Lately I've been taking classes on2 at two different studios after doing on1 for a few years. In both studios (both from very reputable instructors), they advocate not giving much of a prep, or any prep at all, for inside and outside turns. By contrast, in my on1 classes, a big emphasis has been placed on prepping for the traveling turns, such that the follow's foot is in front of the other foot, in the opposite direction they'll be turning (e.g., prepping for outside right is in front of left, prepping for inside left is in front of right). Is this commonly taught technique for on2, and if so, is there a mechanical reason for this difference from on1? Is it because in on1, you're beginning the turn out of a pause, and so need more a "windup" to get you going, whereas for on2 you're already moving forward on the 1 before going into the turn?
prepping for traveling turns on1 vs on2?
- Thread starter bulldog91
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1derpalm
Son Montuno
On either count, a prep is more necessary in 1 direction then another, depending on which side of the slot you're on. And leadet grip. And maybe song tempo.
A travelling outside is better with slight prep if you're on her left side. Outside turn if you're on her right side doesn't need a prep, by virtue of the lead of the move itself.
A traveling inside is basically necessary if you're on her right as you need to wind her up a tad to make it comfortable to lead her through 2 -3 inside turns.
If your talking about your standard cbl turn (travelling inside from her left side)...
I think it depends on hand grip (L.A pistol grip vs New York Grip), and style. One of my teachers dances on both counts but in a more L.A style. He uses pistol grip, teaches and leads from open position and teaches a slight prep.
My other (ex) teacher dances both counts as well but even on 1 it's new york style. Overhand grip, connecting in close potion on the 3 and (as a result) no prep needed.
A travelling outside is better with slight prep if you're on her left side. Outside turn if you're on her right side doesn't need a prep, by virtue of the lead of the move itself.
A traveling inside is basically necessary if you're on her right as you need to wind her up a tad to make it comfortable to lead her through 2 -3 inside turns.
If your talking about your standard cbl turn (travelling inside from her left side)...
I think it depends on hand grip (L.A pistol grip vs New York Grip), and style. One of my teachers dances on both counts but in a more L.A style. He uses pistol grip, teaches and leads from open position and teaches a slight prep.
My other (ex) teacher dances both counts as well but even on 1 it's new york style. Overhand grip, connecting in close potion on the 3 and (as a result) no prep needed.
1derpalm
Son Montuno
If dancing with Cubans and latinas, agreed. But some girls appreciate a slight wind up because it is more comfortable.
Also maybe it depends on the zeal of one's prep.
I agree that you don't need much of a prep On2. It works the same On1. Every On1 teacher I know likes to teach using big prepping tools like the J-prep, which in the the long-run becomes a crutch and it slowly gets phased out.
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How many preps similar to those on your on1 classes you see in the last clip I posted in on1 social dancing videos thread (and where) ?
I even think it's a question of musical context, too.
Some turns just have more effect "coming from nowhere", some other are smoother when announced.
Preps can be like a musical crescendo in dancing.
In my opinion, when the dancing is smooth, you are usually not coming from a pause on one, either. The flow of the dance keeps you moving on "4" and "8".
Something not discussed yet, I think:
Prep or no prep can depend of where and how you want to mark the end of the turn. Also that looks good sometimes danced "tight" and sometimes it looks better loose - which gives more tolerance as to when to initiate the turn.
Even physics play a role - the weight and size difference between follow and leader demands for both to adapt.
So I don't really see a difference between on 2 and on 1. (I have to say I'm not an expert in linear salsa styles, though)
A prep from a travelling turn coming out of a basic has always seemed “clunky” to me, hence I never do it. I initiate tavelling turns almost always as a way to get someone to unwind or through a misdirection, so the prep is minimal as there is already a strong signal to perform a traveling turn.
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One studio is Masacote, the other is an instructor who trained with Eddie Torres Jr. At the former they teach that a hand up on 1 is enough to prep for inside turn, the latter says barely any prep is necessary; just steer them into the turn on the count that it begins (2 for outside, 3 for inside). I was taught the way you describe in my on1 classes, make sure that the follower's hip is rotated out prior to the step that begins the turn.
They don't use much hip rotation while dancing, hence the difference. It's not connected with on1 vs on2, but just how they are using the body while dancing, so try to notify the differences vs your old studio in that area, otherwise your dancing with their other students won't work very well.
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To be sure about the teminology; you mean this? (including the prep)
If yes, I agree. But there are different ways to do the prep. Unfortunately I have no video for this right now... But what I mean is ways of prepping with more choreographical (or theatrical?) approach and less clumsy?
My point is that the “how” and the “when” can legitimate loads of things..
The prep is the same but that's the side break variation which isn't normally taught.
I was referring more to the prep/turn performed by Joel in the video below. He is doing a lot of different turns, but the move in question is the first turn performed at 0:39. He is coming out of the basic and does a forward break before initiating the traveling turn. This is how I was taught. But as I said, I find that whole setup clunky and I never do it socially.
The NY timing is also more apparent here, but that's another story.
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I agree it’s a little bit clunky in this video. They lift the arm too early, having to wait for the “one” (or whatever they dance to, the sync is strange in the video) for the turn to start. However, there is nicer preps - and better moments to do them.
So you rather pledge for no preps in general?
So you rather pledge for no preps in general?
I agree with Masacote about putting the hand up to signal. However, that's not the only element to it. Putting a hand up doesn't always mean "do traveling turn now". A slight prep can be useful like in the video you posted from dance dojo. I just don't advocate huge, dangling arm movements that look fugly.
Then we agree in general.
Hand up is ok for me, too, but I think it really looks like beginner if that hand is there too early - that might be a clear signal, but it really doesn't look like music to me.
Hand up is ok for me, too, but I think it really looks like beginner if that hand is there too early - that might be a clear signal, but it really doesn't look like music to me.
Just like this, of course.