then they might risk that nobody will find the dance sensual and exotic anymore :p
 
dancingmaquina said:
A little while ago Rodrigo Cortazar interviewed Tito Ortos on his instagram dance school channel. The topic of the interview was competitions and Tito gave some opinions about the use of orishas in competition routines. I understood him to stay that the movements, if used, should be in response to the music and that there should be sensitivity to the fact that these movements have religious significance. (He did give credit, though, to the improved range of motion that study of these movements did lend to some dancers.) I mostly agree with his take and found the interview very interesting. I would just go further and explicitly state that I believe that there are sacred parts of culture that one should not attempt to appropriate for commercial consumption. Religious acts easily fall into that category for me. I personally tend to shy away from Afro-Cuban classes that are more religious in nature. My goal is to learn about and highlight the African essence of the salsa dance without necessarily delving into a spiritual practice.

Should white people dance bachata sensual? I understand that this is a tongue-in-cheek response. But, I do want to point out that bachata sensual is, for all intents and purposes, a White dance. It is a White European (Spanish) interpretation of a mostly Black Dominican dance. The people who make the most money from teaching bachata sensual and the people who dance it the most are White.
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I've been b!tching abou this for ever. I find it disrespectful. Especially for linear dancers that don't redpect alot of cuban dances and musical history. As I've said before, what if I prostrated my self towards mecca ad prayed to Allah during a shine section?
 
1derpalm said:
I've been b!tching abou this for ever. I find it disrespectful. Especially for linear dancers that don't redpect alot of cuban dances and musical history.
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In my experience linear dancers have more respect for Cuban dances and musical history in some ways than 'Cuban salsa' dancers do. In other ways the reverse is true. Either way, I can't see how dropping orishas in a linear salsa dance is more disrespectful than dropping orishas in a casino dance.
 
jamiefoxer said:
ON a personal note, where I live, there is a group of Green Goes who do Orisha dancing and they are ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. They are wrong, their movements are wrong and their English-accented "chants" and hoops/hollers in broken Spanish and imitation Lucumi Yoruba is just an ABSOLUTE JOKE. I've never understood that need from North Americans to copy other people's cultures and just"grab what the like" and discard the rest. If you are not an Ifa/Orisha practitioner, why even appropriate other's cultural or musical dances/artforms? The dances and the drumming are not designed for public spectacle (though they can beshowcased in publicevents). They are ultimately drummings in appeasement of the Orishas...it's an offering..an Ebo. It's something sacred. Why grab from that so you can incorporate some "catchy" dance move for your next routine? That's what offends me.
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Yep. Probably casineros trying to show how authentic they are.

In my own scene I've witnessed it go from SALSA casino to having "Lucumi" singers at an event. Awkward!!!

And don't get me started on the gringos in grass skirts and red bandanas waving swords around o_O
 
dancingmaquina said:
It is on the account for his academy: @rodrigoasya.rcacademy. You have to scroll down a bit to find it. There is also a recent interview with Frankie Martinez that was interesting as well!
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Yes, both interviews are in Spanish. Sadly for me. Would have been nice to see the cliffnotes.
 
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