Salsa as sport?

S

SnowDancer

Son Montuno
I saw this posted on a local salsa forum. I'm not sure if I like the idea of Olympic-level salsa... just learning social dance was intimidating enough! :shock: Fortunately (for now), they're just talking about rueda.

"RUMBANANA in the Olympics?
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What? It could happen! Rumbanana Salsa Group has been invited to compete at the World Rueda Championships in Munich, Germany this March. The event has invited the Summer Olympic Committee to see if Rueda de Casino could be a recognized Olympic sport."
 
Man, that's terrible. The last thing I want to see is salsa as dancesport. Some of the performances I've seen are more than halfway there already. :(
 
noobster said:
Man, that's terrible. The last thing I want to see is salsa as dancesport. Some of the performances I've seen are more than halfway there already. :(
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Heyhey, happy new year and all that. Hopefully I get a dance from you as my xmas present soon enough ;)

Can you tell me more about the above and why you do not like it. What would salsa lose as a sport?

*just curious as do not know much about dancesport at all.
 
noobster said:
Man, that's terrible. The last thing I want to see is salsa as dancesport. Some of the performances I've seen are more than halfway there already. :(
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This! I was looking on the net for local ballroom classes and came upon this:

yorkdancesport.com

Straight away I was turned off, but I thought I'd give it a chance. I clicked on "socials" and guess what? THEY HAVE A FILM NIGHT! They don't even dance as a social activity! What is WITH that?!
 
Even such an established sport as karate has yet to make it a olympic sport. I don't think salsa or rueda will ever make it, which is good because then we won't have those doping problems ;)
 
The ballroom world added the word " sport " in a bid to get it accepted into the Olympics.

It has had prelim. approval and was feted in Austr. back when.

Does not the term " sport " imply by its very nature that when comps are held at world level ( like Mambo and Salsa ) they are " Competing " ?-- ergo-- its a sport.

Who would oppose the exposure it would bring ? .
 
sweavo said:
This! I was looking on the net for local ballroom classes and came upon this:

yorkdancesport.com

Straight away I was turned off, but I thought I'd give it a chance. I clicked on "socials" and guess what? THEY HAVE A FILM NIGHT! They don't even dance as a social activity! What is WITH that?!
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Steve-- its just the same as us salsa freaks rushing to see ANY movie that contains salsa -- they do exactly the same in their dance choices .
 
TheBear_CanDanceToo said:
sweavo said:
yorkdancesport.com
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I liked this excerpt from their website...
York DanceSport Competition Page said:
The standing committee have discretionary powers ..[snip]... they may ask a competitor to remove or replace a garment
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Sounds like my sort of crowd! :lol:
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Arf!

** Goes to get himself a "standing committee" t-shirt made **
 
smiling28 said:
Heyhey, happy new year and all that. Hopefully I get a dance from you as my xmas present soon enough ;)
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Happy New Year! Planning to make it stateside anytime soon? :)

Can you tell me more about the above and why you do not like it. What would salsa lose as a sport?

*just curious as do not know much about dancesport at all.
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I just do not like the rigidity that is a necessary adjunct to competitions.

Once you start competing you have to have judges, and then you have to have a standard of comparison, so then of course you have to have rules, and next thing you know This Is The 'Right' Way to place your pinky finger during a Standard CBL and anything else is Wrong and there go the freedom and creativity that I love about salsa.

I brought a ballroom guy to an NYC salsa social once and he was scandalized. "That's not the right way to do a Cha Cha!" I was like yeah, whatever buddy. You know what you can do with your Rule Book. :D

sweavo said:
Arf!

** Goes to get himself a "standing committee" t-shirt made **
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You two are terrible. I'd insert standard "smutty boys" commentary here but I'm certain Jambo will be along in a minute and she'll do it with ever so much more panache. ;)
 
Ron Obvious said:
Even such an established sport as karate has yet to make it a olympic sport. I don't think salsa or rueda will ever make it, which is good because then we won't have those doping problems ;)
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:shock: Have they developed a blood-test for mojitos?
 
noobster said:
smiling28 said:
Heyhey, happy new year and all that. Hopefully I get a dance from you as my xmas present soon enough ;)
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Happy New Year! Planning to make it stateside anytime soon? :)

Can you tell me more about the above and why you do not like it. What would salsa lose as a sport?

*just curious as do not know much about dancesport at all.
Click to expand...

I just do not like the rigidity that is a necessary adjunct to competitions.

Once you start competing you have to have judges, and then you have to have a standard of comparison, so then of course you have to have rules, and next thing you know This Is The 'Right' Way to place your pinky finger during a Standard CBL and anything else is Wrong and there go the freedom and creativity that I love about salsa.

I brought a ballroom guy to an NYC salsa social once and he was scandalized. "That's not the right way to do a Cha Cha!" I was like yeah, whatever buddy. You know what you can do with your Rule Book. :D

sweavo said:
Arf!

** Goes to get himself a "standing committee" t-shirt made **
Click to expand...

You two are terrible. I'd insert standard "smutty boys" commentary here but I'm certain Jambo will be along in a minute and she'll do it with ever so much more panache. ;)
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Ha ha, interesting turn of thread.

