salsa shines -urgh

[nowhiteshoes]

hi have been dancing salsa 4 about 18 months. am int/adv but not yet advanced. my dancing is getting much better, getting alot more compliments from strangers + people ive not seen 4 a while. anyway my issue is that i can do alot of simple shines and in shine classes i pick up the shines well (with not bad styling, even if i do say so). but when it comes to the break in the songs for shines i get a stuck. do a few simple shines then panic and pray for the shine section 2 end (some girls insist on shining for whole precussion bit). i think its a bit of a self conscious thing, used to go to a technique class and can shoulder shimmy etc. sorry 4 long rant!

 

[sweavo]

my issue is that i can do a lot of simple shines and in shine classes i pick up the shines well (with not bad styling, even if i do say so). but when it comes to the break in the songs for shines i get a stuck. do a few simple shines then panic and pray for the shine section 2 end (some girls insist on shining for whole percussion bit). i think its a bit of a self conscious thing, used to go to a technique class and can shoulder shimmy etc. sorry 4 long rant!

Well I've been dancing 5 years and I blank every time I shine. I can usually only think of one move. A few thoughts for you:

1) Shines per se are like playing scales on an instrument. If you restrict your dancing to shine patterns you learned in classes, then you are playing a fisher-price piano that only does a major scale, not a real one. Let go and do what you feel.

2) Listen to latin music outside of the club. Learn to tap along to the rhythms on the wheel of your car or while washing up. Include stuff that's not very danceable. This will turn the music from being a timebase for your moves into a fuel-source for your inspiration, allowing (1) above to become much easier.

3) Shine a lot, for fun. Practice has a place, but so does play.

4) You're the leader. You decide when the shine section ends. If you get stressed on your own, pick her up and do patterns for a bit. If she INSISTS on shining for a whole percussion section, she's not being a good follower, though she may or may not have better musical interpretation, technique and/or repertoire than you. That said, I think it's great that you are sensitive to your follower's wishes... sure accommodate her, but don't destroy your own enjoyment for the sake of it.

You don't even need to work hard at this, just shift your attitude. Remember that one step and a shimmy with feeling trumps a diamond step with added syncopations every time. Hmm... shine poker, there's a thought...

 

[MacMoto]

Welcome to SF, nowhiteshoes!

For your shine problem, I see two options...

1)
It sounds like you are a guy? So you are the leader and you are in control. Don't shine. Just don't let her go. If you give her a free spin, collect her as soon as possible and go into the next move. I know a few leaders who never ever go into shines. It may be frustrating to girls who love to shine, but there are also girls who hate shines so it's fine.

2)
If you want to be able to shine, practice practice practice. Play some funky music at home and dance (ideally in front of a large mirror). Do the patterns taught in shine classes if you like, or watch YouTube clips of your favourite dancers doing shines and pick up things you like the look of, but don't worry about doing everything exactly the same. Patterns are taught so you have material to adapt and make your own. Get used to the feel of moving to the music. Experiement and have fun. Do something goofy for a laugh.

 

[AndrewD]

Welcome to the forums nowhiteshoes

I’ve just begun to find my feet (if you’ll excuse the expression) with shines and stuff. A lot of it is confidence but the other side is that most ladies who like to shine will be better at it than you. They will have taken styling classes and I’ve found that when instructors teach weird and wonderful footwork it is often directed at followers.
With this in mind I generally accept that what I’m doing is pretty immaterial – if people are watching, they will be looking at her rather than me – I believe this is the philosophy behind shines.

Anyway, as ever Mac and Sweavo give excellent advice, but here are my tips.

Don’t be afraid of repetition.
It doesn’t have to be complicated – 9 times out of 10 if I go in to a simple rhumba step, the lady copies me almost immediately. Another simple thing to do is just swap places, by circling around your partner – if you circle using the forward slide it looks pretty cool.
Maintain eye contact and make sure you’re appreciative of her efforts – my mouth hit the floor the first time a lady threw an ultra slow 8 beat body roll at me :shock: the masochist in me likes it when my partner makes me feel like a beginner.
Try to feel and represent the music – easier said than done, but don’t worry about marking beats with steps, use your arms, hips, head, go with the flow.
As others have said practice by just grooving to some tunes at home – try and escape the shackles of ordinary footwork patterns and project how you feel. There are no mistakes when you shine.

