Really smooth salsa dancers

MamboJazz said:
I just found this example about building "true connection" in bachata (subtitles in the video explain perfectly what they mean at each stage): slowing down, ignore the rhythm for a while but get into a contact impro.

It even shows exactly what my WCS instructor meant: the guy gets down on his knees and starts touching first her legs, than hips and above (let's ignore the kiss for now). That's why we did the massage in the workshop. One problem with that is: when I do this with an unknown follower she will think I'm creepy or weird for sure. All this doesn't work on the social floor. The other question is if this whole philosophy makes sense. It's not new: I remember already 10 years ago I was in a Forro workshop with the same content (knee down and touch each others ankles first). I left the room after five minutes. I don't say it's complete nonsense, but it's contact impro, not partner dance, and it doesn't fit well to latin dances.
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I have several opinion on this type of advocacy on interaction between two people (to music as a back drop). I didn’t say concept. It is more promotion and evangelization of this idea which is not new.

You rightly sighted contact improv which has been doing this type of stuff for a long time. I have seen instructors from regular partner dancing also try to bring some of it into which ever dance they are teaching. That too is not new and has happening for a long time.

First thing that comes to my mind is that this feels like using dances as an excuse to pseudo make out with a person. It is one step short of making out The music doesn’t matter and is in the background as some kind of mood enhancer.

Second is it can be justifed for any type of dance where more than one person is involved. Irrespective of the partner dance structure and irrespective of the music, you can always find ways to incorporate that into teaching. Except perhaps ballroom because that is very rigidly codified.

Third, this type of idea of connection is a very different one that what we normally seek through partner dancing. It is like forcing chemistry and connection on everyone and everywhere. The whole goal is to forcefeed the connection and that too a very physical one.

Fourth, if you notice it is always accompanied by slow tempo music of a certain feel. I won’t call it romantic music. Music has certain feel on sensuousness or tries to evoke that feeling in the listener. They won’t demonstrate it to music that doesn’t fit that.

Fifth, if this is the connection and you can create it with a stranger, go to the night clubs. You will see a lot of grinding and similar stuff going on a nightclub dance floor. They do it will all kinds of movements to all type of music. Fast, slow, hard hitting, doesn’t matter. At least they (people dancing in the night clubs) are explicit about it, will match rhythm to the tempo of the song. That’s a dancing equivalent of one night stand with a stranger. Almost like having vertical sex with a stranger with clothes on.

Sixth, teaching this to average or beginner dancer can lead to a disaster on the regular partner dancing dance floor. Fluidity of physical movement and body movement is a skill. How you see the women dance in that instagram example video is not easy. Some men are just clumsy and lack fluidity. Most of the beginners are in that category. If they try to dance with a lady dancing like that they will come across as a creeps.

Seventh, it can give a wrong idea to people on what is permissible on the dance floor. This I think is the biggest risk. We already hear complaints about awkward behavior without having to add on top of that. Instead of dance being universal (anyone dancing with anyone irrespective of age, shape, or size), this will narrow the participation. Not everyone will feel comfortable dancing with everyone. You might feel comfortable with only a handful of people.

If a couple wants to dance in risqué they don’t need a class or workshop :) same way as if you want to be new agey, you don’t need a class or workshop.

I would label this as promoting junk connection. Or connectivity p*rn :D
 
Offbeat said:
I have several opinion on this type of advocacy on interaction between two people (to music as a back drop). I didn’t say concept. It is more promotion and evangelization of this idea which is not new.

You rightly sighted contact improv which has been doing this type of stuff for a long time. I have seen instructors from regular partner dancing also try to bring some of it into which ever dance they are teaching. That too is not new and has happening for a long time.

First thing that comes to my mind is that this feels like using dances as an excuse to pseudo make out with a person. It is one step short of making out The music doesn’t matter and is in the background as some kind of mood enhancer.

Second is it can be justifed for any type of dance where more than one person is involved. Irrespective of the partner dance structure and irrespective of the music, you can always find ways to incorporate that into teaching. Except perhaps ballroom because that is very rigidly codified.

Third, this type of idea of connection is a very different one that what we normally seek through partner dancing. It is like forcing chemistry and connection on everyone and everywhere. The whole goal is to forcefeed the connection and that too a very physical one.

Fourth, if you notice it is always accompanied by slow tempo music of a certain feel. I won’t call it romantic music. Music has certain feel on sensuousness or tries to evoke that feeling in the listener. They won’t demonstrate it to music that doesn’t fit that.

Fifth, if this is the connection and you can create it with a stranger, go to the night clubs. You will see a lot of grinding and similar stuff going on a nightclub dance floor. They do it will all kinds of movements to all type of music. Fast, slow, hard hitting, doesn’t matter. At least they (people dancing in the night clubs) are explicit about it, will match rhythm to the tempo of the song. That’s a dancing equivalent of one night stand with a stranger. Almost like having vertical sex with a stranger with clothes on.

Sixth, teaching this to average or beginner dancer can lead to a disaster on the regular partner dancing dance floor. Fluidity of physical movement and body movement is a skill. How you see the women dance in that instagram example video is not easy. Some men are just clumsy and lack fluidity. Most of the beginners are in that category. If they try to dance with a lady dancing like that they will come across as a creeps.

