Salsa Scene in Seattle

Salsa Student said:
As far as follows go, yes Seattle has some very good follows. HOWEVER, Seattle has always been lead heavy and it's gotten worse in the last three or four years. Two to one lead/follow is pretty common, among the more experienced dancers it can be three or four to one. Those kind of imbalances affect people behavior, and I don't mean in a good way.
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I wonder (in a grumpy way) why certain areas get lead-heavy. You'd think some guys would give up, or that more women would be attracted. Portland also seems to have gotten that way lately, and I agree about the behavior change. Guys try to keep women dancing for multiple songs, so other guys get locked out. Some women only dance with the best-looking guys.
 
SnowDancer said:
I wonder (in a grumpy way) why certain areas get lead-heavy.
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The best explanation I've heard for Seattle is because it has so much software development going on here.
SnowDancer said:
You'd think some guys would give up, or that more women would be attracted.
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Some of the more experienced leads have largely given up on the Seattle scene and have started going up to Vancouver (which has pretty much a 1:1 ratio) on a regular basis. Others have started doing tango, which also has a more balanced ratio in Seattle.
I'm doing a little of both.
 
MAMBO_CEC said:
Scene in my opinion is very cliquey, with most dancers associated with one studio or another, and they tend to dance with people from the studio that they take classes from.
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This is a bummer and scene killer. I have heard from many non-regulars that our best weekly social night is snobbish and cliquey (for those that don't know, I am talking about San Francisco salsa scene and not Seattle). I don't attend it often. Since it started four years back, I had same impression and my dp would refuse to go there. But I am surprised that it has a reputation. Last three times I went, I danced with followers I had never seen before. I asked them if they came there regularly and their reply was that they don't since they heard it is a very snobbish place (their way of saying cliquey).

I hold the directors/instructors of dance teams squarely responsible for this (without mercy). People who tend to be cliquey are those who are beginners and have started dancing in past one to two years. The more experienced dancers in the group are not that cliquey but they tend to dance with their relatively newer members, reinforcing the sense of cliqueness. The team directors/instructors must drill into the heads of their team members that social dancing is not going out and sticking to each other. I am surprised these instructors don't give that kind of guidance and are so blind about it.

/Rant over

I have danced with some seattle followers at congresses and they were good. I am guessing only those who are performing or are good go to NY, LA or SF congresses. I did notice they would spend more time dancing with their team mates and you had to really break into the group to ask them for a dance. Ofcourse I haven't been to major congress in last two three years. The SF Congress last two years haven't had too many out of towners compared to 4-5 years back and before that.
 
Salsa Student said:
As far as follows go, yes Seattle has some very good follows. HOWEVER, Seattle has always been lead heavy and it's gotten worse in the last three or four years. Two to one lead/follow is pretty common, among the more experienced dancers it can be three or four to one. Those kind of imbalances affect people behavior, and I don't mean in a good way.
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Ditto for SF as well. Everything you said will remain true if you were to replace Seattle with SF :)

It is one of the reasons I feel less motivated to go out compared to before.

Salsa Student said:
The best explanation I've heard for Seattle is because it has so much software development going on here.
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That can't be enough explanation. What do the census figures say. Especially for single people between 20 to 30 or 20 to 40 age range? There must be enough ladies in other areas of work in Seattle.

If I look at census, San Jose and Silicon Valley is probably one area where the ratio is skewed (I think 52:48). SF as a city is not as skewed as Silicon Valley.

Most of the followers locally here happen to be in health care (Doctors and Nurses), tech, academics, teaching and legal. And then the rest like real estate, corporate job holders, retail, etc. The men are primarily tech, academics, legal, finance, management consultants, health care and a number of leads that come from blue collar professions.
 
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Offbeat said:
The team directors/instructors must drill into the heads of their team members that social dancing is not going out and sticking to each other. I am surprised these instructors don't give that kind of guidance and are so blind about it.
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I think some team directors actually encourage this as a way of ensuring "team loyalty", obviously some aren't concerned with the health of the social dance scene.
 
Salsa Student said:
I think some team directors actually encourage this as a way of ensuring "team loyalty", obviously some aren't concerned with the health of the social dance scene.
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I don't have any evidence, hear-say or otherwise, that the team directors are encouraging it. The team directors do come out social dancing. I have to give them that. That has always been one good thing in SF. I don't know if there are any undercurrents of rivalry but locally most team directors support events by other team directors, often show up and actively dance socially with everyone.
 
