Seattle Salsa Congress 2014 Roll Call

TurqoiseHexagon said:
So I see that Maykel Fonts has been replaced by Frankie Martinez on the website. Visa issues? I was looking forward to taking his workshops. Oh well, I'll check out FM. Hope they post the workshop schedule soon so I can plan the rest of my time in Seattle.
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Not visa issues. Maykel Fonts is an Italian citizen. I am surprised he was booked. He has been working full time on "Dance with the stars Italia" and has been to busy even to visit his dad and 2 year old baby half sister in Minneapolis.
 
Today Frankie Martinez talked for the first hour and a half out of a two hour footwork class, what's the record?
Not totally uninteresting, but still...
 
Salsa Student said:
Today Frankie Martinez talked for the first hour and a half out of a two hour footwork class, what's the record?
Not totally uninteresting, but still...
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Well how else do you expect him to teach if not by talking? :)

What did he talk about? His classes in NY are only an hour so the only time I've heard him talk for longer than that in a class has been during his yearly "special workshops" which are two hours. Personally I learned a ton from those workshops (as I do in his classes) because the way he distills his knowledge about dance (and music) is always spot on, so I have a really hard time imagining that was not the case at the workshop you attended. That's why I'm curious why you seem so disappointed. The reason I think he's such a good teacher is because his teaching is as much about "movement" as it is about "dance philosophy and understanding" -- it sounds like perhaps you were looking for more "movement" :) but maybe if you digest what he talked about a little more you can take away some beneficial knowledge?
 
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Sabrosura said:
That's why I'm curious why you seem so disappointed.
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Because so much of what he talked about was, well, filler. There were a couple of zen-like "well, maybe that'll make sense to me after I've been dancing for another decade" kind of things (which unfortunately escape me now), but mostly it was about his impressions of his martial arts teacher, telling us that we need to listen to music, and an analogy of us dancing with beginners with him dancing with just about anybody else, etc. (I might be over paraphrasing with the last one, Snow Dancer was also there and can correct me if I'm wrong).

He talked about his responsibility to give the student what they need versus what they wanted. I've only had two dance teachers that have earned the right to do that with me, I have to say Frankie so far hasn't.
 
Counting both days of workshops and the time during breaks, Frankie talked for about 3.5 hours this weekend. If you're a regular Frankie student, the content was mostly repeated. (I only go to his classes a few times a year, and for me it was mostly repeated material.) If you never heard Frankie before, it could completely change how you view the dance (or turn you off Frankie completely.) I think he was assuming this would be a west coast audience unfamiliar with him.
 
Desafinado said:
If you never heard Frankie before, it could completely change how you view the dance (or turn you off Frankie completely.) I think he was assuming this would be a west coast audience unfamiliar with him.
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I took a workshop from Frankie when he came out to Seattle last year. IIRC, he talked about 3/4 of an hour with the last 10 or 15 minutes more specifically about dancing, which was a little more manageable.
 
Salsa Student said:
He talked about his responsibility to give the student what they need versus what they wanted. I've only had two dance teachers that have earned the right to do that with me, I have to say Frankie so far hasn't.
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I don't think FM or any other instructor would earn it in one or two workshops. For that to happen, you will need an extended period of regular training with any instructor. In that sense may be it is a tad bit unfair to compare him with the other two dance teachers?

I have taken lessons with FM only once in my life. I didn't listen to his talk since I was not there, but watched the last 15 minutes of his workshop on Sunday. Most of what he says resonates with what my instructor use to tell me when I was a regular student.

With a very little awareness of what he said, I do agree that what he says is very useful. Rarely do the other instructors give the kind of outlook he gives. I think that kind of awareness as as useful for one's growth as a dancer as the learning actual techniques and movement is. Wouldn't you agree with that? Every year I discover new things about my dancing that I didn't realize the previous year. Sometimes it can help when someone else who has been down that road before me can tell how the road looks like, rather than discovering it on my own. Both approaches work, the latter is much harder and longer.

I only dance for fun. I don't listen to the music when I am not dancing. I don't am not that passionate about getting trained in roots of the dance and seek out a lot more things. I will do it if it is convenient but I won't go out of my way. Even then, I do find what FM or ET and others have to say about dancing immensely interesting and useful. Of course, if you have heard it before, then it can sound a repetition. I observed that most people in his class and other workshops were beginners or new comers (less than two or three years of dance experience). For those it must have benefited if they cared to listen.
 