My problem is the opposite I like to break hold, but lots of my regular partners don’t

 

[sweavo]

thanks for the welcomes/feedback. one sort of shine i like to do to finisg is an open no lead cross body (on1) where i open123 and point down the channel then the girl steps 567 with no lead. only started this 2 days ago and got a few smiles .

heh. try it miming holding the door for her

i guess cos it was a bit playful. ps i am a guy. also some girls literally insist on shining. say if i do cross-body open with my left/girls right hand in contact, other side open some girls refuse my right hand to shine when id planned something on 3 (by beat 8 i realized i wasnt getting it back!). lst nite tried to freestyle in shines, didnt want to do a procession of taught shines. hopefully confidence will improve

Either you're not offering clearly enough (put it in her line of sight!) or IMO this is a mistake by the follower - either of technique or of etiquette.

 

[AndrewD]

Another thing - if a follower really likes to shine and you're not up for it...

T stance.

Let her do all the work

 

[terence]

Personally, from a teachers viewpoint-- i dont belive that " shines " in and of themselves, should necessarily be your criteria for good partnership .

In the grand scheme of things, time wise, you havent even scratched the surface .

The "free " form of any dance , will possibly elude you for much longer than your current involvement. ( some never feel comfortable, and thats ok. ) It is not the be all and end all, of dance .

But if its what you desire-- then patience and time, may resolve the problem .

 

[sagitta]

YOu don't need to do too much when shining. Really. I often find, myself, that when I let a girl go to shine she tends to do the same sorts of things over and over as if she has no clue so I usually pick her up quick. THere is the big step left foot, right foot hits left variants. There is the suzie q variants. Then one can add a hop skip to those sorts of steps. Then there is, as someone already mentioned the simple guaganco (sp?) step from side to side...One can do the mambo step (high stepping such as from cuba...) Let's see... Couple free spins, comb one's hair.... Oh when doing the large step on 1 with left foot..one get get close to the follower and make a kissing sound...
salsa basic-slot style...do a series of small steps...almost like shuffling...strike a pose in response to something the follower does. Circle bnehind the follower and do naughty things. Clap ones hands... large step back as I alreday mentioned large step forwards. Large step forwards triple step like cha cha cha....

http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=1945&highlight=shines gives a couple links to some shine video clips.

Plenty to do. It's more about being comfortable I think. If you aren't than there is no need to do shines at all. It's after all the leader's choice.

 

[terence]

'In the grand scheme of things, time wise, you havent even scratched the surface . '

ive only just found the surface! havent scratched it yet!!

THATS funny !! :lol: :lol:

 

[Flex]

Personally, I think occasional short shines (from two bars up to, say, eight bars) are nice at suitable break points in the dance. But long shines are an admission of defeat in a partner dance, unless they are well choreographed beforehand. For if both partners are doing long shines and they are not choreographed, you don't look like you're dancing together at all..... And if only one partner is shining while the other is stuck in a T-stance, it gets awful dull after a many bars.

Unless you're a real natural at it (which I for one am not) I wouldn't recommend 'letting yourself go' and 'doing what comes naturally'. I think you can work at it, and it doesn't take much work.

Three approaches I'd recommend, all for shortish shines:

- working on four or five choreographed shines of your own so that you can do them as second nature, without freezing. Advantages: you don't have to think; and you can work out and practice some really neat stuff. Disadvantages: if you dance them a lot with the same partners, they will become predictable and dull.

- building up a repertoire of known, named shine steps until they're second nature. Pick one or two particular ones to start your shines with, so you don't freeze. Advantages: you can mix and match to build a shine of whatever length. Disadvantages: more work to practice, can be predictable even if the order in which you mix them varies.

- choreographing a shine together with a partner and practising it with her beforehand. Advantages: looks like you are really dancing together, and you can do some really cool stuff while mirroring each other, or doing call-and-response type shines. Disadvantages: you can't do them with unpractised partners.

The second approach, using building blocks of known shine patterns, can have the additional advantage that your partner is likely to know the patterns also. If she is quick on the uptake, she can mirror your shines, which looks nice and togetherly.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.

 

[chr]

building up a repertoire of known, named shine steps until they're second nature. Pick one or two particular ones to start your shines with, so you don't freeze. Advantages: you can mix and match to build a shine of whatever length. Disadvantages: more work to practice, can be predictable even if the order in which you mix them varies.

