NY On 2 Beginner Questions: F.Martinez Case Study

[terence]

Why weight transfers instead of steps? Aren't they the same thing?

A step is a directional action and does not complete the action until the weight is taken, This begs the question. When and How. The answer to this is it depends upon direction. .Specific parts of the foot like Ball,, Flat ( as in whole foot ), inside edge, also, on rare occasions Heel .

The HOW and WHEN of motion is more complex than just step step,. step. HOW we allocate time to each movement has several applications best learned on a class .The timing of each movement can and does vary .

You do not need to get hung up in the weeds as a beginner simply develop a strong basic foundation and gradually implement different approaches what appeals to you .

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Interesting. I've never heard of "stepping technique" before. There's a technique to this? I thought it was just a simple walk-walk-walk on the 123-567. Mind if I ask for more details behind how or what the stepping technique is?

Stepping technique is the way you step to the counts in dancing. In Salsa, your stepping technique is the amalgamation of many fundamental elements working together in tandem. How you transfer your weight, how much you push off the floor, your use of cuban motion plus whatever elements you bring yourself..

I do not subscribe to the idea that Salsa is just 'walking' around each other to counts. There's so much more to Salsa than just walking and turning.

Ah! Now this makes a lot of sense. So you are saying that as long as I keep the break step.. the dance would still keep its rhythm and at least basic shape/form while still allowing for a ridiculous amount of improvisation as seen above in the Frankie clip? Excellent suggestion! I will focus on this more.

You should still always fully step out your basic. What I mean was that you can use your break step as a guide to mark your timing. If dancing On2, then you are marking your 2 and 6. Marking time and keeping rhythm are a bit different. To fully be in the rhythm, you need to understand the music. This is something you'll learn as you progress and dance a lot more and listen to Salsa music.

A few of us were recently discussing that it seems Frankie - at least visually - has eliminated certain basic principles in his dancing, such as break steps. This is a whole other can of worms.

As seen in some videos of his, as long as you are still doing proper weight transfer, you can still lead a dance in Salsa.

However, I do not recommend this way of dancing as taking every step, not only break steps, but every step in between, helps develop your timing and also the rhythm. Even the pauses can be said to have rhythm yet you aren't stepping on them.

For now, don't get caught up visually in what other dancers are doing, especially on Youtube. You'll just confuse yourself. Focus on your fundamentals and listen to your teachers.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Salsa basics 101. You'll love it and hate it at the same time.

 

[vit]

2.) Strange timing changes
@00:09 - 00:23 In similar area of the clip above, FM is beginning to make his right turn under the follow's arm. When he successfully completes it and brings the follower into a wrap turn, I'm not understanding what is happening with the timing here.
@00:15, FM even appears to stepping forward On1! This strange timing change lasts until 00:23 when they break apart. Did him and his partner switch to on1 dancing here?

Your observation is mostly correct. That part was a bit messy and the follower was a bit confused in some parts. It doesn't make much sense to study how someone was fooling around, but if you want, it happened about like this:

He intentionally changed the foot at 0:11 to move in direction he wanted. It's not uncommon, even Cubans do it in cuban salsa, it's also commonly used in some moves by many salsa leaders and followers on occasions although not taught on the classes. However, he returned to usual timing doing only 2 steps in the next bar

Then he started a kind of repeating CBL 360 at 0:15, doing 4 steps per bar for 2 bars (quite similar to how we do it in one move in ballroom samba), but at the end of the 2nd bar he got a bit lazy, omitted a step and did another 2 bars RLR LRL (instead of LRL RLR). At the end, he omitted one more step and returned to normal Et2 (123 567) timing at 0:21 with usual exit from CBL360

It's an old clip, he changed his style in the meantime. All of us went through various phases in dancing, the same with him ...

 

[Offbeat]

It was crazy. I started it because I began the dance with a shine, but then the dance kept going to new depths of fantastical interpretation. I felt like I was watching her as a spectator rather than participating in a dance. There were several times I tried to reel it back but she wasn't having it lol.