Seventh, it can give a wrong idea to people on what is permissible on the dance floor. This I think is the biggest risk. We already hear complaints about awkward behavior without having to add on top of that. Instead of dance being universal (anyone dancing with anyone irrespective of age, shape, or size), this will narrow the participation. Not everyone will feel comfortable dancing with everyone. You might feel comfortable with only a handful of people.

If a couple wants to dance in risqué they don’t need a class or workshop :) same way as if you want to be new agey, you don’t need a class or workshop.

I would label this as promoting junk connection. Or connectivity p*rn :D
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Very good summary of all the problems included in teaching this. You may well do this with your regular dance partner but teaching this in workshops with mostly improvers leads to many problems. But as some instructors try this since decades without much success I'm confident it will never settle in the scene.

"It is like forcing chemistry and connection on everyone and everywhere." - Important point. We have to assume and accept that at least some people don't want to connect with us in such a way. In these workshops they use to say "You can always say or indicata "No" ". But you are already on the wrong path when you are challenging a "No". Some guys will rely on the fact that some women often are too agreeable, not daring to say "No" - and here the thing will go south.
 
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MamboJazz said:
Some guys will rely on the fact that some women often are too agreeable, not daring to say "No" - and here the thing will go south.
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Absolutely. People are different. Some women will be cool and some will be horrified. Some may not dare say no as you mentioned. Guys too would be too timid to try it at beginner or less experienced level. Which leaves exactly the wrong type of guys who are ready to try it. They will be usually entitled, overconfident and lack ability to read cues or ignore the cues.

If two strangers want to dance closely they will find a way when dancing. We have all been there. In early days of bachata dancing you would find every fifth or sixth partner willing to not only dance up close with full body contact but also raise the level intimacy in the dance through physical movement. That’s a mouthful for a lack of single word to describe it. It would stop just short of being risqué. Non-dancer friends would marvel watching two unconnected people dance like that. It happened organically. No one was teaching it. There wasn’t even a class to go learn bachata a first couple of years.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
You know you’re good when you can make even Leon Rose look smooth

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That’s because:

- she has good lines
- quick reaction times
- excellent turn technique
- fills up the void before he can do anything.
- also follows at the last second

So basically she is doing all the basic things right. Which is what good dancing is. Her improvement reminds me of Anya. When I was sitting out at SF SBK for stretches, she was dancing right infront of me. I can definitely see improvement in how she is expressing the music in above clip compared to SFSBK.
 
Smejmoon said:
I would say another difference is that at least at the start of the song he cared.
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The start of the song is such that he can’t stomp around.

I like this song. It always gets played there. I might have heard it play only twice or thrice out here when I have been out dancing in the past six or seven years.
 
Superb dance - thanks for posting. Well, she’s so attentive. Keeps an eagle eye on him, looking in his eyes, reading the lead. There’s my new role model with my long term goal on improving ‘just following’. Agree - great song and she interprets it beautifully.

He’s big on those neck sweeps/leading! If it’s done right, and gently, it can feel so sexy :). There were some leads at Caribe (Tokyo) who used to do such moves very well.
 
Offbeat said:
Absolutely. People are different. Some women will be cool and some will be horrified. Some may not dare say no as you mentioned. Guys too would be too timid to try it at beginner or less experienced level. Which leaves exactly the wrong type of guys who are ready to try it. They will be usually entitled, overconfident and lack ability to read cues or ignore the cues.
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I rarely dance bachata, and never sensual, but 9/10 if I do dance bachata at a SBK I get some dude trying to lead me into sensual body roll kinda crap. I don't do it but they keep trying. I think only a minority are genuinely creepy, more I think are just a bit awkward. But mostly I think it's because they just think that's how you dance. That's what they get taught, that's what's all over social media, so why wouldn't they do it?

Overconfidence is a bit of an epidemic in intermediate leads of all styles IMHO, but the consequences are worse when it's stuff like this.
 
eclo said:
I rarely dance bachata, and never sensual, but 9/10 if I do dance bachata at a SBK I get some dude trying to lead me into sensual body roll kinda crap. I don't do it but they keep trying. I think only a minority are genuinely creepy, more I think are just a bit awkward. But mostly I think it's because they just think that's how you dance. That's what they get taught, that's what's all over social media, so why wouldn't they do it?

Overconfidence is a bit of an epidemic in intermediate leads of all styles IMHO, but the consequences are worse when it's stuff like this.
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I can relate. Have had a very similar experience. With a “minority” that forces you right up against them, apparently thinking that’s just what you want :(
 
Offbeat said:
I like this song. It always gets played there. I might have heard it play only twice or thrice out here when I have been out dancing in the past six or seven years.
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I find it rather bland. It sounds rather elevatory to me. I will dance to it but it is far from my favorite song.
 
Say what you want about the dancing but this is smooth AF…


The lead is probably one of the smoothest I’ve seen across many videos.
 
I don’t know if this is smooth or not to others. To me it is:


It is one of very very few videos I don’t mind watching frequently. Both are very good and I think he is smooth dancer. I like his dancing

I would love to dance with her! I am sure I never been on the same dance floor with her. That song is also one that is among my fav list.

That girl in red pants and sleeveless white top in the background to the right of couple is also good. She appears when the camera changes the angle at 1:22. More visible around 1:35 and after. Dancing with a leader in black shirt (and grey trousers).
 
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