Last night was very crowded. Cherry in the top, in one song I got hit from three different sides in one song and my partner almost twice! The fourth side had two good leads so that was the only safe one. The floor craft is atrocious and very few actually take any steps according to the music.
Salsa open diary
- Thread starter MacMoto
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Yogalholic
Changui
I can't help myself asking what's your homonym's nickname?
"Boring Jason"?
"Creepy Jason"?
"Sex symbol Jason"?
I can tell you now that mentality is at odds with the typical EU festival go-er.
In the EU, most high level dancers choose fesivals based on the number of friends they know who will also go to the same festival.
When I attend a festival, the first question people ask me at the end is “where are you going to next?”. People are already making mental notes about where their friends and favorite dancers will be next.
This is why so many people already know each other when you attend an event in the EU. It isn’t by chance that so many good dancers went to the same event. Europeans love hanging with their friends.
A festival with mostly beginners or unknown people is seen as risky and will be avoided by the top level dancers. Even if that event has top tier DJs and artists, if social dancers don’t know anyone else going, they won’t go either.
I don’t know if this is the same or not in the U.S. I’d assume not. But in EU, festivals that are popular among the top social dancers, have very few beginners, especially in cities that don’t have a thriving Salsa scene (which is basically ALL of them)
In the EU/UK, I only know two cities with healthy Salsa scenes. The rest suck or are average at best. So festivals are always crammed with the same people, especially in Central/East Europe. Then you have the marathons, which are like one giant family of dancers. Even big congresses promote “family” in their name, such as Berlin.
Magic is the perfect example of a bunch of good dancers who all know each other, getting together in one place. I suspect the only beginners will be local. Eveyone else coming from abroad has heard of this festival and know what to expect, so mainly the good dancers come. Plus it’s a pain to commute to Ljubljana so only hardcore Salsa dancers will make th trip.
If I say, “Josh” will be there, EVERYONE in the EU knows who I’m talking about. Even though there are maybe a million Josh’s in the world, there’s only one people think about in Salsa if you are in the EU/UK. In the U.S or on other continents, Josh will mean nothing to them.
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I agree that floorcraft is a big issue. For this reason alone (big crowds), I’m glad I didn’t go. If I had been there, I would have spent 100% of my time in the Romantica room. Even the daytime socials looked packed, which would not work for me.
Some friends asked me why I don’t like Magic very much and I said because it’s too crowded. They looked at me like I had two heads. “Crowded?”
Yes, it’s CROWDED. You don’t need 5000 people for an event to be crowded. 750-1000 people is enough to reach critical mass.
If you can’t find space to dance during an Afternoon social, then that event is crowded.
I went to the very first edition of Magic back in 2015 and that event was perfect. Not too crowded.
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The Magic parties have been nice parties, but definitely not the best parties I've ever been to, and I haven't been getting a staggering number of dances. I've been leaving early because it gets too crowded. You simply can't get dances any more as you can't be seen. I was getting dances as I started chasing, although sometimes you'd see a lead who looked like they would match you well, then suddenly they weren't there, lost among the sea. I also wait to hear the song properly and get a sense of whether it's a good one to dance to before asking. There were some weird songs. A couple of times I had to reassure a lead you could physically see trying to catch the music that it was a difficult song to lead, and don't stress. I think I'll skip the afternoon again - it simply sounds too crowded. I'll do the usual turn up early in the evening and have a few hours dancing before the crush. I grew up on the small floors in Osaka and Tokyo - Japanese dancers know how to dance in crowded spaces and I'm accustomed to getting a sense of where the pairs around you are going to be stepping. Here I've had a few challenging experiences dancing next to show pony couples and being quire shocked at their lack of consideration for the slots of those around them.
The leads I have danced with - you're all gorgeous and make me melt with the accents!
The leads I have danced with - you're all gorgeous and make me melt with the accents!
We had discussed all these differences pre-covid. In the USA dancers don't go to the festivals. That stopped around early 2010s and then too it was only couple of festivals a year. Many USA metros had good salsa scene till COVID. It is routine for someone from SF to go to LA for one of the bigger social. We routinely get people from LA, Portland and Seattle at one of our bigger socials. People sometimes will also go to NYC for a weekend.