Have had similar experiences. I find it fun. I can go full song doing just shines, playing and responding. As long as there is musicality in it. Without any practice, I don't have half the tools I need to have good movements in those cases. But it is fun. I wouldn't want to watch myself though

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Have had similar experiences. I find it fun. I can go full song doing just shines, playing and responding. As long as there is musicality in it. Without any practice, I don't have half the tools I need to have good movements in those cases. But it is fun. I wouldn't want to watch myself though

I had a second dance with her the next night and it was much better. I'm still on the fence about some of the moves she did. Both times we danced, she grabbed the back of my head and pulled me forward toward her. Okay, it's not that bad because I braced myself but it's something I didn't expect. Does she do it with everyone or just me? The level of expression is over-the-top but at the same time it is refreshing that she isn't inhibited at all.

She wasn't always dancing either. I think people might be scared to ask her.

With that said, I would ask her again lol. She was genuinely friendly and if I were to guess, I'd say she enjoyed both our dances.

 

[Offbeat]

Both times we danced, she grabbed the back of my head and pulled me forward toward her.

Ask her for a bachata

May be you were dancing too further apart for her. Or it is her peculiarity. Though grabbing back of head and pulling towards him/her is probably the most peculiar non-creepy thing I heard.

Usually if I want the partner to move closer or move towards me as I am walking backwards (so she would walk forward), I might create an illusion of holding her at waist or lightly place my finger tips on her shoulders. Just one example. I am sure when dancing we do various things to signal closing and furthering the distance. She probably figured back of the head is the best way to do it

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Ask her for a bachata

The thought never crossed my mind but yes that would have been a good test.

May be you were dancing too further apart for her. Or it is her peculiarity. Though grabbing back of head and pulling towards him/her is probably the most peculiar non-creepy thing I heard.

Closing the distance sounds right. It went with the music. It's just a peculiar way to do it. In Salsa, I have danced very seldomly with people who are physically expressive, relaxed, musical and also aggressive all at the same time.

I am sure when dancing we do various things to signal closing and furthering the distance. She probably figured back of the head is the best way to do it

Yeah, violently lol. But if that was her way to get closer and get more connected, then I am okay with it.

 

[Offbeat]

In Salsa, I have danced very seldomly with people who are physically expressive, relaxed, musical and also aggressive all at the same time.

You have been missing out a whole part of salsa experience, please step out more often from your sterile scene kidding!

At risk of stereotyping or generalization, my experience is that it is more likely to find that mix among latinas.

Yeah, violently lol. But if that was her way to get closer and get more connected, then I am okay with it.

Tangentially, within the context of dancing, a follower can flirt/play subtle or non-subtle to beckon the leader to move closer or do something.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

You have been missing out a whole part of salsa experience, please step out more often from your sterile scene kidding!

I know it was a joke, but no thanks. I find the scene very shallow as it is. I will stick to the comfort and familiarity of the local scene and let the congress/festival people do their thing, whatever that is.

At risk of stereotyping or generalization, my experience is that it is more likely to find that mix among latinas.

Yes, I'm more likely to find that combination of traits among Latinas. Not really expecting to find it among studio trained dancers who learned how to dance outside of Latin America.

 

[mambocowboy]

This part is the most crucial. Developing your stepping technique should be what is focused on the most when you are learning to dance, but very few people actually do it.

The modification of the basic step happens naturally when social dancing, and most poeple aren't even aware. People get lazy. They focus more on patterns. They want to style more. Etc.

I don't think everyone should step exactly the same way because that would be impossible, but there should be some kind of rhythmical consistency. A good start is to be conscious of always stepping on the break step, either moving forward and back or in place. Then once you are comfortable with that (it's easy to get sidetracked and for your basic to regress so be careful!), you can add some more styling elements, but the basic step should never be lost and the counts should be clearly marked with your feet.

In Frankie's case, unless you are studying directly under him, I wouldn't try to analyze his dancing as it will just confuse you.

When I started dancing in 2002 I loved watching his videos but looking back it just confused me and didn't help. Would have been more helpful to watch YouTube basics then had YouTube existed then...

 

[Chris_Yannick]

When I started dancing in 2002 I loved watching his videos but looking back it just confused me and didn't help. Would have been more helpful to watch YouTube basics then had YouTube existed then...

It's just almost impossible to emulate his style without looking ridiculous. At his peak, he was able to float and also be grounded while still moving around a lot. Only a prodigy can attain that level of movement and fluidity.

 

[mambocowboy]

It's just almost impossible to emulate his style without looking ridiculous. At his peak, he was able to float and also be grounded while still moving around a lot. Only a prodigy can attain that level of movement and fluidity.

I tried to emulate him and looked awful. Lol

 

[vit]

It always happens when people try to copy what they think that they see ...