Pre-beginner disability question

S

swisswuff

A friend asked me to attend a Salsa beginners' course with her.

Now, I am missing the right forearm / hand (total length missing compared to other side ~ 27 cm or so), and I did notice that Salsa, in particular the Cuban Style Salsa that she had found she wanted to do, relied rather heavily on an intact wrist / hand in both flexed and rotated positions. I watched a few performances and a few lessons on Youtube.

The last dance I spent time learning was Tango Argentino - and that is absolutely no problem in that specific regard as all my right residual arm / prosthetic arm does is guide the lady's back a bit, and that's it.

Now what options are there: I can wear a silicone prosthetic that has the correct length but neither moves nor can I feel touch there - that hand is extended and stiff - or I can go dance without the prosthetic in which instance I wonder whether at all that would make sense. Because the shorter residual limb is a problem whenever normal length is required, and there is no way to grasp. I can fake similar length at the cost of rotating my shoulders out of a regular posture - but that won't look good either.

Do you have a good tip? Do you think it probably won't work and better to save energies for other activities? Or do you see no problem at all, just go dance and let things go their way? Can Salsa be danced by leading with the left hand only/for the most part?

Thank you very much in advance, Wolf.
 
I also found this here which makes me think Salsa is probably a No Go for me:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Tip #4:
Hand Coordination
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

http://www.salsaforums.com/showthread.php?t=131

Hand coordination is a very crucial part of your dance. This is
due to the fact that all the turns and turn patterns are managed
and controlled through your hands and their placement, both in
and out of a turn. When the guy wants the girl to do any kind of
turn or turn pattern, both of your hands obviously need to be
coordinated. The same goes for dips, styles and shines, in all
of these patterns the hands play a very important role.
 
hmmm cuban I don't know... but LA should not be a big problem... you have to adapt.. or better yet.. the teacher will have to adapt to teach you to dance around the disability.. but it is doable..

I had a severe shoulder injury a while back and when I started dancing again I couldn't really use my right arm the way I wanted to so I improvised around it using mostly my left arm...
 
swisswuff said:
Can Salsa be danced by leading with the left hand only/for the most part?

Thank you very much in advance, Wolf.
Click to expand...

Quick answer, Yes. Whether it's Cuban salsa or cross-body salsa.

I dance both Cuban salsa and cross-body salsa and have lead a large part of the dance with only the left or right hand for fun. In Cuban salsa you can also lead some fun moves with other body parts.

In Cuban salsa left-handed only moves are:
- Guapea basic (instead of right hand I often use my shoulder, elbow, knee, head, back.. there are many fun variations without the hand).
- Hecho/clockwise turn.
- Enchufe/Deshecho.
- Ronde.
- Vacilala.
- Exhibela.
- Paseala/Camina (walks)
- Dile Que No (left handed version).
- Panque.
- Yogurt.
- Arm checks.
- La Prima.

Which is most of the basic/fundamental moves listed here:
http://www.salsaville.com/salc/salc_intr1_guide.htm

For example, in this video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ib_JQXOqek
ALL the one handed moves with the right hand can be done with the left hand instead, and all but one of the double handed moves CAN be lead with the left hand with the right just for show.


In Cuban salsa women are taught to put their left hand on the guys right shoulder for support when they come back together. A prosthetic arm should be good enough for putting the right arm on her back/shoulder blade but it doesn't necesarilly have to do much.

Most intermediate/advanced moves from Setenta onwards require both hands but there are probably ways to lead some of these with a prosthetic of some kind.

Enchufe doble, you can stop her with your leg instead of your right arm on the shoulder.

Setenta is mainly lead with the left hand, with the right hand just in a low fixed position. Setenta complicado should be no problem as well for the same reason.

Dile Que Si is mainly a left & right elbow lead with the girl just holding onto your hands.

http://www.salsaville.com/salc/salc_intr2_guide.htm

Advanced moves that can be done with a left-hand only:
- Tight turning.
- Release, Catch & Duck.
- Switching hands between legs.
- Leg lifts.
- Las Fotos.

A basic Rueda shouldn't be too much of a problem either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpzVWrePjS8


Here's a right-arm example for Cross-body salsa, in case you're interested to see what it looks like. Obviously with the left-arm only moves may be slightly different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3boz6kzHGRU

At the end of the day it's not what moves you lead but how good a leader/dancer you are with what you've got. There are always opportunities for moves even without using any arms/hands.

