Going back to work on my Rumba basics. I am re-watching parts of the Alberto Valdes Bases de Rumba DVD and trying to fill in those missing gaps in my technique.
Salsa open diary
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GentleDancer
Son
Although a linear dancer I went to a "noche de cuba" tonight, so lots of timba and people dancing casino. I knew beforehand I was not in the right place, but always interested I wanted to have a try and lockdown is approaching, so I go out to everything as long as it is still possible... Actually I learned also some cuban, but that was years ago and I never practiced it in social, so apart from DQN and Setenta I forgot it all. Could I survive with that? No, I couldn't. It's frightening how bad it works. Many times we got stuck because I intended a turn but my follower tried to turn in the opposite direction. In linear this would be the followers fault as she should not try to anticipate moves. But in casino I don't know: probably I broke the natural flow of direction several times. These constant misunderstandings made me feel like I had learned italian but spoke to some french people.
About once a year I happen to dance with a follower on the dancefloor where the mess is even bigger. Then I ask them where they come from and the answer is Colombia. They use to have a joyful mentality, so we have fun and can laugh about our misunderstandings. But they really must have a hard time living in europe - nobody here knows their dancing style. Like if nobody understands your language.
This is a real dancing babylon sometimes.
About once a year I happen to dance with a follower on the dancefloor where the mess is even bigger. Then I ask them where they come from and the answer is Colombia. They use to have a joyful mentality, so we have fun and can laugh about our misunderstandings. But they really must have a hard time living in europe - nobody here knows their dancing style. Like if nobody understands your language.
This is a real dancing babylon sometimes.
1derpalm
Son Montuno
All too familiar.
I generally tend to adapt my dancing to match the follower.
At the festival last weekend I switched to casino like dancing after two bars. The follower could follow that well but seemed to struggle with CBL and outside turn.
When dancing with Colombians and Venezuelans, I forgo my trained salsa type dancing. When they have a good rhythm it is fun to dance simple and max one or two turns. I have to do these on rare occasions. Not on nightly basis. But I still remember a few dances over the years which were awesome though only thing we did was probably the back rocksteps and whatever it is that they do. But they had a very good rhythm and body movement. You could tell they were dancing to the music.
Within NY style too, followers come in all forms and shapes when it comes to their dance style. Some are always on and like a lot of fast strong shines. Others can be chill. Yet others like improvisation. Some like to thrown in a lot of body movements and some are without it. I like that variety. It means I don't have to dance the same way all evening. Else it wouldn't get very boring.
At the festival last weekend I switched to casino like dancing after two bars. The follower could follow that well but seemed to struggle with CBL and outside turn.
When dancing with Colombians and Venezuelans, I forgo my trained salsa type dancing. When they have a good rhythm it is fun to dance simple and max one or two turns. I have to do these on rare occasions. Not on nightly basis. But I still remember a few dances over the years which were awesome though only thing we did was probably the back rocksteps and whatever it is that they do. But they had a very good rhythm and body movement. You could tell they were dancing to the music.
Within NY style too, followers come in all forms and shapes when it comes to their dance style. Some are always on and like a lot of fast strong shines. Others can be chill. Yet others like improvisation. Some like to thrown in a lot of body movements and some are without it. I like that variety. It means I don't have to dance the same way all evening. Else it wouldn't get very boring.
1derpalm
Son Montuno
I danced with a Latin american learned white women the other night. I had no problem adapting to her since she had really good rhythm and control of her own weight. She only did backpacks etc, even in closed position but was so consistent i was okay with it.
Been nursing an ankle sprain(or something like it) the last 3 weeks and so I haven't been able to train like I used to. Had to simplify my footwork and keep from flexing my foot too much (very hard to do when practicing). Today I woke up and my ankle hasn't felt this good in 3 weeks! Almost have my full range of motion back with limited pain. A few minutes of good, uninhibited dancing and my mood has totally changed for the better 
Bostontraitor
Son
This girl Amber, she's probably the best-looking girl that dance in my area. She's a mother, and a decent person (I've heard). You can imagine that everybody wanted to dance with her the night she came. I don't usually ask her for a dance. For two reasons 1) I don't usually go out my way to ask a girl for a dance. I have plenty of girls would dance with me each night. To get a dance with her, I need to run. not walk. 2)She and I, dance terribly together. It's a mystery.
