As a person who started in exclusively-on2 school without even knowing on1 existed, I never thought on2 is somehow harder to start with. IMO, switching is hard regardless of what you've started with, my on1 (learned purely in the socials) is still noticeably worse.
Salsa open diary
- Thread starter MacMoto
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How did it feel when you learned most of the linear salsa world out there dances on1?
I remember I didn't like to discover that many people dance cuban style other than I learned linear, so salsa seemed more complicated than expected.
Not completely true for where I live. I would estimate it at 30/70 for Amsterdam, with on2 growing in recent years. International festivals are predominantly on2 as well, from my experience.
But to answer the question, I guess I was mostly fine with it. I learned to always ask "on1 or on2" at the beginning of the dance, and I do my best to follow whatever my lead does, without being snobbish about timing. A little surprising thing was that a few on1 leads felt comfortable trying their on2 with me, so I guess we all learned new things in this journey
This completely right. It makes both practical sense. We always had local schools that are on2 only. Therefore beginners start with on2. Other cities along the west coast have it too.
Honestly I never heard that wrt beginners. I have heard all sorts of reasons on why on2 is more difficult than on1. We have posts on that. Most of us on2 dancers don’t believe it is harder than on1. Switching from either will always be a challenge due to muscle memory. May be recognizing two can be challenge but many will say if you can recognize one, then why not two.
To what? Sensual ?
that he would lose irrespective of on1 or on2 
No, to other salsa dance schools. Maybe there are no other salsa schools in that small town. Because as a beginner you want to be compatible to other dancers in your scene. Teacher saying "on2 is cool somewhere else" doesn't convince beginners when most dance different in their scene.To what? Sensual ?
Back then I continued with linear salsa despite having encounters with cuban dancing style, because majority in my city danced linear. If I would have found out my school is exotic and all others teach different I would probably have switched.
That sounds nice. In my hometown I am the one and only male on2 dancer (except instructors, but they don't go out locally and only go to festivals if invited & paid). Here are also only two on2 girls which only occasionally have time to go to festivals. To be the best on2 leader at home out of 1 dancers is between tragic and comic. It causes problems: first I need to always travel if I want to find soul mates, second I have the lonesome wolf syndrome having no travel partners: and arriving alone at big festivals means you stay alone. Tbh other dances have started to become alluring to escape my dilemma.
To what? Sensual ?
Everything will lose to Sensual in those small towns. I'm surprised that an On2 only school can thrive in the Czech Republic, as even Prague has struggled with growing a Salsa On2 scene. An On2 only school usually does not sound interesting to those living in villages. That owner is ballsy.
I can't see how it can succeed unless he's runnning Cuban/Sensual classes concurrently.
Both followers and leads rushing to do anything and everything but get solid basics down is a real curse. My scene is terrible for it, even some of the teachers need to work on their fundamentals.
Recently someone on reddit pointed out why a social dancefloor can feel so unpleasant to many and I thought about it and find truth in it: this environment is inherently chaotic. Even on your local dancefloor the people you meet are random and the person you had great dances with last time doesn't show up anymore for the next months, for unknown reasons. No problem as there is another person you have great dances with but that one also doesn't show up anymore the next months, for unknown reasons. That person over there, only five meters away, you want to ask for the next dance for sure gets asked before by some other person suddenly jumping in from the side. Each conversation gets interrupted, no chance to get to a normal ending. Some favourite dance partners you meet on the way to the restroom, but you never get a dance with them. If you succeed to get a dance with a beloved dance partner the DJ may play a weird song. Dozens or even hundreds of people each trying to grab the most attractive one as next dance partner create a chaos of people jumping from all sides on each other.
On lucky days it can be a chain of random great dances, on bad days it's a chain of dances which never happened.
If one prefers conversations with a clear beginning and ending (like in movies where a conversation never gets interrupted), if one likes a coherent linear plot where you see a person and then get in interaction with this one, then the social dancefloor feels like a chaotic hell better to avoid. On the other side if chaos is regarded as inspiring then it may well lead to surprising results which otherwise wouldn't have happened.
On lucky days it can be a chain of random great dances, on bad days it's a chain of dances which never happened.
If one prefers conversations with a clear beginning and ending (like in movies where a conversation never gets interrupted), if one likes a coherent linear plot where you see a person and then get in interaction with this one, then the social dancefloor feels like a chaotic hell better to avoid. On the other side if chaos is regarded as inspiring then it may well lead to surprising results which otherwise wouldn't have happened.
IMO, the chaos is part of the appeal of Salsa when starting out.
Anything can happen.
When I think back to the glory days, it really was chaos and I loved every second of it.
Unpleasant is ascribing an emotion to something that eventually equalizes and brings greater pleasure.
There is also inherent safety when doing something you love.
But you'd have to stick through it to find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and many don't.
Very crowded. Hot and stuffy (and in winter). Mostly beginners. A number of friendly beginners I 'danced' with who definitely have potential and are clearly working hard on developing timing. However, they take up a lot of space and don't account for surrounding slots, so leads I was dancing with were getting knocked over (it happened three times), without the culprits even seeming to realise what they had done. Experienced leads getting a powerful knock and barely staying on their feet. Quiet relief when the floor started to empty out a little and you could enjoy dances. The band played until well after midnight, which is unusual for the Sunday night social.
That lovely lead who seemed to be a Cuban-linear hybrid who took a few counts to adjust to what he sensed was my timing, and threw in plenty of fun steps and incredible shines and musicality. Despite the fact that I missed some of his leads and worried I was holding him back, he was full of compliments at the end, as were onlookers, even though I exclaimed to them "But I missed a couple of his leads!"
