Multiple classes a week to progress, or nothing?

Dancing guy...

look at this simple graph.

gud_gr.gif


it has no labels on it but for the purpose of this post imagine that the x-axis is time (days/months/years) and the y-axis is perfection level (1% - 100%)

as you can see in the graph the line never hits the top mark of the y-axis (perfection)

Basically what im saying is no matter how much time you spend, you will never achieve 'absolute perfection' because art is subjective, dance is subjective and what is loosely labelled 'perfection' is also 'subjective'

additionally as per the graph, the better you get, the harder it is to get better.

I would suggest this concept can be applied to all aspects of dacing whether it is leading, body movement, move repetoire, styling.

I imagine if you asked anyone here about any aspect of their dancing they would maybe say i am good at -this- or im good at -that- but i doubt anyone would say its not -possible- for them to do it -better-. Theres -always- room for improvement.

If you want to enjoy salsa you need to realise that learning salsa isnt just about enjoying the final result as an expert its about being able to enjoy the journey
 
DancingGuy said:
How does olamalam manage to get me into messes like these? :D
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I'm asking you a question, you're going into details :)
olamalam said:
Did you start dancing?
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DancingGuy said:
Nope! Gotta give me more time. I'm a busy man. If I need to devote at least 2-3 classes a week and 1-2 social dances a week in order to progress in Salsa, then you will have to wait until there is a time when I have enough free time to do so.
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DancingGuy said:
Seriously, this is all good advice. But it confuses me as well because my instructors have given me the opposite advice. I was told that the key to success is to take multiple classes.
I trust my instructors too as they have a full proof way of doing things. And that is why I stopped dancing for now as I don't have the time to take multiple classes.
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I'm sorry to tell you but you misunderstood them! They didn't tell you that you can't improve if you attend 1 class a week.
olamalam said:
DG, I talked to your instructor. he is saying that it's good to attend several classes a week.
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Any instructor in the world will confirm this statement.

Btw, I'm glad that your instructors didn't tell you that you should attend classes everyday in order to succeed. Even I would give up salsa :tongue:

DancingGuy said:
So now.... how long did it take you to have proper body movement in Salsa? :)
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If you attend classes related body movement 3 times a week, you'll get there in 6 months. if 2 times => 9 months, if once => NEVER!!!!
 
olamalam said:
I'm asking you a question, you're going into details :)
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You keep asking if I'm still dancing when it's completely unrelated to the thread.

Perhaps, I shouldn't have gone into detail, but I figured if I did, you'd stop asking because let's face it, you've asked me that same question about 3 times already.

Let me clarify. No instructor has "required" me to take 2+ classes a week. No one is forcing me to take 2+ classes a week. It is just an advice that the instructors feel is the best route for students to take if they want to improve. But what I was told is that once a week is not enough.

No one was twisting my arm, but it was just an FYI that my instructors told our class if we want to see progress and become a good dancer. Again, it was just an FYI, but being the serious and dedicated student I was.... I took it very seriously and said to myself that if I want to improve, I need to listen to their advice. If I'm going to just ignore their advice and take only one class, I'm only cheating myself. So, why cheat myself and take only 1 class a week when it is not enough? It is only going to hurt me later on. I need to take more classes. I strongly believe in their advice because these are qualified NY instructors who've turned ordinary people into fantastic dancers. They have amazing dancers in their school to prove it. That's proof that their methods work!! If they give their students recommendation that 1 class a week is not sufficient, then I believe them.

I don't understand why it's hard for you guys to understand that I am simply waiting until I can dedicate myself to 2-3 classes a week. That time WILL come. It may not be today, tomorrow, or a month from now, but that time WILL come and I will patiently wait for it.

Please try to understand that and I would appreciate it if you guys would not derail the thread any further.

Thank you.
 
DancingGuy said:
Perhaps, I shouldn't have gone into detail, but I figured if I did, you'd stop asking because let's face it, you've asked me that same question about 3 times already.
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Yeah I know, every 2 months I'm asking you the question. Next one will be in December I suppose ;)

Come on dude, I don't want you to be NotDancingGuy.
 
DancingGuy said:
You keep asking if I'm still dancing when it's completely unrelated to the thread.
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If people don't dance AT ALL they don't get to practice body movement during dancing and they definitely won't improve over time. That's obvious. So it's completely related to the thread.

DancingGuy said:
But what I was told is that once a week is not enough.

If I'm going to just ignore their advice and take only one class, I'm only cheating myself. So, why cheat myself and take only 1 class a week when it is not enough?