So, one night, I walked up to her to ask for a dance. I believed that I wasn't her first choice at that moment. I said: "Can I have a dance? ...No? okay." I started to walk away. She was hesitating. She ended up not to dance with her first choice or me.
If it was a young girl in my city, she would be like: **** this guy. I have plenty guys to dance with.
Amber kept dancing with others the whole night. But every now and then, I could feel it, that she's waiting for me to ask for a dance. She would make herself available nearby me.
Finally, I asked her again. Then we had a terrible dance together again. You know what. it's called social dancing, sometimes you do it for the social; sometimes you do it for the dance.
So, one night, I walked up to her to ask for a dance. I believed that I wasn't her first choice at that moment. I said: "Can I have a dance? ...No? okay." I started to walk away. She was hesitating. She ended up not to dance with her first choice or me.
If it was a young girl in my city, she would be like: **** this guy. I have plenty guys to dance with.
Amber kept dancing with others the whole night. But every now and then, I could feel it, that she's waiting for me to ask for a dance. She would make herself available nearby me.
Finally, I asked her again. Then we had a terrible dance together again. You know what. it's called social dancing, sometimes you do it for the social; sometimes you do it for the dance.
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1derpalm
Son Montuno
I dance terribly with an instructor and a few of his students. I mean terribly. But he is universally considered good and I get compliments myself. That's life I guess lol.
GentleDancer
Son
You described the situation in detail, but nothing about why the dance itself failed. I suppose you both dance the same style (cuban or on1 or on2). But her body tension was different from what you like?
I try two times with a follower, and if doesn't work it's better to avoid a third time. Some girls look good with other dancers, but I can't connect with them.
Just last week I had this experience: I tried a second time with a good follower (I saw her on a dancing school website, she seems to work as assistant there - which often gives way to problematic behaviour: "Hey, I am advanced, you know!"). But it was quite bad again. She didn't look me in the eye, mostly looked on the ground, not one smile, which is awful. First she insisted in on2, which is very, very rare in my area, but that was saying to me: "Hey, I am advanced, you know - I hope you too?". I am not good in on2, so we quickly switched to on1, but even that did not work well. Having no connection I probably wasn't leading good, because I felt stressed (getting no look and no smile). But I know she was committing flaws as well, like that very typical one: during inside turn not letting her left arm fly so the lead can grab it. It is a typical mistake many followers do, that's why I discussed it with several female instructors, and they all said: yes, the lady should / must do this.
(You can see it here in this famous video of Terry: follower is doing it perfect at 0:28:
So this is a bad constellation to avoid: a snobby follower believing she is very good but not trying to bring in something into the dance of both. I will never ask that girl again, there are plenty of other good followers.
Bostontraitor
Son
I didn't mention the reason why i couldn't have a good dance with her, becaue we dance batchata usually. Figure you guys won't be interested in the details.
Both of you were right.
I have a few thoughts on why... body tension is actually a good way to describe it. She was on a performance team. I usually found those people have very "fake" connections if they don't have a good foundamental before they joined the team. She's also tall. I am 6'1. She's almost the same height as me if she wears her dance heels. She probably dance sensual batchata way more than the domanican style. But she didn't dance close to me which I adjusted to that, then she suddenly shifted her center of gravity to my side. It's kind of like tipping the scale. I almost fell because the counter weight was gone.
Mentally, I don't dance as normal as my other dances either. I don't know it is because she's too beautiful or i just have different rythem than hers. I believe I lost some of my confidence when i dance with her. I felt my lead was also weak in terms of being smooth and firm.
She looked good when she dance with others. She's not a bad dancer. I wasn't looking to impress her, just want to have a normal dance with her. But I failed.
I think both of us weren't happy about the dance with each other but we want to keep that social connection.
GentleDancer
Son
Hm, in a performance team AND beautiful makes a dangerous mix.
So she's too tall for most of the leaders: leading spins with a follower who's taller is a headache. I have a hard time understanding why they don't use lower shoes, but these are female reasons.
