On2 styles

[petteri]

(I have only just learned these exist lol who would have thought that salsa had subsections let alone their subsections having subsections!!!!!! )

Get 4 or 5 on2-ers together and ask them what's the "right" way to lead a spin prep... you'll find sub-sub-sub-divisions ;-)

There is really huge difference in On2 dance styles. Here is two examples, one is from Santo Rico Social and other from probably very early hours of St. Petersburg salsa congress (first pair in the video).

New York City (Santo Rico Social)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLasXKeguzY

St. Petersburg (Salsa Congress early hours ) (first pair in the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6LSijYCmXo

Both couples dance very well even though there skill differences at least to my eyes. But that is not the point.

Interesting between these videos, there is really huge difference in style. New York example is civilized social dancing, using pretty "big" preps and dancing by the book, couples keeps distance and does not really interpret music that much.

In St. Petersburg salsa congress example you can almost smell sweat and adrenaline. Pair dances very close together and hits accents very well. Dancers have excellent body rhythm and leading moves are kept pretty small. There is also big difference in the role of the lady.

 

[opm1s6]

With all due respect, I think you're a little misguided in looking to compare styles. Particularly those of dancers who themselves don't have a concrete grasp on what they want their style to be. I'd first like to preface this that Michael, is actually French (from what I know) and only was in NY for a few months (to my knowledge), took classes at SR (and a number of other studios) while here. While I don't know him well, I wouldn't say he represents any specific style of NYC. Danielle on the other hand, is a cornerstone of the SR family, but she might not necessarily be representative of NYC styling (or of SR styling applied socially), for all you know. She's just one person. Ultimately, I think you're taking one dance and assuming that it is "NY" style. That's a label I wouldn't recommend using. As for the Russian couples, I can't really comment, although I don't think they're technically very strong, and while that's not a stylistic difference, it makes a difference when comparing and in fact it's something I think you're not taking into consideration. While you may consider them musical, I don't really think they are particularly musical and in fact the second couple isn't managing to stay on time consistently.

If I had to make generalities, I'd actually say that there are multiple lines of thought within NY on how On2 should be danced and many people interpret these styles differently. I could show you 4 videos of different SR team members and each leads and dances completely differently. This is even more true when you start going to the socials, which have even greater displays of diversity. In fact, the only thing I can surely say for NYC dancers is that they generally are competently able to dance in very small spaces, are snobbish about their music and abhor doing tricks in the middle of partnerwork (ahemm).

 

[Smejmoon]

As far as I know dancer in the second video, he talks about dancing On2, but dances in whatever way he likes. Yes, I've danced with him.

 

[petteri]

As far as I know dancer in the second video, he talks about dancing On2, but dances in whatever way he likes.

He is not only one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOv1_xVkcr0

 

[timberamayor]

There is really huge difference in On2 dance styles. Here is two examples, one is from Santo Rico Social and other from probably very early hours of St. Petersburg salsa congress (first pair in the video).

New York City (Santo Rico Social)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLasXKeguzY

St. Petersburg (Salsa Congress early hours ) (first pair in the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6LSijYCmXo

Both couples dance very well even though there skill differences at least to my eyes. But that is not the point.

Interesting between these videos, there is really huge difference in style. New York example is civilized social dancing, using pretty "big" preps and dancing by the book, couples keeps distance and does not really interpret music that much.

Not much smiling or connection between them. They hardly even look at each other through the entire video. I'm sure they are excellent dancers but they don't look like they are having fun. I'm sure they had a great time they just don't show it.

In St. Petersburg salsa congress example you can almost smell sweat and adrenaline. Pair dances very close together and hits accents very well. Dancers have excellent body rhythm and leading moves are kept pretty small. There is also big difference in the role of the lady.

Too bad about the lighting in this video. Could you elaborate on the difference in the role of the lady. It may be obvious to you but as a casino dancer it's not obvious to me.

 

[petteri]

Too bad about the lighting in this video. Could you elaborate on the difference in the role of the lady. It may be obvious to you but as a casino dancer it's not obvious to me.

It is the activity and role in dancing. In St. Petersburg video she seems to dance very actively and dancers seem co-operate all the time, bit same kind of role like in high quality swing dancing.

In New York video she dances very precisely and waits patiently for leads. It is very different style.

 

[timberamayor]

It is the activity and role in dancing. In St. Petersburg video she seems to dance very actively and dancers seem co-operate all the time, bit same kind of role like in high quality swing dancing.

In New York video she dances very precisely and waits patiently for leads. It is very different style.

OK. But are they both the same style of on2 in that they are danced 1,2,3 5,6,7?

 

[petteri]

Too bad about the lighting in this video.

The video is from "dark" side of salsa, rarely seen to outside world. Latvia, Russia, Ukraine - it is different world. I have attended both Gothenburg and Riga salsa congresses. What a difference. It seems like on eastern europe good male dancers can dance as they like and best of them do it with quality. As long as they have good timing and they lead well and comfortably, ladies are happy.

In my mind "On2 dancing" gives more leverage for good leads.