If classes are in any way a problem for you, you can always take some additional private lessons to improve your leading, get used to what options you have and ways to deal with any moves that might normally require a right hand. Then do as much social dancing with your friend as possible and attend the classes when you feel confident to do so.
 
just to show you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3c6QgfXXHU

any move he does in that video can be done with the left too..

here hes dancing with one of the best dancers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9AkZ1TbGBc

she seems pretty happy to me :)
 
swisswuff said:
I also found this here which makes me think Salsa is probably a No Go for me:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Tip #4:
Hand Coordination
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

http://www.salsaforums.com/showthread.php?t=131

Hand coordination is a very crucial part of your dance. This is
due to the fact that all the turns and turn patterns are managed
and controlled through your hands and their placement, both in
and out of a turn. When the guy wants the girl to do any kind of
turn or turn pattern, both of your hands obviously need to be
coordinated. The same goes for dips, styles and shines, in all
of these patterns the hands play a very important role.
Click to expand...

This is talking about the effect the hands have on three different things:
- Leading
- Balance
- Styling

It is written assuming the leader has two hands. What it doesn't say is that balance and styling comes from the core of the body primarily. It can be negatively effected by putting the hands in bad positions. If you don't have an arm/hand you don't have a problem placing it properly.

Leading wise depends on the move but most often you are mainly leading with one hand at a time, even on two handed moves.

Dips are a special case as there's a strong safety element to consider. That's the kind of thing you want to take private lessons with an instructor to teach both you and your partner the correct techniques.
 
swisswuff said:
.

Now, I am missing the right forearm / hand (total length missing compared to other side ~ 27 cm or so), way to grasp. I can fake similar length at the cost of rotating my shoulders out of a regular posture - but that won't look good either.

.
Click to expand...

This might give you some insight..


Over the many yrs, Ive taught Deaf people, a Man with 2 artificial legs ( attempting Mambo and Cha Cha ! ) and on 3 different occasions children and adults with Downs syndrome. So.. can you learn ? of course you can.

There was a well known competitor ( in B/room ) many yrs ago that had his left hand missing.

Heres the point.. Dance isnt about ( or shouldnt be ) the AMOUNT of variety you know and use, but to enjoy the few things you do know;its about the music and " feel" of motion that one develops with the partner .

You may be surprised to know that,many of the older Cubanos in Tampa for e.g. seldom dance more than3/4 variations, and still look better than many so called "advanced dancers !!
 
If she has specific teacher and group classes in mind, you better talk to the teacher first. Because teacher will have to change what they do quite a bit for you.

In general, while I enjoy and use both hands, I have danced single handed quite a bit due to injuries and enjoyed that as well. And I have danced with people who had their wrists or fingers broken, which mean I did not touch their hand much, at least tried not to engage and enjoyed these dances too, while they where a bit stressful (because I was afraid to hurt her).
 
Smejmoon said:
If she has specific teacher and group classes in mind, you better talk to the teacher first. Because teacher will have to change what they do quite a bit for you.
Click to expand...

What will they have to change? Disagree. In Cuban beginners level they won't have to change anything syllabus wise. There may be one or two moments where he individually needs to adapt to the move or follower but other than that no.

Agree he should talk to the teacher though to make them feel comfortable.
 
swisswuff said:
A friend asked me to attend a Salsa beginners' course with her.

Now, I am missing the right forearm / hand (total length missing compared to other side ~ 27 cm or so), and I did notice that Salsa, in particular the Cuban Style Salsa that she had found she wanted to do, [...]

Do you have a good tip? Do you think it probably won't work and better to save energies for other activities? Or do you see no problem at all, just go dance and let things go their way? Can Salsa be danced by leading with the left hand only/for the most part?
Click to expand...

First, welcome to SF, swisswulf!

Although I only have a very limited experience with Cuban Style, I doubt that your missing right forearm/hand is going to really hinder you from learning to dance cuban style. And as I see my fellow member azzey already explained this in detail for the various moves.

I just like to add that it all comes down to two points. First, I think you need to find an instructor who doesn't view your disability as problem towards learning, but rather as a challenge to help you become the best cuban dancer that you can be as well as learn to lead everything with just the left hand. And second it comes down to your own dedication and motivation. If you really want to dance cuban style and are willing to practice as much as possible, then I'm sure you can make it and become a great one-handed cuban dancer.

So I would definitely suggest to take own the challenge, find a good instructor and then learning how to lead as many moves or new variations for it just with the left hand and your stub. In the end it doesn't matter how many moves you know or wether you lead them with one hand or both, just make sure to learn to lead correctly and gentle and the ladies will enjoy dancing with you like with any other guy.
 
azzey said:
What will they have to change? Disagree. In Cuban beginners level they won't have to change anything syllabus wise. There may be one or two moments where he individually needs to adapt to the move or follower but other than that no.
Click to expand...

Even better, that will answer the question then.
 