Lack of local social scenes causes good dancers to seek out EU festivals and the distance isn't a big barrier. At most you are talking two hours flight non stop.
In terms of quality of dancing at Magic this year, I would say that it is half of what was at the SF Congress in Nov and the music is probably ten times worse.
Sure people want to know where you are going next. Very similar to how people ask which social others are going to. I have been asked many times in EU and if I say I am not attending certain popular festival then there are obvious disappointing reactions. If you don't attend at a regular cadence, there is also a out of sight out of mind aspect. It has been easier to reconnect, but that is cashing in on connections from before the COVID. EU also appears to be star struck/celebrity prone.
There is one major difference. At socials if there is a new face and he/she is a good dancer the news spreads fast. At the festivals due to sheer volume of people it takes a lot more time and the level of the person has to be very high.
This year’s Magic event was mostly to re-connect with old friends since it’s the first time being back at full capacity in 4 years (since last year people were still avoiding going to festivals).
I was basically only looking forward to meeting/talking/eating with the people I knew but expected that the dancing wouldn’t be great due to the crowds and lack of dance space in the daytime socials.
Hmm.. I think the appeal of celebrities is trending downwards. Celebrity hunting is definitely not as big as it once was. The feeling I get is that more and more people are going to festivals for the socializing aspect, but not necessarily to watch/dance with celebrities.
Workshops are still a thing, though, especially with big name stars.
Another reason I can’t stand big crowds at festivals. It’s nearly impossible to pick out individuals in the crowd unless you have eagle vision.
Though this is what marathons are for.. You have ample time to discover and then dance multiple times with the same, new people
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This is frequent in a large crowded hall like Magic. You can very easily lose track of the people. The best place to get dances is either the middle third of the floor or the first third of the floor. At the peak (around 2am - 3am), it doesn't matter where you are, dances can be had anywhere.
Earlier in the night the floor is follower heavy and especially the area you mention to be dancing in. Generally two lines get formed. One to the back of the wall and other where people are standing infront of those against the wall. The latter have higher chances of getting asked. Also see my discussion with @Chris_Yannick. It not only allows to the dancers dancing near the stage area. Most of the women around you are known faces to many leaders. It may not be apparent. When a leader is making a decision on whom to ask, the part of least resistance is to ask someone they have danced with before.
The best way to break the ice is indeed to ask the leaders that you want to dance with. You are doing the right thing. Also, the longer you are seen dancing, the more you will get asked
Yes, that is a problem. This weekend the DJs are playing a lot of weird or unusual songs who aren't really for dancing. People don't wait to properly hear which song it is before starting the dance.
I suggest not. For sheer fun, the afternoon socials are consistently better than night dancing. Across all the festivals and Magic is no exception. Also the first hour is not that crowded I think. They also have a second overflow room. I want aware of it yesterday. That should be far less crowded. The afternoon socials are more casual and friendlier. Generally the music is also better. Though yesterday afternoon music was disappointing.
Yes this is my pet peeve. In EU very few have a good floorcraft. As a leader if you are trying to save your partner from some aggressive big move been done by neighboring couple, the followers can be slow to react to your urgency and like leaders many doing pay that much attention to what's happening around them. Though the guys are far more oblivious than the women. A vast number of guys in including experience ones don't know how to position themselves when leading their follower. They will often invade half the space of neighbouring couple. I have to use edges of my elbows and sometimes palm against their back to prevent them from getting into my line/path.
It boils down to lack of the technique.
This year’s Magic event was mostly to re-connect with old friends since it’s the first time being back at full capacity in 4 years (since last year people were still avoiding going to festivals).
I was basically only looking forward to meeting/talking/eating with the people I knew but expected that the dancing wouldn’t be great due to the crowds and lack of dance space in the daytime socials.
Hmm.. I think the appeal of celebrities is trending downwards. Celebrity hunting is definitely not as big as it once was. The feeling I get is that more and more people are going to festivals for the socializing aspect, but not necessarily to watch/dance with celebrities.