It is only going to hurt me later on.
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Not dancing AT ALL means your dance muscles will atrophy, your reactions will get slower, your body will start to "forget" how to dance.

With a few months break it doesn't mean you won't be able to dance when you come back, but you will find it harder because you'll have to mentally focus on things that you did automatically before. You may have to get your body to re-learn some things.

The longer you deprive your body and mind (things like YouTube, listening to music etc) of Salsa...

When you go back in a years time (or whenever) take a look at the guys who just went once a week (even socially with NO classes) and see how much better they are than before. Or at least not worse..
 
I have a couple of friends who don't go out and dance at all now.

One did an 8 week course, was going out but then took a break and now he's quit. He's actually got a girlfriend who is a good Salsa dancer but his mental attitude is OFF. He just won't get on the floor with her and is thinking of taking more classes before he goes back to dancing socially. Though he keeps putting that off too... Reason? He's lost his confidence somewhere, because he stopped doing it.

I told him "just get on the floor and use it or lose it."

Another friend comes to every dance event possible and just stands there and watches. I asked him and he would like to dance but doesn't know how. I even offered to teach him the basic step while we were drinking there together but he thinks everyone looks so good... If he would only learn the basic and make the first step to get on the floor or take some classes to get him started.

Once you get started with dancing (or body movement) then just keep the ball rolling, the momentum going. Practice a little whenever you can and you will find your motivation to do more increases as well. Put a little into your social dancing each time, mix it up, vary it, play around and then when you go home practice a little in the mirror to get an idea what things look good and what doesn't.
 
MacMoto said:
Since this subject keeps coming back, maybe we should have a separate thread dedicated to it :P - time to split this thread maybe?
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Add relevant posts to the beginners hell thread? It's more related to that? And it is all part of the dancing guy's story, which is the best read on the forum, would be good to have all the advice together.....
 
MacMoto said:
Since this subject keeps coming back, maybe we should have a separate thread dedicated to it :P - time to split this thread maybe?
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Yes, so sorry for this. I guess I get too detailed and personal in my posts and people here get concerned about my well-being, so people chime in and try to post helpful responses hoping it would make things better for me. I think it's very nice of people here to help me out by giving me some helpful advice.

Anyways, feel free to split the thread.

And azzey, that was a great story about your friend and it did give me a wake up call. You make a good point. Thanks!
 
Ok seriously Dancing Guy, please get off this obsession with being 'good', it will neg you out time and time again. The bottom line is this: If you want to become 'good' then you'll have to dance your ass off for YEARS! Then even when you're that good you'll still meet other dancers that will be hard to dance with who are also good. Meaning, being good hardly solves anything. It's all about having fun and enjoying the music. So stop with all this being good nonsense and concentrate on being servicable, if not looking toward being solid. Take the one class if that's all you've got time for, maybe you wont get good but you'll at least learn to be somewhat comfortable, you'll continue to learn something as opposed to nothing. Trust me, I've lost out big time (not in salsa dancing) by having a similar, if not exact same outlook, even though I couldn't find the time to get good, I should have kept on, doing what I could and I would be radically more well off in my life right now.

On a side note I would like to explicate something your teachers didn't really go into about time and getting good. It's true that to advance beyond the beginner to intermediate stage you're going to have to dance more than once a week on a fairly consistent basis. However, what really happens is that as you continue to progress there will be certain times when you'll be on the cusp. If you pay any attention you'll know these times, it's then that there will be a chance to really solidify you're learned skills and make room for new skills. It's those times when you'll need to dance 2 or 3 times a week minimum to break through. If you don't, chances are you won't break through and will remain at the same skill level. It's okay to miss out on some these chances, it shouldn't deter anyone, other chances will arise and eventually, if one has devotion and doesn't neg out, then that person will get to that next place they need to be. To summise: when you're starting to really feel it, starting to 'get it', dance as much as possible, then you'll get good.
 
hmm...interesting. I think that regular "good" instruction is required to make progress. This can be once a week, but what is important is what you do outside class. You can take a class once a week, go out dancing once a week, listen to the music whenever possible, practice what you learned in class and make great progress. It is the whole package, and not just one component.
 
What people define as "good" changes as you progress... as you become more aware of yourself and other dancers you subconsciously move the goal posts. So what started as a one year goal of wanting to be able to dance with the better dancers becomes a never ending journey.


Good = experienced. Very good = very experienced.

The bigger issue is that you can't skip from "bad" to "good", "good" to "great", or "just ok" to "better" by just learning things mentally from a class, you have to put in the time on the social dance floor (unless you only intend to dance in class for your whole life).

