Old school dancing

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Any example?

I will have to look in social dancing video thread.

Oh remember a video that was posted here a few times of Emily and Oliver at Vegas congress a couple of years back I think:


I won't call this soft dancing.

Here is FM from 2006 (follower appears slightly slower compared to him, not a match):


Another FM:

 
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They seem to move their legs more compared to today's dancers

Exactly. But it is not only the feet. It is entire body movement. They also have more contrast in their dancing.

Plus they are moving on every beat. They don't linger for too many beats dancing in place or not moving too much. It is perfectly valid to express the music by slowing down or stretching the movements over several beats. So there is nothing wrong in my books whether someone is dancing soft or hard as long as they are good at expressing the music they are dancing too. But soft dancing in the same gear is what many have got used to. They struggle if you want to change gears and say be explosive for the next phrase.
 
soft dancing in the same gear is what many have got used to. They struggle if you want to change gears and say be explosive for the next phrase.

I don't struggle :p (2011-12 is my official salsa start year, FM-trained for the most part)
 
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Plus they are moving on every beat. They don't linger for too many beats dancing in place or not moving too much. It is perfectly valid to express the music by slowing down or stretching the movements over several beats. So there is nothing wrong in my books whether someone is dancing soft or hard as long as they are good at expressing the music they are dancing too. But soft dancing in the same gear is what many have got used to. They struggle if you want to change gears and say be explosive for the next phrase.

IMO, there are a couple reasons for this:

Have you heard the music they play now? It's a lot of soft, melodic instrumental stuff a la DJ Ricky Campanelli or Jan Rejinders. When I talk to many followers, many point to these two as their favorite artists (or songs they've produced) or some soft, cheesy Romantica (Not the good kind). This is the type of music dancers are learning with and when you play something different, they find it hard to adjust. Or they just plain dislike dancing to anything else.

I remember when Via by Al Delory was played in almost every club. Even though I think it's very soft, many dancers would try to outdo each other with spins. There is a famous social video of Milton Cobo and Isabel Freiberger dancing to this song and the dance is crazy powerful. Nowadays, people want to do nothing but sway together in the wind.

There is no need for such hard dancing in today's climate. Even the pros today who were dancing like they were in your videos no longer dance like that or have toned it down. However, if they wanted to they still could.

Footwork in general is being neglected across the board so the newer dancers can't change gears because they lack the technique to do so. For leaders, changing gears means more pattern monkeying and moving the arms more. Meanwhile the legs haven't changed gears at all or worse, they revert to an even more stationary state.

I recently danced with a follower who I hadn't seen in about a year. She used to be one of my favorite followers. She is one of those congress girls who dances very nicely, is musical but when we dance, there is only one gear. If I try to shift into a higher gear, there are connection problems. Of course part of the reason could be me. However, when I dance with a follower who has a stronger frame, better technique, more speed and power, I can change gears more frequently without the dance deteriorating into a hot mess.

But my dance preferences have changed because I've changed and I can do more now. I would be completely content with soft dancing if that's all I could do.
 
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Exactly. But it is not only the feet. It is entire body movement. They also have more contrast in their dancing.

Plus they are moving on every beat. They don't linger for too many beats dancing in place or not moving too much. It is perfectly valid to express the music by slowing down or stretching the movements over several beats. So there is nothing wrong in my books whether someone is dancing soft or hard as long as they are good at expressing the music they are dancing too. But soft dancing in the same gear is what many have got used to. They struggle if you want to change gears and say be explosive for the next phrase.
All the songs are pretty hard in the videos above, so I think naturally the leading would be more intense compared to some more mellow songs. But I like that they use their whole body more and don't seem to mostly focus on what they do with their hands. When I watch new dance videos it sometimes looks like their main focus is what the hands are doing.
 
This is where teaching how to express and release ones musicality can be very helpful to make this possible. I just see so many pattern me monkeying

I've come across many dancers who can express themselves but there are limits to what can be done. Most of the limitations are technique related. If I am feeling perky, I can vary my dynamic range and speed which will make the dance seem more 'powerful'. I don't need to just go into pattern monkey mode, but if I do, my footwork should reflect that.
 
Why is that?

I think part of the reason is that new-ish dancers see what others are doing and are just copying them. Over time, people have found more ways to cheat by using their legs less. More emphasis on individual styling may be another reason. Styling classes are much more prevalent now. But styling is based on principles from voguing, posing and body rolling, less on footwork.

