toan-hoang
Son
Please don't, I hate this super-extremely-subjective-none-quantifiable-unhelpful-means-different-things-to-different-people word...
Searching for Grace
- Thread starter toan-hoang
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Oliver Pineda fits in cheeky, rather than gracefull. right?
Depends. I have seen him dance flirty, cheeky, gracefully. Not necessarily at same time. There are many clips where his dancing appears to me quite graceful. The keyword is of course 'me'.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
Agreed. I think control of one's body (core muscles especially) is what drives the fluid and smooth movement that gives a dancer grace (along with good posture, the way one holds oneself). And the more control you have over your body, the more you can place accents and sharpness wherever you want in your dancing. Example of grace--fluidity, smoothness, as well as sharpness:
is it just me, or was there a playback speed problem with that clip? It seemed to be running too fast and looked really unnatural.
Not surprised
Agree with description but honestly didn't measure up to my idea of grace in dancing.This is what to me is graceful dancing:
Liked the less is more approach in this :
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
Runs fine on my computer, maybe letting it load first would help?
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
Not surprised
This is what to me is graceful dancing:
Liked the less is more approach in this :
Okay, he is graceful in most of his videos
but the reason I picked that one is because it's much harder to be smooth when you are dancing to fast music, yet he does it very nicely (in my opinion).
toan-hoang
Son
I think we agree on what the core concepts of Grace is, body control, fluidity, smoothness, the list goes on, but have you ever tried to work on one of these attributes required of a graceful dancer? and if, so how did you go about doing it? Any suggestions welcome e..g improve core strength = P90X...
sagitta
Changui
Grace and
I wouldn't use grace for salsa...not sure why...I would use "Flow" and I think that term encompasses "Sabor" and so I cannot start another thread.
sagitta
Changui
It has been mentioned before, I believe, that practicing movements makes one more fluid as one becomes more comfortable/proficient. The other aspect is what one moves to. I find that just playing the music as I go about my daily routine makes a difference. There are many elements of the music one can flow with as the subconscious mind knows what to anticipate.
Yupuhhuh
Changui
I really don't correlate grace with body control, I would more associate grace with comfort and ease in moving one's body rather than the control of it. For example I definitely wouldn't put grace in the category of accentuating lines ie the latin ballroom world, yes those lines are both beautiful and elegant, but graceful? Not necessarily so I would say. I think if anything, the antonyms of graceful are better suited for finding out what graceful is rather than the synonyms, also looking at words that one would use with graceful could be helpful, for instance effortless and graceful pair well together.
Good luck in your quest, it's probably not the easiest thing.
Good luck in your quest, it's probably not the easiest thing.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
Agree, and this is what I meant by control. You can't have comfort and ease of movement (what I called fluidity and smoothness) if you do not have the ability to control your body as you wish. To me the opposite of graceful would be the person who is throwing herself around in all directions when dancing because she doesn't have any control over her movements.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
I think one needs to both strengthen the core muscles through pilates, strength training, etc, but also to practice awareness of one's body and different muscles and what they do to control movements. Strength training alone would probably not be enough to achieve the kind of body control and agility a dancer seeks (thinking of bodybuilding types who for the most part lack any grace).
For practicing body awareness, in addition to isolations classes/exercises, personally I think that ballroom and ballet training help a lot. I am asked regularly by new dancers if I have done ballet because (they say) I have such a "graceful, elegant line". They are surprised when I say that I have not done any ballet. I have, however, done ballroom dancing for a couple of years (in Eastern Europe and the US) and I credit that type of training for teaching me a lot about body awareness and control, before I ever came into contact with Afro-Latin isolations training.
Another suggestion would be to take martial arts classes (karate, kung fu, etc.). The focus (in the beginning) is on slow, controlled movements and improving body awareness and control, so they complement dance training very well. Many excellent dancers have a martial arts background (Frankie for example).
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
I don't understand what you mean, sorry. There are older people who are graceful and others who are not, but the reason why they are/are not graceful is the same.
When I say "control" I am not referring to having super strength or being stiff.
Yupuhhuh
Changui
Well you said 'You can't have comfort and ease of movement (what I called fluidity and smoothness) if you do not have the ability to control your body as you wish.' I disagreed. For instance: athletes don't last past a certain age because they can't control their body as much as they were previously able to. So when you say control it must be under a different connotation than that which I'm under the impression control was meant to mean.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
To me grace implies elegance of movement (as well as fluidity, smoothness, ease of movement). And good ballroom dancers are certainly graceful, in my opinion.
I am not sure in which context you are using the word 'control' here. I think 'control' is being used more in a sense of 'balance'. Or in other words how do you 'control' your movement. What do you say about older folks who may have trouble controling their bodies and movement otherwise, but when they get on the dance floor you don't see it in their movements. I am sure we have seen examples of such.
I am conflicted about whether the core strenght contributes to gracefulness. I can argue from both sides. May be at the end of the day, grace can only be seen or felt by an observer and can't be defined. There have been many times I have sat simply amazed at the grace with which some old man or woman is dancing. Yet trying to break it down or figure out what makes them so good is extremely difficult. It is not one movement. It's how all their movements are coordinated. That is movement of arm or head isn't out of sync with movement of legs. But it is just not that. It is also how they might be smoothly moving (as oppose to gliding) across the floor.
salsamarty
Son
One of the first things that came to my mind when I read the OP is a good dance frame. The partners I consider graceful have a noticeable dance frame but you would hardly notice it when you look at them. They are light and fluid yet present and in control. It may be that gracefulness in a partner dance requires that exquisite dance connection we all seek. I would recognize it as graceful if I see it in the couple. Less so if only one partner was a standout in the dance.
On posture: I started working out with a trainer to, among other things, improve posture, strength and coordination. My stressful job had me hunching my shoulders. It has taken a year but I think I am much improved.
On posture: I started working out with a trainer to, among other things, improve posture, strength and coordination. My stressful job had me hunching my shoulders. It has taken a year but I think I am much improved.
Core strength is a prerequisite to so much movement that it shouldn't be underestimated, but you still have to know how to use it.