Offbeat said:
Ditto for SF as well. Everything you said will remain true if you were to replace Seattle with SF :)

It is one of the reasons I feel less motivated to go out compared to before.

That can't be enough explanation. What do the census figures say. Especially for single people between 20 to 30 or 20 to 40 age range? There must be enough ladies in other areas of work in Seattle.
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Off-topic, but here's my theory:

Women often go dancing for the feeling of connection. But a lot of guys like salsa because they see it as sport-like, with the goal of learning lots of technical moves. I've definitely been guilty of this. When I browse the dance floor, I see a lot, maybe the majority of couples, where the lead is whipping the woman around over and over, and she's doing her best to keep up. Now many women like the challenge of this, but not enough to keep the scene evenly balanced. Meanwhile, other dance scenes, where smooth leading is emphasized, tend to get at least as many followers as leads. These would include tango, blues, and WCS, from what I've observed.

An odd data point: There's going to be a kizomba 'boot camp' this weekend in Portland, and it looks like it's going to be at least 2-1 follower heavy. And this is a dance we've been calling 'dry humping'!
 
SnowDancer said:
An odd data point: There's going to be a kizomba 'boot camp' this weekend in Portland, and it looks like it's going to be at least 2-1 follower heavy. And this is a dance we've been calling 'dry humping'!
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I don't know. The new comers (ladies) by far prefer Bachata and Kizomba to Salsa. They enjoy salsa dancing but then they ask me if I dance Bachata or Kizomba. When I say yes, they are like where can they go for Bachata or Kizomba dancing. I use to chalk them up being easier dances, but that doesn't seem to be reason for their popularity with the girls. Just shows how little we men understand the ladies :D

I recently went out Kizomba dancing with a girl, I randomly met at the snobbish salsa social I described in the other post. She was visiting from a different country for a few days. She really captured the essence of Kizomba dancing! I had similar experiences dancing A/Tango, Salsa or Bachata with others. But not with Kizomba till recently!

P.S. - Ohh btw compared to all other dances (except A/Tango), the Salsa followers here in SF act like princesses :p

P.S.S - In Salsa the beginners/relative new to the scene have hangups and those who have been around are friendlier. In A/Tango it is reverse, the beginners are friendlier but the longer they stay the more snobbish they become!
 
SnowDancer said:
Off-topic, but here's my theory:

Women often go dancing for the feeling of connection. But a lot of guys like salsa because they see it as sport-like, with the goal of learning lots of technical moves. I've definitely been guilty of this. When I browse the dance floor, I see a lot, maybe the majority of couples, where the lead is whipping the woman around over and over, and she's doing her best to keep up. Now many women like the challenge of this, but not enough to keep the scene evenly balanced. Meanwhile, other dance scenes, where smooth leading is emphasized, tend to get at least as many followers as leads. These would include tango, blues, and WCS, from what I've observed.
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Just as leads from Seattle go up to Vancouver, we get a fair number of follows from Vancouver coming down to Seattle. The general consensus from the Vancouver follows that I've talked to is that they consider the Seattle leads to be better than the Vancouver leads (in case I've offended any Vancouver leads, let me say that there are always exceptions, I'm talking about general rules) and in Vancouver it's close to 1:1.

SnowDancer said:
An odd data point: There's going to be a kizomba 'boot camp' this weekend in Portland, and it looks like it's going to be at least 2-1 follower heavy. And this is a dance we've been calling 'dry humping'!
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I understand the kizomba scene in Seattle is sometimes follow heavy, although nowhere near 2:1.
 
A friend of mine will be in Settle this weekend, shes not sure if she will have time to get some mambo & cha cha in, but on the off chance she does, where should I tell her to go? She's not much for bachata (tolerates it), and something of an on2 snob... @MAMBO_CEC ?
 
MAMBO_CEC said:
We have a small Cuban scene that more or less keep themselves to themselves. Cuban and Linear almost never interact. Our Bachata and Kizomba scenes are small but growing and are always linked somewhat to the salsa scene!!

Lots of dance teams, especially ladies teams, seems like people are more interested in performing than social dancing.

