Please, don't rip my arms off!

wonderwoman

wonderwoman

Son
There are a couple leaders in my scene who are particularly rough when they lead a Titanic aka Copa. They end up really yanking on my arms to where it's almost painful. I recently danced with one of these guys and after the dance I told him I loved dancing with him, but that he leads the Copa very roughly, and he needs to have his teacher show him how to do it better. I know I probably hurt his feelings and he likely won't dance with me for a long time (I will simply have to ask him.. but not for a few months) but I also don't want to get hurt!

What is your advice how to deal with guys who lead things roughly or sloppily or with poor technique? Should you correct them? Should you avoid dancing with them? (I dislike avoiding, my scene is too small, and I make it a point to dance with everyone I can)
 
You could do that. I mean, how else? Or you could show him the lead and how to lead it more gently, if you know how to teach it.
 
I think what you did is ok, although it probably was hurtful to hear, but what else can you do, right?:oops:. One of my female teachers said that one way to deal with rough leads is to stay physically close to them, preventing them from extending their arms. The extended arm position is what gives them the leverage and the physical power over you. If someone tries the titanic move or whatever, you could just keep your arms close to your body. Leading it will feel awkward and the lead will just think that you don't follow it well so probably wouldn't try leading it on you again. Just an idea, :muted:.
 
There was a guy out tonight and lots of the girls were complaining about him, but hadn't told him directly. I struck up a conversation with the plan of letting him know, but unfortunately he didn't speak English. If I see him out again I'll find someone who speaks his language to tell him. My scene is small enough that we don't want guys putting off the girls.
 
My first advice is that followers should always protect themselves whenever possible. So if you can bail out of the dance before you get hurt then do so. Is he rough throughout the dance? Then you need to be on guard throughout. I had one partner who does not like tunnel patterns. The first time I tried it she just planted her feet for a stop and told me with a smile and in no uncertain terms that she doesn't do tunnels. I've never done it since and she is one of my favorite regular partners.

In general, though I think you did the right thing by telling him. You just need to be clear and tactful.

You could also announce at the beginning of the dance that you have a shoulder injury and could he be gentle with his lead. I've had partners ask me to dance for this very reason knowing that I would listen to them and know how to execute a light lead and restrain myself from wild patterns.
 
If a lead I am dancing with is excessively rough or uses too much force, I don't even wait until the end of the dance, I tell him right away--usually what happens is he immediately becomes lighter, and tells me he hadn't realized he was being rough, and then we have a nice dance for the rest of the song :)--much better than me being tense the entire dance and him not knowing why I'm not enjoying it.
 
I want to know for sure for sure if I'm causing pain or discomfort. If you were to say to me that that hurts a little it would be fine. If my mood were off, I might not like it at the time. But I still want to know.
 
wonderwoman said:
There are a couple leaders in my scene who are particularly rough when they lead a Titanic aka Copa. They end up really yanking on my arms to where it's almost painful. I recently danced with one of these guys and after the dance I told him I loved dancing with him, but that he leads the Copa very roughly, and he needs to have his teacher show him how to do it better. I know I probably hurt his feelings and he likely won't dance with me for a long time (I will simply have to ask him.. but not for a few months) but I also don't want to get hurt!

What is your advice how to deal with guys who lead things roughly or sloppily or with poor technique? Should you correct them? Should you avoid dancing with them? (I dislike avoiding, my scene is too small, and I make it a point to dance with everyone I can)
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break the connection when you feel too much tension/force in leaders hand. and do it as if it happened accidentally and say oppps sorry :)
 
disarm said:
As a leader, it's good to be corrected at times. Otherwise we'll keep doing it!
As long as feedback is given in the right way, no offence will be taken.
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That depends... :rolleyes:

I once corrected a post-beginner guy who tried to turn me while gripping my hand (ouch), telling him that he had to keep his thumb off the back of my hand. He never EVER asked me again. After maybe about 2-3 years I decided to ask him myself - and he was still gripping with his thumb! :confused:
 
Stuff I have done.
  • said "ouch" loudly even if what they are doing isn't actually "ouch" out-loud-able level of bad, this usually causes them to ask what's wrong, or stop trying to do crazy ****.
  • made my arms like overcooked spaghetti, or dropped his hands.
  • asked rough leaders to use less force/less power.
  • asked lobster-thumbs to stop using thumbs; used my thumbs to pry his thumbs off the back of my hands - some of these guys grip too hard though.
  • taken the hands of lobster-thumb guys and done what they are doing back to them and led them into turns so they can feel how totally horrible it is.
  • told the guy to stop what he was doing ie power, thumbs or whatever or I would walk off the floor
  • walked off the floor
  • refused to dance again with a rough guy and told him sorry, but I couldn't risk being injured
I try to avoid actually correcting their specific technique, if they ask, I say ask your teacher or get a new one if this is what they are teaching you.
 
Actually in the case of the copa - if your ego is up to it, you could fake fall over stumble badly or basically stop correcting for his bad leading, and just let it end up as a disaster. Enough times like that he will either work out what is wrong, or stop doing it with you.

Edit: though maybe he ends up suing more force to make it happen?? hmmm.
 
londongirl said:
Edit: though maybe he ends up using more force to make it happen?? hmmm.
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Yes I've experienced this and it's not pleasant! Or he ends up trying to teach you how to follow it/correcting your bad technique. With some guys you just can't win...
 
londongirl said:
I try to avoid actually correcting their specific technique, if they ask, I say ask your teacher or get a new one if this is what they are teaching you.
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I do the same unless it's a specific question from one of my regulars who I know will take it well. Not foolproof though, had a follow in tango class refuse to practice with me when I rotated to her after I refused to critique her :confused:

MacMoto said:
With some people you just can't win...
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Fixed that for you (see above).
 
londongirl said:
  • said "ouch" loudly even if what they are doing isn't actually "ouch" out-loud-able level of bad, this usually causes them to ask what's wrong, or stop trying to do crazy ****.
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+1 this.
It's important to be blunt here so no one else gets hurt either.
 
This answer can't be answered generally.

Some people love to be corrected and see it as a chance of learning.

Some people take every form of feedback as a direct insult and will probably never dance with you again.

It could help to add after the feedback something like 'if you wanna dance again please ask me'. If the guy doesn't understand you have a good heart by then he's not worth your time anyway (my opinion :p)
 
The best way to ensure you're not rough as a lead is to get proper instruction. I learned a really good way to lead that move by Oliver P, and I use the same principle in much of my leads - I'm regularly told that I'm a nice light lead but clear and unambiguous. It's easier than most people realise.
 
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