I enjoyed the congress and had fun time dancing. The people were friendlier than the other big congresses. The music consistently very good. It was the best I have heard in any congress I have attended so far. Only thing that irritated me was DJ's habit of speaking over the music too often. Something I rarely seen in other places. Most of the time I hardly got what the DJ was saying over the music. Not having live band worked. Though I think having a good live band always adds to the experience (no matter how much we ***** about the long songs some bands play).

The dancing level was good, if you sought out the right kind of followers. This was the first time I saw followers chasing FM or other celebrity dancers. In bigger congresses there are far too many things happening that you don't notice it as much or it isn't apparent. As I said, it was interesting (and amusing) to see that dozen or so followers transfixed on 3 or 4 celebrity leaders to ask for the next dance. As soon as the song ended, I saw three or four followers pounce on FM. The poor guy had to escape. He was dancing with total beginner and smiling. It was the first time I actually saw him social dance. He wasn't anything like we see on the youtube video. He seemed fairly accessible and was talking with students for almost half an hour after his Saturday workshop, in the hallway. At one point on Sunday night, he was almost alone standing in the lobby outside the dancing area, after people had taken their pics with him and all. Thomas also came out social dancing on Sunday night (he might have on earlier nights but I might not have been around). Johnny Vasquez was around too, mingling with people (and perhaps hitting on one girl). Compare to other big congresses, in Seattle I think the big names were able to mix up with average dancers more.

As I mentioned the on1 dancers (the advance ones), who came out on Saturday night, almost caused me headache watching them do their spin spin spin, etc. I have seen on1 dancers in LA strut their stuff and they are fun to watch. Even if I won't like dancing that way. Had I not known better, watching the Saturday night on1 leaders, would have given me a very negative impression of on1 :)

There seem to be more people from Vancouver and Canada in general than from Seattle.

And to make a sexist comment - the girls in Seattle congress were far better than in the SF's last weekend :p

I wish all the congress organizers start the shows at 6 so they finish off by 9. This congress was as guilty of shows finishing past midnight. Though the good thing was the dancing went on till 6am in the morning.

The best part was able to meet the SFers and put a face to the names often seen. Nothing beats that!
 
Offbeat said:
I don't think FM or any other instructor would earn it in one or two workshops. For that to happen, you will need an extended period of regular training with any instructor. In that sense may be it is a tad bit unfair to compare him with the other two dance teachers?
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Hey, Frankie brought up the whole implicit trust thing so I can only assume he was asking us for it. Seems fair in that case to compare him to the other two teachers I've let shape me, both of whom immediately gave me small, concrete things that I could work on to improve my dancing. I'm not arrogant enough to think that I don't have many small, concrete things still to work on and since my time (and right now motivation) is limited, I'd prefer to work on those rather than some zen principles that may or may not pay off a few years from now.

Offbeat said:
With a very little awareness of what he said, I do agree that what he says is very useful.
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o_O

Ok, fine, a lot of people really like Frankie's presentation, doesn't really work for me.

BTW, I do have his Exploring the Afro-Latin Funk and I try to make it through the first half (which for me seems to be the most useful stuff) once or twice a week. Again, small concrete things that I can actually see make a difference.
 
Salsa Student said:
o_O

Ok, fine, a lot of people really like Frankie's presentation, doesn't really work for me.

BTW, I do have his Exploring the Afro-Latin Funk and I try to make it through the first half (which for me seems to be the most useful stuff) once or twice a week. Again, small concrete things that I can actually see make a difference.
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I guess you take what works for you and leave the rest aside for future or not :)

All of us have different way of what we like to absorb and what works for us. In that sense, what works for me may not work for you or the rest.
 
Salsa Student said:
Hey, Frankie brought up the whole implicit trust thing so I can only assume he was asking us for it. Seems fair in that case to compare him to the other two teachers I've let shape me, both of whom immediately gave me small, concrete things that I could work on to improve my dancing. I'm not arrogant enough to think that I don't have many small, concrete things still to work on and since my time (and right now motivation) is limited, I'd prefer to work on those rather than some zen principles that may or may not pay off a few years from now.


o_O

Ok, fine, a lot of people really like Frankie's presentation, doesn't really work for me.

BTW, I do have his Exploring the Afro-Latin Funk and I try to make it through the first half (which for me seems to be the most useful stuff) once or twice a week. Again, small concrete things that I can actually see make a difference.
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I get you, I really do. You had certain expectations and the class turned out differently. Frankie excels at teaching movement and it's completely understandable that you wanted more of that. And in fact Frankie himself does pay a lot of attention to the "little" things in his classes--he is eagle eyed, he will notice for example if a follow across the room has tense arms in 1 milisecond and mention that to the class (he never names names, but if you pay attetion you'll know he's refering to you).

