I feel like BS is taking over because people come to dance to create connections. Salsa music is hard to learn. Usual route is to take classes where teachers teach complicated moves (in On1 and On2 thats the route). Its physically challenging. By that time, people get exposed to bachata or zouk and connect to a new bf/gf while dancing bachata/kizomba/zouk. The insistence of having multiple turns in 4 counts is making salsa less popular (and using very fast songs). Also we have to recognize that year after year latin music is changing and there are less and less songs that can be used for salsa dancing.
Salsa on the rise or not?
- Thread starter NPEADS
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matty
Son Montuno
It is, so im told. I have only been to the Callao district once, very briefly. Most of the DVDs i have of live salsa shows, if they are in Peru they are always in Callao so that seems to be the place for it .Iv always enjoyed to watch the concerts recorded in Karamba disco in Lima on youtube (it is not in the Callao district, but not too far). Cano Estremera, for one, seems to have a cult-like following there, hopefully he will be able to continue to travel and perform in these places, though his health is going through a rough patch now.
granrey
Son Montuno
Tango used to be popular music. It is not.
The salsa on the clubs and radios is from over 20 plus years ago. Lots of it over 30 years ago. 80's and 90's
Just as reference bachata from that period is rarely played. If you want to play bachata from the 80's and early 90's, you would have to play Blass Duran, Luis Segura, Marino perez, el sorterito del sur, Tony Santos, (not to be confused with Anthony santos) and others. Which are singers most of you have not even heard.
This should tell you the difference in health of both rhythms. While Bachata has moved on to new singers. Salsa seems stuck in the past.
Dor those who can speak spanish. This might help.
Mr Setenta
Son
I would rather Salsa stick to the past than for it to evolve into Bachata Sensual
Good idea, since guapea is basically not used in linear. I wouldn't blame casino follows for failing to follow if I tried to do hand flicks either.
We learned Guapea in our linear classes.
I actually think learning Casino moves is useful if you are a linear dancer.
I prefer dancing with a linear dancer with a Casino background as they are usually better, overall dancers with superior feel for the music.
Now thinking back to when I was in a strickly linear scene, I don’t think I would like it dancing with a room full of linear dancers with no experience with Cuban salsa.
I do a lot of hybrid stuff now and the feeling I like could not be had with linear only dancers. This is what I like about European Cuban scenes as the dancers who migrate to linear tend to be extraordinary.
In fact, if not for the level being low and the Cuban DJs here being horrible, I would transition into Casino.
I actually think learning Casino moves is useful if you are a linear dancer.
I prefer dancing with a linear dancer with a Casino background as they are usually better, overall dancers with superior feel for the music.
Now thinking back to when I was in a strickly linear scene, I don’t think I would like it dancing with a room full of linear dancers with no experience with Cuban salsa.
I do a lot of hybrid stuff now and the feeling I like could not be had with linear only dancers. This is what I like about European Cuban scenes as the dancers who migrate to linear tend to be extraordinary.
In fact, if not for the level being low and the Cuban DJs here being horrible, I would transition into Casino.
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matty
Son Montuno
well bachata is in its moment now
so, it may be the case that 20 or 30 years from now, quite a lot of the Bachata people listen to will be still from this era. Does that mean 30 years from now bachata is dead? or should bachateros be grateful that people are still listening to it?
El Chombo has some points but I don't think that he covers everything here, there are other reasons why salsa does not fit neatly into today's commercial music scene. Its not just the cost of hiring a band. Some claim that the radio stations and major labels don't get behind it anymore, presumably because it is harder to market. Without that backing and without radio play, it has a major disadvantage. In a Disco setting, people like what they know, and if they don't hear it they won't know it.
I also feel, personally that reggaeton is better able to take advantage of the youtube culture we have now. The music video is a huge part of it and the ability to produce new music quickly. Lets face it, most of the newer reggaeton artists in particular seem to be chosen for their looks over anything else
Anyways, What I see is that Spanish crowds (from Spain) seem to be happy with 100% Reggaeton, while the Latin crowds (Colombians, Venezuelans, Peruvians, Cubans, etc) tend to like variety, they like their vallenato, champeta, merengue, Bachata & Salsa in certain amounts weather it is old or not.