Seattle is still predominately On1, but there is a growing On2 scene, more follows can dance On2 than leads. Depending on what event you go to, Seattle can feel lead heavy sometimes!! Although you do see a lot of potential leads just hanging out or having a drink. Other SFers who have an opinion on the Seattle scene in 2014, please feel free to contribute!!!!
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So where would I find out about Cuban salsa dancing? I am think of visiting Seattle over x/mas and new years. And is mambo Pica pica an on2 dance scene?
 
alvinthethird said:
A friend of mine will be in Settle this weekend, shes not sure if she will have time to get some mambo & cha cha in, but on the off chance she does, where should I tell her to go? She's not much for bachata (tolerates it), and something of an on2 snob... @MAMBO_CEC ?
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AVS night is Saturday Night at the Century Ballroom
https://www.facebook.com/AVSnights
Sunday night is a bit of a crapshoot, but I would recommend: The Corbu Lounge
 
Hmmm... so I am risking going as a leader? Maybe I should dress in drag and dance as a follower? ;) I would be ok as a follower and following as long as I do not wear heels - seriously. So it looks as if salsa seattle might be the place for me due to the cuban salsa going on there. Interesting you guys also have mentioned the Tuesday salsa/bachata practice there as an option. As places can be cliquey according to you guys then spending time there might make sense so people get to know me in the short time I am visiting....Mambo Pica Pica at the Underground is something I am also considering.

I also think it would be nice to meet up some fellow sfers while I am visiting. Perhaps at one of the dances I mentioned above if my dates work out, or even for coffee/tea....Still haven't got my ticket but am thinking probably over x'mas and new years. Message me and I would be happy to exchange phone numbers.
 
sagitta said:
Hmmm... so I am risking going as a leader? Maybe I should dress in drag and dance as a follower? ;) I would be ok as a follower and following as long as I do not wear heels - seriously. So it looks as if salsa seattle might be the place for me due to the cuban salsa going on there. Interesting you guys also have mentioned the Tuesday salsa/bachata practice there as an option. As places can be cliquey according to you guys then spending time there might make sense so people get to know me in the short time I am visiting....Mambo Pica Pica at the Underground is something I am also considering.

I also think it would be nice to meet up some fellow sfers while I am visiting. Perhaps at one of the dances I mentioned above if my dates work out, or even for coffee/tea....Still haven't got my ticket but am thinking probably over x'mas and new years. Message me and I would be happy to exchange phone numbers.
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Yes it is always nice to meet SFers, don't worry, we'll introduce you to all the follows, I can't promise anything for Cuban, but for linear, the world is your Lobster!!! I look forward to seeing you, we also have the AVS winter gala on the 27th, We'll adopt you into our clique!!! Looking forward to meeting one of the long time SF members!!! Will PM you with info!!
 
Honestly, for a lead the only place in Seattle I would recommend would be Mambo Pica Pica. The next one is on the 28th (the day after the December AVS) so you could easily do both and make your own comparison.
 
alvinthethird said:
A friend of mine will be in Settle this weekend, shes not sure if she will have time to get some mambo & cha cha in, but on the off chance she does, where should I tell her to go? She's not much for bachata (tolerates it), and something of an on2 snob... @MAMBO_CEC ?
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I wouldn't go out with high expectations this weekend, I think people might be danced-out after the congress last weekend. AVS will have a team from Colombia perform and hang out (still in town after the congress, where they were one of the highlights) so that may bring some people in. The action gets going kinda late, not worth going before 11 pm or so.
 
Salsa Student said:
Honestly, for a lead the only place in Seattle I would recommend would be Mambo Pica Pica. The next one is on the 28th (the day after the December AVS) so you could easily do both and make your own comparison.
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Thanks. I will try and do both and see what they are like. But given that Mambo_CEC said I would be introduced to people I am thinking with that I should have a great time. I do want to do AVS at Century Ballroom as it is a known name. It seems anytime I mention dancing in general everyone mentions Century Ballroom, even my non-dancing cousins who mentioned Century as a place I might want to check out.
 
sagitta said:
Thanks. I will try and do both and see what they are like. But given that Mambo_CEC said I would be introduced to people I am thinking with that I should have a great time. I do want to do AVS at Century Ballroom as it is a known name. It seems anytime I mention dancing in general everyone mentions Century Ballroom, even my non-dancing cousins who mentioned Century as a place I might want to check out.
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HI Sagitta, in addition to Century Ballroom's AVS there is a Cuban event at one of the local studio's called SalsanSeattle:
https://www.facebook.com/events/361511154010428/?ref_dashboard_filter=upcoming
also you might need to refer to:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/SeattleSalsaTonight/
Lets you know where people are dancing and at what events!
Mambo_Cec always tries to hook up our SF visitors from out of town!!, as I said before, looking forward to seeing you, one of the original SF members.
 
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