But here's the thing: it is precisely because almost no instructor talks about the "big things", the "zen things", that we have the unfortunate "salsa as sport", "salsa = turn patterns" phenomenon in the worldwide salsa scene.

And the thing is, when you start thinking about and increasing your understanding of the big things, it makes learning the "little things" not only easier but also "better" and "more complete" because you are learning to see the top-bottom picture, not just bottom-top. As much as we want the dance learning process to be quick and clear cut, with salsa it just doesn't work like that. Quick does not equal good, and the learning process is rarely clear cut because Latin dancing is so complex. Frankie says that his classes are like a "full service restaurant" while other classes are like a "fast food restaurant"--I think it's a great analogy.

To give another comparison, there are beginners who have trouble finding the 1 (usually because they are not familiar enough with salsa music) and who want the instructor to give them a "quick technique" to fix that. Now while there may be such quick fixes, we all know that what will benefit that beginner the most in the long run is not a quick fix, but spending hours and hours listening to music so that they become intimately familiar with it, which will lead to not only finding the 1 but a whole host of other benefits because they are not just learning to count but are also starting to subconsciously understand the rhythm, how the different instruments play off each other, and eventually to "become one with the music" in their music. These things may never happen if, by contrast, the beginner just gets a quick fix and continues to view the music as nothing more than a metronome.

Now Frankie can talk about more simple big things or (like in his classes) more sophisticated big things. Given that it sounds like the level was pretty beginner-ish at the congress workshops (which he probably caught on to immediately) I gather that he may have focused on more essential big things rather than more sophisticated ones, which sounds like a wise choice, given the limited time inherent to congress workshops. Besides, even for an advanced dancer sometimes these "simple" things repeated are what they need to hear, as hearing them repeatedly or presented from a different perspective can help our understanding tremendously.
 
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Sabrosura said:
And in fact Frankie himself does pay a lot of attention to the "little" things in his classes--he is eagle eyed, he will notice for example if a follow across the room has tense arms in 1 milisecond and mention that to the class (he never names names, but if you pay attetion you'll know he's refering to you)..
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Agree. I seen him do that. I also seen some other instructors have similar ability to be eagled eye about mistakes that one person does in a crowd of students.
 
Offbeat said:
This was the first time I saw followers chasing FM or other celebrity dancers. In bigger congresses there are far too many things happening that you don't notice it as much or it isn't apparent. As I said, it was interesting (and amusing) to see that dozen or so followers transfixed on 3 or 4 celebrity leaders to ask for the next dance. As soon as the song ended, I saw three or four followers pounce on FM. The poor guy had to escape. !
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Yeah it's awesome watching this, we're all guilty of it to some level, leads as well. Should've seen what happened at the Vancouver Congress 2 years ago when Terry made his first appearance, the poor guy was knackered at the end of the night.
 
Sabrosura said:
And the thing is, when you start thinking about and increasing your understanding of the big things, it makes learning the "little things" not only easier but also "better" and "more complete" because you are learning to see the top-bottom picture, not just bottom-top.
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Actually both the instructors I mention talked about the "big things" too (although not in quite the zen like terms that Frankie does), but first they taught me small things that helped me that earned my confidence.

If someone asks me to trust them without first giving me good cause, I usually grab ahold of my wallet.:p
 
Everyone is right... :dancingbanana: , seriously though Sabs has a point in that he explains movement very well, but I've also been in a class where a trusted source mentioned to me that he chats a awful lot and gets away with it because he's frankie... I'm easy so as long as it's entertaining I'm good..
 
All this talk about zen makes me wonder: What IS the sound of one clave rapping?:-)

I went to both of Frankie's workshops, so I got all the hours of lecture. But having gone last year, that's what I expected. Even if some is repeated, I enjoy the talks. Sometimes we need to be reminded of things repetitively (at least I do). A couple points that stuck with me (paraphrased):

1. Becoming a good dancer won't solve all your problems... it won't make everyone like you.
2. People go to classes where the instructors just teach patterns, so they end up learning new moves to which they can dance badly.

Thinking of 2), I went to the Santo Rico "advanced" workshop afterwards where I learned new moves that I can do badly.:confused: Really, I don't understand this teaching method of rushing through things, then repeating them over and over without slowing down.

It was great to hang out with MAMBO_CEC and Offbeat again, and to finally meet Salsa Student. I'm a little burned out on salsa congresses, but Seattle is probably my favorite, and one I'll continue going to. Things I especially liked:

1. The longer workshops.
2. Having separate bachata and kizomba rooms
3. Instructors were out social dancing and hanging out.
4. Generally friendly vibe

But yes, the DJ's talking through the music was EXTREMELY annoying!:mad:
 
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