Great answers : ) Thanks : ) !!!! I really appreciate the level of detail. No problem here with body core strength (I swim, yesterday a friend and I did a 2,1 km butterfly training as part of some extended Sunday series) and no problem with leading through all kinds of friendly means of encounter - what I was after was some more details re. right hand leading and the answers are extremely encouraging. From what I read it seems to be helpful to approximate correct arm length by wearing the silicone arm. After discussing it with my dance partner we decided to go with it and sign up for the course. Thanks for these extremely useful replies, Wolf.
 
swisswuff said:
m. After discussing it with my dance partner we decided to go with it and sign up for the course. Thanks for these extremely useful replies, Wolf.
Click to expand...

Fantastic, I hope you let us know about your progess as I can imagine that you can inspire other people with disabilities who are thinking about this and come to our site. And I'm sure you and your dance partner will have a wonderful time learning and dancing whenever you decide to go out.
 
azzey said:
This is talking about the effect the hands have on three different things:
- Leading
- Balance
- Styling

It is written assuming the leader has two hands. What it doesn't say is that balance and styling comes from the core of the body primarily.

Leading wise depends on the move but most often you are mainly leading with one hand at a time, even on two handed moves.
Click to expand...

Oops, forgot to say.. Leading mainly comes from the body too.

If you can keep your right arm in a 90 degree position (most of the time) with the palm out, then raise or lower your whole right arm as you do moves and turn your body left/right then you will do fine with most beginner/intermediate double handed moves.

Of course, beginner followers are never easy to lead so make sure to also practice with the teacher or experienced students to get the confidence that you are leading sufficiently well.
 
swisswuff said:
Great answers : ) Thanks : ) !!!! I really appreciate the level of detail. No problem here with body core strength (I swim, yesterday a friend and I did a 2,1 km butterfly training as part of some extended Sunday series) and no problem with leading through all kinds of friendly means of encounter - what I was after was some more details re. right hand leading and the answers are extremely encouraging. From what I read it seems to be helpful to approximate correct arm length by wearing the silicone arm. After discussing it with my dance partner we decided to go with it and sign up for the course. Thanks for these extremely useful replies, Wolf.
Click to expand...

Great news. Recommend getting one of the DVD's I mentioned to ease your progress. Every guy finds learning to lead difficult in the beginning and in Salsa you have to learn the rhythm of Salsa too and take care of many other things.

Keep in touch and don't forget there are further resources here if you need them.
 
Here are decent quality videos of some beginner, intermediate & advanced moves for Cuban and Miami style Salsa (so you can match the names to the moves and have something to practice outside of class):

http://www.youtube.com/user/SalsaFuerte

I find most of the videos on youtube for beginner level stuff are of poor dancing or cross-body salsa labelled as Cuban when it's not even close. Which is why I'm recommending this one. The DVD I mentioned is even better as all the teachers are Cuban.

Some of the arm/hand movements here are large (e.g. in the basic Guapea step at the beginning of each video), but they can also be done with small movements too. Better dancers tend to make smaller more flowing movements as the arms follow the body.

Most of the good quality dancing of Cubans in Congress workshops, performances etc (that you probably saw) use many advanced level moves and beginners often find it hard to see how to build these from the basics, although that's what they are ; a series of basics.

No time like the present to start learning and get ahead of the other guys in the class. :)
 
Always remember that particularly in Cuban salsa there is much more to dancing well than the moves you do, so never feel that because you can't physically complete a move you can't be an awesome dancer.

See here for the real essence of Cuban salsa:
Adding flair to basic footwork

.
 
Thanks. Great Youtube channel, azzey2. Well, what can I say :)) I do feel intrigued and encouraged.

I could tell you that that unabashed frightless relatively small (only 6 ft tall) disabled championship swimmer with the white cap to the far right is me (the video focuses on the guy in the other lane) - and despite my propeller damage, I am the only one to go at steady full stroke rate and no decay in style over this 100m butterfly race. Butterfly if done right is an absolute joy, it's power speed dancing with the water. I do stuff for style and attitude, guys, and I play hard to get it right! Also it is fun, but proper attention at all times is a must.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHOowB4eWB0

In that sense, I bow before you and shall report back in due time : )
 
swisswuff said:
A friend asked me to attend a Salsa beginners' course with her.

Now, I am missing the right forearm / hand
Click to expand...

:eek: first time I read this I thought you meant first it wasn't missing, then you did a beginners' course, then it was missing!

Took me a couple of reads, there...

Yes, both hands are used in cuban salsa BUT I don't see any reason why you can't become quite a proficient dancer using only (or chiefly) your left hand to lead. There is a guy in the city next to mine who has no right arm at all as far as I've seen, and has been dancing a slightly adapted cuban style for at least the last ten years, and the ladies love to dance with him.
 
You don't sound like a guy that doubts himself so you're probably just right for getting through beginner salsa.

I'd object to comparing dance to sport though, but that's just a bugbear of mine.

I only posted so that I would have an excuse to post this (barely related) video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK6XO84j5Ko
 
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