THanks for the answer noobster. NO stateside plans as of yet. THe goal is this year for:

April: India
June: Malaysia
October: Singapore (hopefully Japan fingers crossed)

I would love to come to US and go to Europe also but want to make a bigger trip. Also, currently learning on 2 and would want to be more proficient before i travel some more :)

As for the competitive sport reasons, yeah I understand but surely these are factors with the salsa world championships already?

I have no idea (have not really followed competitive side of salsa), not even sure how respected those world championships are?

I do know that with my taekwondo, when it became an olympic sport TWO main changes happened:

a) coaches and competitors adjusted their techniques and strategies TO OPTIMISE WINNING over everything else; AND

b) Organisers/rule makers adjusted and continue to try and adjust TO PRIORITISE CROWD/SPECTATOR ENJOYMENT over all else.

These 2 have clashed as a rule change will be made to make something look more interesting but the strategy will try and use the rule and its interpretation to adapt to their strategy. (hence some REALLY boring taekwondo matches in olympic history of two players just bouncing around WAITING instead of being offensive and creating something (which the crowd likes). THey would prefer to be more cautious as NOT doing something wrong controlled them instead of the intent to do things right.

If that makes sense.


*it made the tkd schools a lot of dollars anyway, with the generated interest (but even the schools adapted comprising on some tradition for new $tudent$
 
smiling28 said:
I do know that with my taekwondo, when it became an olympic sport TWO main changes happened:

a) coaches and competitors adjusted their techniques and strategies TO OPTIMISE WINNING over everything else; AND

b) Organisers/rule makers adjusted and continue to try and adjust TO PRIORITISE CROWD/SPECTATOR ENJOYMENT over all else.

These 2 have clashed as a rule change will be made to make something look more interesting but the strategy will try and use the rule and its interpretation to adapt to their strategy. (hence some REALLY boring taekwondo matches in olympic history of two players just bouncing around WAITING instead of being offensive and creating something (which the crowd likes). THey would prefer to be more cautious as NOT doing something wrong controlled them instead of the intent to do things right.

If that makes sense.


*it made the tkd schools a lot of dollars anyway, with the generated interest (but even the schools adapted comprising on some tradition for new $tudent$
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I think the reason karate hasn't made it to the Olympics is precisely that it's too hard for the audience to follow the games. There are impressive kicks and punches carried out but they don't result in points because the technique lacks something or the contact/stance was poor. Furthermore karate was counted in points and half-points (ippon/wasari) which was difficult to understand, and the katas were judged by referees and given points like in figure skating. Now they have changed the points system in kumite and made the katas done in a cup form instead, to try to gain audience interest. The thing in karate is that a punch is almost always faster than a kick and therefore a better instrument in matches, but the audience lieks kicks, so now kicks are awarded more points.

Now everyone leaves organised karate classes in favour of drop-in classes such as boxercise instead, because people think you learn the same but without the obligation to commit. Why is "commit" always such a frightening word?
 
smiling28 said:
I do know that with my taekwondo, when it became an olympic sport TWO main changes happened:

a) coaches and competitors adjusted their techniques and strategies TO OPTIMISE WINNING over everything else; AND
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That's what I'd worry about with dancing. Then again, it might not matter if the people who are into dancing-as-sport avoid the clubs and spend their time at training sessions.
 
SnowDancer said:
smiling28 said:
I do know that with my taekwondo, when it became an olympic sport TWO main changes happened:

a) coaches and competitors adjusted their techniques and strategies TO OPTIMISE WINNING over everything else; AND
Click to expand...

That's what I'd worry about with dancing. Then again, it might not matter if the people who are into dancing-as-sport avoid the clubs and spend their time at training sessions.
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I would like to optimise my dancing for

1) Freedom of expression (do as you feel)
2) Universal application (can dance with anyone)
3) Joy shared (feel good)
4) Richness of folkloric connection (love and learn about the history of the dance)

All of these are suppressed by competition and commercialization of the dance. At present I think there is enough space for everyone, but my worry is when an organisation declares itself "official" and starts to (mis)inform beginners. Just google for "qualified salsa teacher" for exhibit A.

noobster said:
yeah, whatever buddy. You know what you can do with your Rule Book.
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Actually, what he can do with the Rule Book varies considerably depending on whether he's Federation or Association...
 
Wow...interesting conversation.

I thought i'd chime in because it was my email that started this topic. Are competitions bad? It depends. Some can breed a bad attitude and a focus on rules. But, if handled the right way...some can encourage creativitiy, an energy for someone to get better at something...and as long as good sportsmanship is encouraged, it's a great chance for teams to get together.

Look at how well Bailar Casino (competion in Cuba) was received and it created a resurgance of Casino and Rueda de Casino in Cuba.

For our team...we stress the importance of getting to know the other teams, being friendly, supportive and fun. that's way more important to us than winning trophies. But, competition or events like them offer us a venue (or backdoor) into getting to know other dancers. We've already built an extensive family of Casino dancers in the U.S. It's awesome.

So yes, my thoughts are that competitions can go horribly bad if the wrong values and attitudes are applied to them. But with the right spirit and leadership - they can be the spark that inspires more people to learn to dance.

OK...enough from me. We're off to Germany for the World Rueda Championships. UNA BULLA!!!
 
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