 

[Smejmoon]

The video is from "dark" side of salsa, rarely seen to outside world. Latvia, Russia, Ukraine - it is different world. I have attended both Gothenburg and Riga salsa congresses. What a difference. It seems like on eastern europe good male dancers can dance as they like and best of them do it with quality. As long as they have good timing and they lead well and comfortably, ladies are happy.

In my mind "On2 dancing" gives more leverage for good leads.

I don't understand; the only common thing between Oliver and Anton I could come up was that they are both short. And the only thing that makes salsa scene different is that girls look better over here.

 

[petteri]

I don't understand; the only common thing between Oliver and Anton I could come up was that they are both short.

I meant to say that for example Oliver Pineda every know and when dances very originally. Because he is world champion and extremely good it is On2 salsa to everybody. Salsa is very rich of different styles.

Here is other example from Adolfo Indacochea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gxNN7MQW6s

 

[SalsaGipsy]

There is really huge difference in On2 dance styles. Here is two examples, one is from Santo Rico Social and other from probably very early hours of St. Petersburg salsa congress (first pair in the video).

New York City (Santo Rico Social)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLasXKeguzY

St. Petersburg (Salsa Congress early hours ) (first pair in the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6LSijYCmXo

Both couples dance very well even though there skill differences at least to my eyes. But that is not the point.

Interesting between these videos, there is really huge difference in style. New York example is civilized social dancing, using pretty "big" preps and dancing by the book, couples keeps distance and does not really interpret music that much.

In St. Petersburg salsa congress example you can almost smell sweat and adrenaline. Pair dances very close together and hits accents very well. Dancers have excellent body rhythm and leading moves are kept pretty small. There is also big difference in the role of the lady.

I think you confuse timing with style. Timing for the most part is disconnected from the style that you are going to fit in this timing. Nothing in one timing reduces or increases the possible style variation. You can dance ET2 with Cuban style if you really want to, or NY style on1, or whatever. Also in my experience people don't often change their style when they change the timing.

The four most popular styles are only partially defined and sometimes the distinction is difficult. Especially the often quoted differences between LA and NY style I find largely artificial. I'd rather talk about the styles of E. Torres, T. Guerrero, the Vasquez brothers, ETSF, and so on which are copied by their students. Or, even better, I'd rather see people dancing their own styles (as E. Torres always says).

 

[SnowDancer]

Not much smiling or connection between them. They hardly even look at each other through the entire video. I'm sure they are excellent dancers but they don't look like they are having fun. I'm sure they had a great time they just don't show it.

I noticed that 'serious' look was very common in NY, but I also see it often with high-level dancers from other places. I believe there's an old thread about this.

 

[Smejmoon]

I noticed that 'serious' look was very common in NY, but I also see it often with high-level dancers from other places. I believe there's an old thread about this.

Could it be a sign of concentration, when you dance at limits of your capabilities? Also there are cultures where you're supposed to look cool, no matter what you do.

 

[MacMoto]

I think you confuse timing with style. Timing for the most part is disconnected from the style that you are going to fit in this timing. Nothing in one timing reduces or increases the possible style variation. You can dance ET2 with Cuban style if you really want to, or NY style on1, or whatever. Also in my experience people don't often change their style when they change the timing.

The four most popular styles are only partially defined and sometimes the distinction is difficult. Especially the often quoted differences between LA and NY style I find largely artificial. I'd rather talk about the styles of E. Torres, T. Guerrero, the Vasquez brothers, ETSF, and so on which are copied by their students. Or, even better, I'd rather see people dancing their own styles (as E. Torres always says).

Yes, timing is a clear-cut thing and easy to see, but styles are something else.

In addition to regional styles, school styles and personal styles, don't forget an accomplished dancer may have a range to suit different music and partners.

Here are two video clips of Oliver Pineda dancing to different songs and with different partners, both on2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a-xEjy0us0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqEjkcdJvEY

 

[timberamayor]

I noticed that 'serious' look was very common in NY, but I also see it often with high-level dancers from other places. I believe there's an old thread about this.

Yeah I just wouldn't fit in to the New York scene (another reason I think I would never have started dancing salsa if I'd stayed in the the US). I like to smile, laugh and sometimes sing along when I dance so I'm totally un-cool.

 

[tallpaul]

I like to do all those things too, but I love NY style dancing... But in between the chuckles, I try to pretend to have some class

 

[DJ Yuca]

Yeah I just wouldn't fit in to the New York scene (another reason I think I would never have started dancing salsa if I'd stayed in the the US). I like to smile, laugh and sometimes sing along when I dance so I'm totally un-cool.

Makes you cool imo. I'm sure in a NY salsa/mambo club frequented by old timers such behaviour would be common.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoTjI7LsTmM

 

[thepresenceon2]

Uhm i think you guys are extrapolating too much from one dance. I've seen the same dancer smile and laugh while in the middle of dances. He didnt in this one doesnt mean he never does. I tend to laugh, smile, sing etc while dancing and I'm Ny style on2 in NY and I see that often....SO guys, its one dance thats all......