"The educators?"
You're so hell bent on trying to ensure that Cuba receives its proper credit that you don't care that your points have no basis. You're just throwing anything out there to sound like you know what you're talking about. Again, I understand. For whatever reason, you're a Cubaphile. Okay. Cubans have been slighted in your mind. They're not discussed enough for your taste. That may all well be true. But there isn't ONE band in Cuba that could be given the credit for something like the Machito Orchestra being developed. Or Curbelo's, Pupi Campo, Marcelino Guerra and Tito Puente. Even Perez Prado. I'm referring to their sound. They're drawing from Cuban rhythms & melodies and paying attention to the orchestras that impacted them back then. But they're not COPYING. There's a difference between emulating and building upon a given theme. Tito Rodriguez' conjunto [Mambo Devils] was the very FIRST conjunto to utilize conga, bongo AND Timbales simultaneously. No band in Cuba had that combination before. That's an innovation developed outside of Cuba. Obviously, the orchestration of U.S. bands overall has a model and that model hails from Cuba. The rhythms and much of the musical characteristics are Cuban. But you have zero basis on claiming that the 'educators' were the Cuban Orchestras from Cuba and that's it. That is revisionism. The history of Cuban Music has always been an exchange of ideas. Persons such as the late Bebo Valdes explained the influence of Jazz orchestras from the U.S. and Europe and how Cuban music was being interpreted in NYC in a distinct manner from the bands who were active in Cuba. As it related to how he developed. All those Cuban musicians who were from Cuba and made their mark outside of Cuba... why did they do that? Why did Mario Bauza, Miguelito Valdes, Chano Pozo, Machito, Arsenio, Miguel Matamoros, Fernando Storch, Mongo Santamaria and so many other Cuban musicians make their way to NYC early on? There's a reason for that which you don't care to or have been able to figure out. They weren't escaping the Revolution in the 1930s and 1940s. Other than flag waving, I can't understand why anyone would have a point of contention with accepting the fact that Afro-Cuban Music is a culture that has been adopted by non-Cubans [and very early on in fact. Well before the embargo] and has been invested in creatively and developed outside of Cuba as much as in Cuba. That's something that can't be denied
I can totally agree that for someone like Pacheco, his cuban musical education stems form having been exposed to Fajardo, Orq. Aragon, Sonora Matancera, Roberto Faz, etc. You hear it in his music. But he's also been exposed to the big bands of New York. In conducting a large Orchestra like the Fania All Stars that's surely who he is influenced by as much as the charangas and conjuntos of Cuba from the 1950s.
You're focusing on one side of the coin only and giving it all the credit for everything that's happened. As if everything that has been produced under the banner of 'Salsa' is somehow strictly connected to the orchestras in Cuba. Unless you have the records [78s, 33rpm, 45rpm, LPs] to prove this, you're just saying what you're saying to push a personal agenda that isn't necessary to constantly be repeated here. As far as I can see, no one here has denied the roots of Salsa being largely cuban.
Today, in 2013, "Salsa" is pretty much 100% Cuban music interpreted by cubans and non-cubans. MHO. But at one point in time, it was Cuban Music+ as a result of certain bands adding Brasilian, Puerto Rican and Colombian elements into the mix. Not so much today as everyone today is a Mambo / Son Montuno / Guaracha head.
One thing you or no one else can deny is the influence of North America on Cuban Music. Because even a style like TIMBA has its U.S. musical elements being adopted into the music. It isn't just pure Son Cubano they're playing...
relax, count to 10..........1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, hehehe
Cubaphile hehehe now are we starting with adjetives?? I think I know what it means
if you call me cubaphile because I say that salsa is cuban music then you will also have to call cubaphile to everyone in the following list because they also said that salsa is cuban music, and by the way I admit that I love cuban music, merengue, cumbia, rancheras, samba, tango, bomba, rock n roll, country, jazz, joropo, reggae, classical music, etc etc etc
Celia Cruz, Ruben Blades, Machito, Oscar De Leon, Tito Puente, Papo Lucca, Eddie Palmeri, Mario Bauza, Larry Harlow, Dizzy Gillespie, Johnny Pacheco, SALSIM, etc etc etc
and if you claim to know more about salsa (cuban music) than the people in that list them you are overvaluing your self hehehe
you claim that Tito Rodriguez was the first to use Congas, Timbales, Bongos, thats lack of information, you know very little about cuban orchestras, remember that those are cuban instruments, and you call your self an expert hehehe
its not called copying its called covering
the other day I was talking with a puerto rican friend he was telling me that salsa is from puerto rico..... then i asked him, what about the bomba, plena, and jibaro music, he anwer those are the traditional music from puerto rico..... then I told him salsa is cuban music with the comercial name of salsa..... he is a good guy but the lack of information make people talk that way, especially when they see in the historical documentary movie "El Cantante" that Johnny Pacheco and Hector Lavoe invented salsa hehehe.........
I agree, american music has influenced cuban music and cuban music has influenced american music.
we cant deny the fact that the cuban orchestras based in Cuba, based in the US, based in Mexico, were the educators of salsa but to some people this is difficul to recognize and resolve by using adjetives like Cubaphile hehehe
I agree, today some songs in salsa uses cuban music mix with music from other places but most of salsa is 100% cuban music
Tito Puente said that salsa is not a musical form, he recognized salsa has a food not has a musical genre. I agree with Tito Puente
best regards all