Whether it's once a week over a longer period or multiple times a week over a shorter period.


Classes are just one way to learn something to work on during your social dancing. There are many others and some are more efficient than classes.
 
DancingGuy said:
How does olamalam manage to get me into messes like these? :D

Seriously, this is all good advice. But it confuses me as well because my instructors have given me the opposite advice.
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A suggestion: I think the school you attended is great (based on dropping in a few times for weekend classes), but it isn't compatible with your schedule. You could try BaSo, where all the classes are drop-in, and I've never heard them tell anyone that they had to attend at a certain rate. And, hey, the last time I went there, Jimmy Bosch was in the class.:)
 
I think that my fellow members have already given good advice in their replies to your, but I still like to add my two cents to a few points that you mentioned.

DancingGuy said:
Again, it was just an FYI, but being the serious and dedicated student I was.... I took it very seriously and said to myself that if I want to improve, I need to listen to their advice. If I'm going to just ignore their advice and take only one class, I'm only cheating myself.
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While I can see that you want to respect the advice that you've got from your instructors, you're ignoring in my opinion too the advice and stories from others. There are situations in life, where you receive a piece of advice from one person and the completely opposite from somebody else. But then it's in my opinion important to listen to both with an open mind and heart and then decide based on your intuition which advice you really want to follow. Also just because you ignore the advice from one person, you're not cheating on them or yourself. You're simply ignoring the advice from one person, because you know or believe that something else is better for you. Remember that every advice that you receive from a person or that you give to somebody else is simply based on your knowledge and experience. And while it might be the best advice you receive or give, it might not be suitable for you or the person you give it.

DancingGuy said:
So, why cheat myself and take only 1 class a week when it is not enough? It is only going to hurt me later on.
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First, like I just mentioned taking just one class a week isn't cheating at all. Now to the more important point, why do you think that taking just one class will hurt you? I rather think that you forget here the important point that the longest journey will always begin with the first step that you take towards the destination. So if you start taking one class a week, your taking the first step towards the destination of becoming the salsa dancers that you want to be. The journey might be a bit longer then for somebody who takes two classes, but in the end it's not about reaching the destination but about the journey itself. Also don't thinnk that the instructors and others who professional dance have reached the destination or mastered dancing, they are still on their own journey, just way ahead of you.

DancingGuy said:
And that is why I stopped dancing for now as I don't have the time to take multiple classes. I want to wait until there is a time where I can dedicate myself to take multiple classes.
[...]
In a month, I should be able to find some time to go back for lessons. As long as everything goes smoothly, I don't see why I shouldn't be able go back.
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Well, but what if things are not going smoothly? What if there's not going to be time in the future for taking multiple classes? - If you want to wait for "perfect" moment to finally take salsa classes, then I think you're bound to wait forever. There's in my opinion no perfect time to start taking a class, there's only now. And as you mentioned, you've got the possibility to take one class and start the journey. So take the chance that you're offered and see where it will lead you. If you let it pass, who's to say that life will give you another chance like this? Also if we take up a chance that we're offered, it can be a turning point and help us change the direction of our life and the way we currently life it. So why let one opportunity go, when you can use it?
 
Totally, I think that perhaps the School you decided upon, whilst fantastic, may simply be the school with the wrong underlying teaching strategy for you. (Not everyone, clearly, horses for courses, and this course puts out some damn fine horses lol)

You have access to multiple world class teaching schools. Each with a different approach. Each proven to be able to guide students to great places.

Go out and try them. Find the school that will work with your one night a week HAPPILY. They exist, for sure. Then get out social dancing wherever and whenever you can.

One thing I can say to you is this. The Salsa world is full of people attending class multiple times a week and getting nowhere fast. It is also full of people attending class multiple times a week and going places in a hurry. It is also full of people attending class once a week and getting nowhere fast. It is also full of people attending class once a week and showing their heels to everyone else because they are social dancing their little bottoms off.

There are lots of ways to skin a cat. Don't get so hung up on the one you found that you blind yourself to the other 99 possibilities that fit you better.
 
I also wonder if this may be about how statements should be qualified - with expressions like "not enough to progress" and "to be good". To progress to what? How good is "good"? You took classes with a dance company that travels around the world to perform and teach. Even their student team looks great against a lot of pro teams. Their "good" is "top of the world", and to progress to that level, yes one class a week is probably not enough. But do you need to become that good? It's certainly possible for someone to be far below that level and still enjoy dancing and have a great time on the floor. Most of us fit into that category, even ones that are considered "good" in their own local scenes.
 
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