Actually, my approach is exactly the opposite: I spend some time in front of the mirror and try to interpret the music for frequently played songs, and try to select what looks decent. When I am on the dance floor I hope that it does not look much worse than it was in the practice. I never really spent time on learning any shine, but I am not very advance anyways...

OTOH, I agree with you that shines (especially long ones) somehow defeat the purpose of social dancing. Still, there are certain partners with whom shining can be immense fun.

 

[Offbeat]

Still, there are certain partners with whom shining can be immense fun.

Unless I am looking and she's doing all the shines, it's not really much fun I am among "less shines the better" kind of dancer for three reasons: I am not too good at it, I am too lazy to put in effort to practice the shines, I don't enjoy solo footwork too much in social dancing.

Though I have to admit during certain sections of the music (especially with a live band), you don't feel like CBL, inside turn, etc fits the music. Especially during fast percussion section. Then I simply do free style dancing/shine/footwork (which means no fix pattern, no counting my steps, no styling, and just moving the way I feel like to the music). May not be prettiest but at least I am comfortable and enjoying it

 

[irishgirl]

Another thing - if a follower really likes to shine and you're not up for it...

T stance.

Let her do all the work

i'm never dancing with you again

(well only if it was gonna be a reverse T- stance, forward i can forgive!)

Also, try copying what the girl does when she is shining, i copy the boy if i am lost and works out quite well for me a lot of the time

 

[Offbeat]

Also, try copying what the girl does when she is shining, i copy the boy if i am lost and works out quite well for me a lot of the time

I have that happen to me sometimes. The follower copying my shine/freestyle. I am thinking, I don't know the hell what I am doing and how can you ! :lol:

 

[AndrewD]

Another thing - if a follower really likes to shine and you're not up for it...

T stance.

Let her do all the work

i'm never dancing with you again

(well only if it was gonna be a reverse T- stance, forward i can forgive!)

Ha!
But I like to shine - so this shouldn't be a problem

 

[sweavo]

But long shines are an admission of defeat in a partner dance, unless they are well choreographed beforehand.

I used to feel this way, but try watching lots of Rumba guaguanco on youtube. Then you will see that you can still partner dance without touching. When shines are working with this dynamic - a constant trading of territory and of body language - it feels to me a much higher form of partner dancing than a physical lead and follow.

 

[sagitta]

And many don't know. But are happy to learn....it's how one passes it on. I'm starting to watch those youtube videos and doing a teeny teeny bit of rumba while freestyling....

 

[Salsamakossa]

Sweavo,

Curiosity kicks in... Do you have some good example clips bookmarked?

But long shines are an admission of defeat in a partner dance, unless they are well choreographed beforehand.

I used to feel this way, but try watching lots of Rumba guaguanco on youtube. Then you will see that you can still partner dance without touching. When shines are working with this dynamic - a constant trading of territory and of body language - it feels to me a much higher form of partner dancing than a physical lead and follow.

 

[sweavo]

Sweavo,

Curiosity kicks in... Do you have some good example clips bookmarked?

But long shines are an admission of defeat in a partner dance, unless they are well choreographed beforehand.

I used to feel this way, but try watching lots of Rumba guaguanco on youtube. Then you will see that you can still partner dance without touching. When shines are working with this dynamic - a constant trading of territory and of body language - it feels to me a much higher form of partner dancing than a physical lead and follow.

Hmm, couldn't find any of the ones I recall, but found http://youtube.com/watch?v=-kOqLHjAZkY while looking . Probably really offensive to guaguanco purists, but I think it's a great modernization. The point being (1) the vacuano - where he "sends male energy" and she has to cover up or redirect the energy, and (2) partly as a result of (1) there is intense communication between both dancers throughout.

 

[Flex]

Sweavo,

Curiosity kicks in... Do you have some good example clips bookmarked?

Hmm, couldn't find any of the ones I recall, but found http://youtube.com/watch?v=-kOqLHjAZkY while looking . Probably really offensive to guaguanco purists, but I think it's a great modernization.

Well, thanks for that. Always interesting. But didn't turn me on at all (in fact, bolstered my earlier view).

But I like the fact that between us, we all embrace many styles and preferences, nevertheless.