Workshops are still a thing, though, especially with big name stars.
Another reason I can’t stand big crowds at festivals. It’s nearly impossible to pick out individuals in the crowd unless you have eagle vision.
Though this is what marathons are for.. You have ample time to discover and then dance multiple times with the same, new people
As I have said repeatedly, marathons to me are like a big social that goes on forever
It is far easier to connect on the dance floor than to connect for eating/talking/meeting. The smaller the event is, the easier the latter gets. At larger festival you have to be an extrovert. Most people already have their groups formed like in the highschool before the event
I don’t think this is very feasible in big crowded festivals. By the time you can adequately hear what’s playing and decide you want to dance, the person you were eyeing will most likely be snagged up by another dancer.
IMO, it’s better to find the person you want to dance with first and then hope the song is also good.
When it comes to Salsa music, I’m not very picky. But I am picky when it comes to dance partners.
If the music is bad and the floor is crowded, then that’s my queue to sit out.
I will hear the music and then look around to see who is available. There are multiple good dancers to choose from or someone good walks in. Sometimes you l feel confident that the DJ is on the roll and will be playing songs you really want to dance to. Then it is easier to ask the target at the very first note. I think what sets good DJs apart from others is that they give you confidence that they won't disappoint you. If it is unusual song, it will fit with the type of music they are playing. Once a very good DJ I like was explaining many DJs want to show off their skills by playing obscure songs. He said it isn't DJs job to educate the dancers about unusual music. And he is a DJ that invests a lot in discovering hidden gems. I really like DJs who can read the crowd and tell a danceable song from non-danceable one (e.g. good to listen to but not dance). Also a good DJ will manage the flow.
May be it is me, I feel the songs being played are long. At home the DJs will generally cut a long song to 5 minutes. I think there are many songs that are 6 or 7 minutes long. So I start dancing after about a minute
I wonder if the leaders and followers process the music differently when dancing. Followers have less luxury to sit out bad music. They will have to turn down a lot of leaders and will get a reputation of being a snob.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
The leads I have danced with - you're all gorgeous and make me melt with the accents!
If you can, absolutely try to dance with Ouissam (Frenchie). One of my faves in Europe and one of the few who doesn't do the same boring stuff. He dances near the DJ booth (saw him there in a video last night) but is very friendly.
And if you want a laugh, tell him I (Cristina) told you to dance with him. He'll ask which Cristina as he knows several. Tell him: The Cristina in Paris who switched to kizomba -- and watch his face
(he loves dancing with me and was really excited when I moved to Paris, and then I switched to kiz and he hasn't forgiven me )
Bostontraitor
Son
can someone tell me how this is better than sensual bachata?
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Depending on who you ask, some will feel sorry for you if you can't achieve the "amazing connection" and orgamsms as in the video
Bostontraitor
Son
Depending on who you ask, some will feel sorry for you if you can't achieve the "amazing connection" and orgamsms as in the video
Honestly, some sensual bachata dancers can have amazing connection and the same varity of skills. The dance can be very entertaining. It's the batshit crazy people who do crazy stuff on the floor and no sense of musicality brought sensual bachata bad names.
I have no idea what Frenches are doing with kizomba, those dances and Tarraxo doesn't seem any different than crazy sensual bachata/zouk. I might just call Tarraxo or the kizomba style in the video I just quoted, dry humping with beats.
update:
In both Angola and Cape Verde, local African dances and music styles mixed with the Zouk. In fact, the Caribbean Zouk, the Haitian Kompa and the Semba are all components of what we now know as Kizomba.
now we know.
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1derpalm
Son Montuno
The thumbnail says Kompa. Kompa music most certainly is better than bachata sensual.
Kompa is better than kizomba. Not this video, mind you. When I watch people dance Kompa I'm reminded of kizomba (step very similar, with an undulation and sometimes a a wierd duck step onto the inside of foot) and merengue (slow relaxed turns).
From what I've gathered, Kompa is a predecessor of Zouk (Caribbean aka real actual Zouk).
1derpalm
Son Montuno
Just Jason. He is more stoic and.. normal than I.