Searching for Grace

toan-hoang

toan-hoang

Son
Hi All,

I have gone through various stages in my salsa evolution: hording movies -> hording shines -> working on musicality -> incorporating body movement -> hording knowledge...

The latest fad and challenge is how to become more graceful as a dancer. I found an interesting article here: http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Graceful. And now, a whole new journey begins as this is something that is not specific to Salsa but all dances in general.

I might be old fashioned, but there is magic when you see a dancer moving effortlessly, with that extra bit of quality, that extra bit of, well... Grace.

Is this something that other have actively looked for? worked on? and found? or even care about?
 
I like how in an article that tells you how to walk, how to talk, what to wear, how to wear it, how to sit and what makeup to wear, it concludes by saying "it's what's on the inside that counts".
 
i havent read the article yet but regarding moving effortlessly, i can say that its the best stage on any activity when you became competent and technically good enough. it happened to me while rowing and swimming. i can swim like i'm walking on the street effortlessly and i can keep doing it for 3km without feeling tired. its a great feeling. i wonder when i will achieve it when i'm dancing (and stg else as well :) )
 
Hmm ... are you sure you want to add grace to your list of dance qualities? In a recent dance peformance skills workshop I did I was picked up on and complimented on the graceful aspect of my dancing, but it was also pointed out that the desire to appear graceful can get in the way of full expression of emotion in dance. It was suggested I work on getting a bit more raunch and dirt into my performances o_O.

(btw this was bellydancing and in particular relating to performing)
 
snowflake said:
complimented on the graceful aspect of my dancing, but it was also pointed out that the desire to appear graceful can get in the way of full expression of emotion in dance. It was suggested I work on getting a bit more raunch and dirt into my performances o_O.

(btw this was bellydancing and in particular relating to performing)
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Apples.. Oranges.. both are "round ", but look and taste different . The ultimate goal for ANY dancer, is to appear graceful, no matter the genre ( thats the one great asset , B/room develops ) .
 
I would add Feet to the list of What To Pay Attention To For Grace...the way feet feel on the ground, how they connect to the floor, how sensitive they are in driving and directing the body's motion, whether walking, standing, turning, stepping, pivoting... I don't think Grace is possible without feet that are "alive", flexible, strong, and very "awake".
 
toan-hoang said:
Is this something that other have actively looked for? worked on? and found? or even care about?
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I've been working on dancing more gracefully for a few years now. An area of focus has been improving my posture. I once saw a picture of myself dancing a bit slouched and didn't like what I saw. Since then, I've worked on standing straight and rolling back my shoulders. In addition to improving how the dance looks, I've found that doing these things has improved my frame and makes me feel more elegant. Other things that I think can help one dance more gracefully include moving fluidly (accelerating smoothly even when movement is meant to end sharply and gliding across the floor), moving with a purpose (i.e., no wasted movement), and creating aesthetically pleasing lines (e.g., by fully extending limbs when executing point shines or arm styling, articulating limb extensions, and creating symmetry with the follower).
 
GroovyMambo said:
. I once saw a picture of myself dancing a bit slouched and didn't like what I saw. Since then, I've worked on standing straight and rolling back my shoulders.
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Be VERY careful about the "top" line.. latin dance ( of this style , and T/A) is more about an embrace.; standing tall is good.. but.. overtly drawing back the shoulders, starts to give a more B/room type appearance .
 
How do you define 'grace' (in dancing)? What is it? Isn't it part of what is called 'sabor'?

I thought I knew what 'grace' was and could see it. But if I have to answer the question how to dance with 'grace', I am not so sure.
 
snowflake said:
Hmm ... are you sure you want to add grace to your list of dance qualities? In a recent dance peformance skills workshop I did I was picked up on and complimented on the graceful aspect of my dancing, but it was also pointed out that the desire to appear graceful can get in the way of full expression of emotion in dance. It was suggested I work on getting a bit more raunch and dirt into my performances o_O.

(btw this was bellydancing and in particular relating to performing)
Click to expand...

Does being graceful mean you cannot have expressions and emotion? I think quite the opposite, if you have grace in your movements you will be generally a lot cleaner in your movements, and all your expressions and emotions will be more visible...
 
GroovyMambo said:
I've been working on dancing more gracefully for a few years now. An area of focus has been improving my posture. I once saw a picture of myself dancing a bit slouched and didn't like what I saw. Since then, I've worked on standing straight and rolling back my shoulders. In addition to improving how the dance looks, I've found that doing these things has improved my frame and makes me feel more elegant. Other things that I think can help one dance more gracefully include moving fluidly (accelerating smoothly even when movement is meant to end sharply and gliding across the floor), moving with a purpose (i.e., no wasted movement), and creating aesthetically pleasing lines (e.g., by fully extending limbs when executing point shines or arm styling, articulating limb extensions, and creating symmetry with the follower).
Click to expand...