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granrey
Son Montuno
I dont think you are understanding. Bachata is very feasible moneywise because a guy with a guitar can make a good bachata song. It has nothing to do with the time passed or out of fashion. Bachata as reference is almost as old as what we call Salsa today (or even older)
The typical bachata band is very cheap.
Bachateros used to play and make a good living by playing their music on small venues including "car washes". Yes car washes.
your typical merengue or Salsa band cannot make a living in such scenarios.
Blas Duran (the first bachata superstar). He said on interviews that typical Merengue bands had a hard time competing with him because they make the music too expensive. Similar concept to Salsa.
matty
Son Montuno
but that would have always been the case, surely
what about it is different now?
Some of the salsa bands I know, the individuals have other projects on the go and that's how they make their living. They do certain kinds of shows in the band and are also members of other bands. etc.
Mr Setenta
Son
Replace the word "good" with "popular" and we are in agreement.
matty
Son Montuno
On that topic, here is a mini documentary about the Murals dedicated to Salsa in Callao.
It gives us a small glimpse of Callaos Salsa culture.
granrey
Son Montuno
totally agree. I wish this could make a comeback.
Trio matamoros stuff would be great.
granrey
Son Montuno
Nope it has not always been the case.
Salsa musicians back in the day were plenty. The market was flooded with them. We are talking a time in which radios and TV were luxury items. No video games, very little entertainment, severe poverty etc.
For many people, playing drums and other instruments were their gameboy and a way to get something to eat.
Now any farmer can have a cellphone and play video games in it. No need to entertain himself with a guitar or other salsa instrument.
When I was kid in the late 70's. it was common to receive salsa/merengue instruments as presents. For my hands passed drums, guira and guitars. However, I never picked up any of that seriously.
Musicians these days are very expensive and salsa needs lots of them. Plus there are more ways now to make a living.
Back in the Fania days, artists were making no money and were totally disposable.
Something where you can see the meaning of plenty from back in the day. Its that Pacheco and Pete Conde Rodriguez split and Pacheco found a replacement that sings almost identical to Pete (Hector Casanova). Some say, Pacheco would male Hector to wear the same clothes as Pete.
RogueBlader
Son
Tell that to Tromboranga and La Maxima 79, to name two off the top, who have been touring and releasing albums lately (in Europe, at least).
matty
Son Montuno
exactly
or check Newgen Salsa if you dont know it, dedicated only to new salsa music https://www.newgensalsa.com/category/salsaplaylist/
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HavanaCola
Changui
I like this song mostly the second half.
No issue dancing to it, yes there is a bit of reggaeton beat in it but it doesn't bother me.
Didnt know Los 4 , after reading the post I checked their other songs. Overall their music is ok not amazing but alright.
bailar y tocar
Son Montuno
Even Sonora Poncena had locals sitting in on percussion when I saw them at La Topa in Cali in 2017. GSR usually performs with local musicians in Cali. The Cuban bands don't do that, Cuban musicians work cheap as do Cali musicians in Cali or elsewhere in Latam. I think some PR salsa bands bring Cali or other Colombian musicians on their Latam tours.
As you mentioned, big name salsa bands are way cheaper than any name reggetonero. Plus the security, the crowd control for the latter... it all adds up.
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bailar y tocar
Son Montuno
It sounds like your point is the recorded music played by a DJ (or whomever) on a soundtrack in some venue.
It is much cheaper to produce a good recording of hip hop or reggaetón than salsa.
...but the tracks get old really fast... soooo... the artists have to keep producing to stay in the game... which cost more money in the long run.
As far as live music... only 1% of musicians who perform live can make a full time living on live performance only... the rest are driving Uber or doing other jobs in their "spare" time.
In the US, the vast majority of professional musicians make their living teaching music. In Cali, many musicians run salsa bars (and/or drive Uber).
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granrey
Son Montuno
Salsa is expensive to produce but it does not get old fast. Salsa is great music.
However it is on the decline due to not being profitable anymore.
For the most part people outside latin america prefer to pay teachers for choreo moves rather than buying few drinks or pay a venue to enjoy live music.
You cant blame them. The connection to the music is due to the moves the music allows them to make rather than moving as a reaction of the music and lyrics.
I would never put a dancer over a singer or a band.