Finally, I blame the sensual dances just 'cause.
 
I've come across many dancers who can express themselves but there are limits to what can be done. Most of the limitations are technique related. If I am feeling perky, I can vary my dynamic range and speed which will make the dance seem more 'powerful'. I don't need to just go into pattern monkey mode, but if I do, my footwork should reflect that.

This is where the music and melody composition is the difference of a good salsa song vs a boring/lame one. However even with the boring ones (Thinking of you; yes - this song), it's learning body movement and expression which can make even 2 seconds of the songs get danced with power. This is where I've become more selective of the songs I dance to. The chorus shouldn't be the only part which invites one to dance with energy, power and the like. Lluvia is also very boring. El Gran Combo, Cuco Valoy, Adalberto Santiago, Don Perignon have become top of my current playlist. They have a nice balance. Though I do like Edgar Joel, he is more ear candy with a nice melody but not much of that power; a good "break" artist. With limited technique, there is limited expression for sure but it still can be powerful. It also feels like an age thing. The older one gets, the less dynamic their moves (understandably) from what I've seen in the social scenes of NY.

Finally, I blame the sensual dances just 'cause.

I've felt socially, the "younger generation" are just emotionally drained from the shi-sho of the world and want to "chill." It's reflective of culture. Remember the 80's? Lots of anger and Heavy Metal was the rage. 90's culture shift to softer stuff. Even insults have become quite "friendly." But, I do feel the sensual dances have taken the "sex sells" to a new sappy level.
 
This is where the music and melody composition is the difference of a good salsa song vs a boring/lame one. The chorus shouldn't be the only part which invites one to dance with energy, power and the like.

Oh man, wait till you (really) discover timba :p :cool:

(Also a salsa chorus lover, the chorus in most salsa songs is what does it for me -- so once I discovered timba can do that in an entire song, while actually offering different kinds of high intensity within the same song...my mind was blown :) )
 
Oh man, wait till you (really) discover timba :p :cool:

(Also a salsa chorus lover, the chorus in most salsa songs is what does it for me -- so once I discovered timba can do that in an entire song, while actually offering different kinds of high intensity within the same song...my mind was blown :) )
This will sound counterintuitive, but a lot of Timba doesn't encompass what I associate with Latin Sounds. Sure, I really like the ones that are son-heavy, but some Timba songs to me have more of a Rock and Roll feel. Before Covid I was in a Timba heavy scene, where Salsa was pretty much inexistent. I much prefer Salsa dura and Son however.
 
This will sound counterintuitive, but a lot of Timba doesn't encompass what I associate with Latin Sounds. Sure, I really like the ones that are son-heavy, but some Timba songs to me have more of a Rock and Roll feel.

Totally disagree, plus I don't really like Rock'n'Roll :p

Timba is just a much more explosive Latin sound for me. If salsa dura feels like a slow burning fire that occasionally peaks into a couple musicgasms (usually the chorus for me), timba feels like an explosion that just keeps on going and going, like a multiple or continuous musicgasm :) I enjoy both salsa dura and timba, just different feelings -- can't get from one what I get from the other, and vice-versa.

That said, it took going to Cuba and seeing live timba and dancing casino for my brain to really open up to and start 'feeling' timba. Before, I didn't like it.
 
I mean, most kiz guys do more (smooth yet intense & "hard") stepping in a single song than the average salsa guy in an entire night :p So, maybe just blame BS :p

Just one of the recent kiz vids I was watching :)

Yes, Kizz is mostly about putting the feet right and a lot of freedom in it, but sorry, I didn't feel their dance as "intense" (and they even put a double turn in it). Probably because I don't feel that music as intense.
 
I really liked Timba when the choice was either Timba (the good kind) or shitty Bachata remixes. I still like it, just less than I like Salsa dura.
 
Yes, Kizz is mostly about putting the feet right and a lot of freedom in it, but sorry, I didn't feel their dance as "intense" (and they even put a double turn in it). Probably because I don't feel that music as intense.

For me the rhythm gives the intensity. Same in this one:


This one is high intensity "hard" urban kiz but I assume most people here are not into this kind of tarraxa music, for me it's all about the rhythm intensity :)
 
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