Posture has been something that I have been working on for years (it is one of those problems that can't be solved quickly), the frame is a good idea, how have you gone about working on your frame? is it just be more conscious of it? or have you taken classes i.e. ballroom or the alike.

With regards to fluidly, moving with a purpose and the other things you mentioned, I have mentally put this into my "attention to the little details" task, and have been filming myself and making small adjustments, but this process is time consuming, what was your results?
 
Offbeat said:
How do you define 'grace' (in dancing)? What is it? Isn't it part of what is called 'sabor'?
I thought I knew what 'grace' was and could see it. But if I have to answer the question how to dance with 'grace', I am not so sure.
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grace

   [greys] Show IPA noun, verb, graced,grac·ing.
noun
1.​
elegance or beauty of form, manner, motion, or action: Wewatched her skate with effortless grace across the ice.Synonyms: attractiveness, charm, gracefulness,comeliness, ease, lissomeness, fluidity. Antonyms: stiffness,ugliness, awkwardness, clumsiness; klutziness.


When you watch a dancer you can see that extra bit of quality, it if not about the moves, but the execution, how the dancers carries themselves etc.
I do not think this is the same as Sabor, but I don't think you can have Sabor without an element of grace in your dancing. I could be wrong in saying that if you focus on Sabor without grace you will generally look messy.
 
Nice topic. I think the word would mean different things to different people. Also, some people might well accentuate other characteristics like raunch, energy, technique or whatever and that would be the defining element to their dance (and their personality). It might well depend on mood and circumstance, too.

I don't think that we should all dance in similar ways, but adding a bit of something else is always good for opening us up more.
 
toan-hoang said:
Posture has been something that I have been working on for years (it is one of those problems that can't be solved quickly), the frame is a good idea, how have you gone about working on your frame? is it just be more conscious of it? or have you taken classes i.e. ballroom or the alike.
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I found the best thing for posture is strength training. Weighted back squat first and general core conditioning second. After that, my body want's to be straight and I find it much easier to learn correct posture.
 
toan-hoang said:
grace

   [greys] Show IPA noun, verb, graced,grac·ing.
noun

1.​
elegance or beauty of form, manner, motion, or action: Wewatched her skate with effortless grace across the ice.Synonyms: attractiveness, charm, gracefulness,comeliness, ease, lissomeness, fluidity. Antonyms: stiffness,ugliness, awkwardness, clumsiness; klutziness.


When you watch a dancer you can see that extra bit of quality, it if not about the moves, but the execution, how the dancers carries themselves etc.
I do not think this is the same as Sabor, but I don't think you can have Sabor without an element of grace in your dancing. I could be wrong in saying that if you focus on Sabor without grace you will generally look messy.
Click to expand...

I don't think quoting a dictionary helps :)

It is often easy to use words like "effortlessly grace across" than to explain what they exactly mean. Further can you teach someone to dance gracefully? I suspect the answer is yes. But how ? You alluded to it being about execution. I agree. But then someone can execute flawlessly and correctly but without much grace, and yet the next person can do the same with grace. I think grace is not just about execution but also how you make it look. Because grace can only be observed from third person's perspective? Can you feel the 'grace' yourself when dancing?
 
Grace is a tough one to define. And certainly something that I admire. I'm thinking graceful is quiet or still. So in Salsa it would mean that each movement has a purpose? Maybe more subtle?

Maybe someone here could post some links to what they consider graceful. There were a couple of clips I recall thinking would fit. I'll see if I can track down one or two.

Hmmmm... maybe symmetry is part of grace..
 
terence said:
Be VERY careful about the "top" line.. latin dance ( of this style , and T/A) is more about an embrace.; standing tall is good.. but.. overtly drawing back the shoulders, starts to give a more B/room type appearance .
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I agree with your cautionary note. I dislike the "ballroom look" in Salsa. When I refer to rolling back the shoulders, I'm chiefly talking about good overall posture, not specifically pertaining to dancing, and definitely avoiding "puffing" the chest. I feel that rolling back the shoulders improves arm and shoulder mobility and helps stabilize the frame by correcting any bowing of the shoulder blades. This is something that was brought up to my attention by my fencing coach in college.
 
Lawndart said:
Grace is a tough one to define. And certainly something that I admire. I'm thinking graceful is quiet or still. So in Salsa it would mean that each movement has a purpose? Maybe more subtle?

Maybe someone here could post some links to what they consider graceful. There were a couple of clips I recall thinking would fit. I'll see if I can track down one or two.

Hmmmm... maybe symmetry is part of grace..
Click to expand...

Shaka Brown and Milton Cobo
I would also consider Frankie Martinez and Mouaze Konate
 
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