Recently I asked a girl who was sitting, and when she stood up: damn, she was about 15 cm higher than me (half foot)!
Never has happened to me before in more than 10 years dancing. My first impulse was to say "no!", but being polite I managed to fight through that dance. Later I looked: yes, she wore high heels, too. 
So she's too tall for most of the leaders: leading spins with a follower who's taller is a headache. I have a hard time understanding why they don't use lower shoes, but these are female reasons.
Recently I asked a girl who was sitting, and when she stood up: damn, she was about 15 cm higher than me (half foot)!
Never has happened to me before in more than 10 years dancing. My first impulse was to say "no!", but being polite I managed to fight through that dance. Later I looked: yes, she wore high heels, too. 
Spins maybe, leading turns is not a problem
Hope you are not using her real name
The name or identifying a person anyways doesn't add anything to the story.All dancers experience that with someone.
This is very normal way of dancing in this part of the world across the pond. As someone recently wrote in a post, the Latinas usually will dance without looking at you in the eye or smiling. I am not used to doing that either when dancing. I have to change it consciously when I dance in EU. There are many friendly dancers but smiling and looking in the eye is only occasional. Compared to that, in EU it is almost a routine thing to do.
GentleDancer
Son
Indeed? I don't remember that with latinas living here, but they may have changed during their time here. That girl I described wasn't latina.
Actually followers more or less have to look you into the face, as they have to be aware of what you are doing. By looking to the ground they cannot be really aware of what you are doing next. (In Salsa, because it is fast and has multiple turns etc. In Kizomba or Forro in closed position they can't see the man's eyes anyway and therefore even close them sometimes).
Long time I wondered why many followers stare like maniacs into my eyes - it can feel awkward when somebody stares at you like this longtime: "Is she falling in love with me or what happens to her?"
Then I started trying follower myself sometimes - it helps you understand better the follower, and it is fun. So I found out that I did the same thing: I stared into my leaders eyes. As a follower you do this automatically to see whats going to happen.Therefore strange to hear what you said about latinas.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
Actually followers more or less have to look you into the face, as they have to be aware of what you are doing. By looking to the ground they cannot be really aware of what you are doing next. (In Salsa, because it is fast and has multiple turns etc. In Kizomba or Forro in closed position they can't see the man's eyes anyway and therefore even close them sometimes).
Long time I wondered why many followers stare like maniacs into my eyes - it can feel awkward when somebody stares at you like this longtime: "Is she falling in love with me or what happens to her?"
I'm not sure looking at the eyes adds much information about the leading -- one of my instructors actually recommended looking toward the lead's chest to better understand what is being led, since that is where his movement originates (there is also an interesting lead-follow exercise where the follow puts her hand on the lead's chest and he leads her just through that). For me it's easy and natural to look towards the lead's chest since I am usually a bit shorter than most leads. But I look a lot at their face / eyes as well (more than chest usually), but that is more for connection rather than to help with following.
GentleDancer
Son
Viewing all those videos on Youtube you normally see a smiling follower looking into the leaders eyes, while the leader is looking downwards with a serious face because he is concentrating on the next moves. This sometimes feels as if the leader would not be enjoying as much as the follower. So I decided to try to look at my follower at least sometimes and give a smile, when I do an easy move and enjoy with her. Of course I forget it often, but I try to remember that from time to time.
Bostontraitor
Son
Hm, in a performance team AND beautiful makes a dangerous mix.
So she's too tall for most of the leaders: leading spins with a follower who's taller is a headache. I have a hard time understanding why they don't use lower shoes, but these are female reasons.
Recently I asked a girl who was sitting, and when she stood up: damn, she was about 15 cm higher than me (half foot)!
Where are all these Amazonian women? I guess I'm lucky in NYC
I might have exaggrate the fact that she's just 5'8" or 9". But with that heel, she's tall.
Hope you are not using her real name
Of course I didn't use Ashley's real name. Do you think I am stupid?
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Bostontraitor
Son
I actually chatted with a female dancer friend today about Amber. She laughed. She said, "don't think you are special. But if you put yourself in her shoes, most of the short guys won't even dare to ask her for the dance. "
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