That lovely lead who seemed to be a Cuban-linear hybrid who took a few counts to adjust to what he sensed was my timing, and threw in plenty of fun steps and incredible shines and musicality. Despite the fact that I missed some of his leads and worried I was holding him back, he was full of compliments at the end, as were onlookers, even though I exclaimed to them "But I missed a couple of his leads!"
This is all true and not surprising. From my experience of dancing locally, the bigger the scene and bigger the crowd at local club/social, less you feel above. When the scene shrinks, you experience the above chaos more. That was one reason I started attending festivals. The local experience has changed every 5 years (for worse). A large part of it is far less people are entering salsa compared to 2000s. You can attribute it to bachata, social media, etc. But I do not see people taking up bachata today in the same volume as they were taking up salsa in 2000s. Scenes in respective European countries could be different.
I always say dance life of average salsa dancer is about 5 years. Then other priorities take over and they may not be as dedicated or focus on dancing part. If those 5 years coincide or overlap with salsa social dancing at its peak, you will enjoy it the most.
Which then brings us festivals. Because they attract the enthusiasts, there is more predictability. Less of above chaos. Also dancing time is more but compressed over three days. It also means you are more likely to find that person you like to dance with. Everyone is there for dancing so other non-dancing distractions matter less. It also means you can have conversations during non-dancing hours. There is far more serendipity at work with so many people gathered at the same place for a duration of the weekend.
Now compare that to equally good social but which happens once a week. So you will be going to dancing over three weeks (compared to consecutive three days of festival). Also each social will be of shorter duration than a festival evening or afternoon.
A certain level of chaos is always going to be part of social dance floor. It gives the dance floor its social pulse. A sterile environment will not give you that dopamine hit you get from a night out social dancing.
Hence opportunities for at least two and ideally three socials a week makes a big difference.
Interesting comment.
But makes sense that someone would experience more chaos in a smaller scene.
The unstable nature of a smaller scene introduces more variance.
for local socials it makes sense to call/message people before you go. especially if you go to foreign country/city. for festivals of course you can do it with some people (arrange months ahead that you'll both be there). but to expand your horizons you need to spend time (sometimes days for me) to find these people, befriend them, figure out their dancing preferences, learn names, etc. For me often 1 festival is not enough time to do all that and I need to restart. But I also don't invest too much time, usually couple sentences between dances where I'll mishear or forget answer to questions, etc. In local parties you have not 95% unknown people, but 95% known, so if you match with someone new, you can spend few songs talking to them.
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I don't have good answer to this. I used to ask for the name, connect at FB, then figure out the rest in messages over time, so by next festival I already have some understanding of the person. But now kids use Instagram, FB is abandoned. I'm not sure. Need to ask for phone numbers? (WhatsApp) Americans do that to hook up. I don't feel like exchanging phone numbers with someone I've just met.
In last 2 festivals I did acquire few new favorite dancers where we had many good dances, I approximately remember names. So next time, I'll just say hi! But I didn't get any contact info from them. I can of course ask some common acquaintances.
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sorry for rambling, social skill issues. help.
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I don't have good answer to this. I used to ask for the name, connect at FB, then figure out the rest in messages over time, so by next festival I already have some understanding of the person. But now kids use Instagram, FB is abandoned. I'm not sure. Need to ask for phone numbers? (WhatsApp) Americans do that to hook up. I don't feel like exchanging phone numbers with someone I've just met.
In last 2 festivals I did acquire few new favorite dancers where we had many good dances, I approximately remember names. So next time, I'll just say hi! But I didn't get any contact info from them. I can of course ask some common acquaintances.
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sorry for rambling, social skill issues. help.
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Watching videos of people dancing Salsa in their local scenes is cool. I see that in order to have a local scene, you should probably have a dedicated DJ for it. Having a dedicated school (even a small one) helps a lot too. And seeing so many people I know trying to promote salsa in their home town is heartwarming.
Even in cities where the scene looks dire, I still see people alive and kicking trying their best to keep Salsa alive despite not making much profit.
Now that my local scene is essentially dead for Salsa, I'm out of dancing and it's just going to keep getting worse judging by the direction our city is going in (towards hell)
Salsa is stilll alive, but only because I keep it alive in my head.
Even in cities where the scene looks dire, I still see people alive and kicking trying their best to keep Salsa alive despite not making much profit.
Now that my local scene is essentially dead for Salsa, I'm out of dancing and it's just going to keep getting worse judging by the direction our city is going in (towards hell)
Salsa is stilll alive, but only because I keep it alive in my head.
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Sadly smaller scenes have been taken over by Sensual Bachata
1derpalm
Son Montuno
And divisions because on every small group wins heats at congresses so they start teaching. Not saying it's bad, but then anobbiness happens
Yep. Or at least where I am it's SBK which mostly means few people get good at any style because they're spread way too thin trying to do everything all at once, often with no fundamentals.
Zoukchata is now making in roads. There was an insta reel that went viral of a follower in sensual bachata injuring her neck quite dramatically because of the lead pushing her into exaggerated neck rolls etc, so I fear the worst.
Happening on my scene. I am also trying to teach, mostly because I know the base level of knowledge and skill is NOT there in my scene and it shows.
I'm having absolutely no success because I'm not really in the right clique and because no one wants to hear they need to go back and work on their basics. But oh my god they really need to go back and work on their basics, even half the teachers.
Maybe I need to invent zouksensuabasicfluence.
1derpalm
Son Montuno
Senzoukurbizlambachatalsa-chá
My scene suffers from small scene syndrome but is also dictated by a strong desire to keep the status quo.
Discovering new music, teaching good basics and producing good dancers are things not among the status quo.
Discovering new music, teaching good basics and producing good dancers are things not among the status quo.