Making Salsa Dura Harder

H

HothouseSalsero

Changui
I am just a messenger, linking to this article. I don't necessarily agree with everything in it, but I do think it makes some interesting suggestions.

descarga.com/cgi-bin/db/archives/Article22?7RmHoSKR;;146

I am curiously comment-free at the moment. I think I'm just not that interested in theoretical discussions about what should be done. I also have no loyalty to the whole "salsa dura" label.
 
Anybody check this out?

One of the biggest things I agree with here is that bands need to cut out the mediocre covers of past hits/classics that have already been given definitive treatments by the masters. I don't know enough to say where people should be looking for new material, but the suggestions seem pretty plausible. There is such a rich past in Latin music, and it could be drawn on more intelligently.
 
Your first response, yay! I read this article a month or two ago, and I thought it was very interesting! Definitely worth a read for anybody who's interested in learning more about salsa dura, or who likes salsa dura.

By the way, HothouseSalsero? Cool name! ;)
 
Wish I have read this before I started digging into dull salsa music myself. Several times I was ready to give up, because it took days to find a song I like that's not a cover song and that's not written decades before I was born. Now I know there is a good original salsa, but one also need to spend time and energy to find it. Also I've adjusted and learned to enjoy the execution. Like much of jazz is very well executed covers of old pop music.

I wonder why such focus on Cuba which I think is milked heavily by salsa industry already.
 
Smejmoon said:
Wish I have read this before I started digging into dull salsa music myself. Several times I was ready to give up, because it took days to find a song I like that's not a cover song and that's not written decades before I was born. Now I know there is a good original salsa, but one also need to spend time and energy to find it. Also I've adjusted and learned to enjoy the execution. Like much of jazz is very well executed covers of old pop music.

I wonder why such focus on Cuba which I think is milked heavily by salsa industry already.
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You can expand your research further into Colombia (salsa from various cities, not just Cali) and Venezuela which keeps releasing high quality salsa. Both countries produce a lot of original salsa.

I personally have no problem with covers, as long as one does not hear them all night in a club and as long as they are well done, with fresh and impactful arrangements, which is what happened to the older Cuban songs when the Nuyoricans and Mainland Puertoricans, got their hands on them and "beefed" them up with their own SALSA arrrangements.
 
DJ Ara said:
You can expand your research further into Colombia (salsa from various cities, not just Cali) and Venezuela which keeps releasing high quality salsa. Both countries produce a lot of original salsa.
Click to expand...

I was interested in learning that Venezuela is such a salsa power house. I just discovered Ruben Blades' song Maria Lionza, which is so cool. I found an English translation of the lyrics and thought it was a love song (with exciting imagery) until I did a little more research.

I believe Blades' album Siembra was especially popular in Venezuela, which seems fitting considering the country's current political status.

That's my kind of salsa - music of the people, rather than a Hollywood wannabe.
 
ColdSalsero said:
Your first response, yay! I read this article a month or two ago, and I thought it was very interesting! Definitely worth a read for anybody who's interested in learning more about salsa dura, or who likes salsa dura.

By the way, HothouseSalsero? Cool name! ;)
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If you you 2 could get together, you would surely warm things up..
 
Salsa Bear said:
I was interested in learning that Venezuela is such a salsa power house. I just discovered Ruben Blades' song Maria Lionza, which is so cool. I found an English translation of the lyrics and thought it was a love song (with exciting imagery) until I did a little more research.

I believe Blades' album Siembra was especially popular in Venezuela, which seems fitting considering the country's current political status.

That's my kind of salsa - music of the people, rather than a Hollywood wannabe.
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Venezuela does have a hardcore salsero community. I have been fortunate enough to cross paths with Venezuelan salsa fans/collectors.

And of course, their salsa music does not cease to amaze me. I guess a lot of their releases never leave the country. The same is true for Cali. There are times when some releases are made and are available for a short time and then they will not be seen again for the most part. I am talking about some great music.

If you like salsa songs that are generally deeper, then also check out Yuri Buenaventura, as well. There is also Cesar Mora, also from Colombia.:)
 
DJ Ara said:
You can expand your research further into Colombia (salsa from various cities, not just Cali) and Venezuela which keeps releasing high quality salsa. Both countries produce a lot of original salsa
Click to expand...

Why would you want to cover salsa at all? If I'd care about cover songs, I'd say skip that continent, go listen to completely different music, get inspired and then do cover of song that's from other genre, but could sound great in your arrangement.
Like one of my favorite covers: Nouvelle Vague - The Guns Of Brixton
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSX_3rL7THo
And original: The Clash- US Festival 1983- Guns Of Brixton
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1kynkZ-F_0

From monetary short term gain, low risk perspective, which is how most of industry works, you should cover what's already popular, but you can refresh it a bit. Which is not my cup of tea. I'm pretty sure voting by money can tell what's worst. But popularity can't tell what's best, since it takes learning and effort to be able to appreciate that.
 
Smejmoon said:
Why would you want to cover salsa at all? If I'd care about cover songs, I'd say skip that continent, go listen to completely different music, get inspired and then do cover of song that's from other genre, but could sound great in your arrangement.
Like one of my favorite covers: Nouvelle Vague - The Guns Of Brixton
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSX_3rL7THo
And original: The Clash- US Festival 1983- Guns Of Brixton
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1kynkZ-F_0

From monetary short term gain, low risk perspective, which is how most of industry works, you should cover what's already popular, but you can refresh it a bit. Which is not my cup of tea. I'm pretty sure voting by money can tell what's worst. But popularity can't tell what's best, since it takes learning and effort to be able to appreciate that.
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I think the difficulty with taking "any old song" and making it into salsa is that in salsa the lyrics also need to fit with the clave pattern, especially the coros; the accents in the phrases are supposed to fit the clave. Making that happen with random music can be quite difficult, which is one of the points Abel was making about why he was pushing Cuban music so hard. It's clave-ready.

But my personal feeling towards covers...have I mentioned it yet? :lol: ...is that I pretty much dislike them...for ideological reasons. Only on a very few occasions have I heard covers that I actually like. Almost always, if the song is good I will play the original and ignore the cover. Unless you're a cover band whose sole purpose is to do covers, why not have some ideas of your own and write an original song? The only covers I like are ones that really have made a contribution to the interpretation of the song, and I don't mean making an arrangement with trumpets and sax rather than trumpets and trombones.

I have high expectations of a band. It should have some composers and arrangers in it and contribute something, rather than copying music that someone else already did. Covers are a cop out for people who ran out of ideas and need to fill space to get enough songs on the album...IMO . I'm a little harsh I know, but what can I say?

On the other hand I think it's a great idea to look back at older genres for inspiration both lyrical and musical. But then use the lessons that you can learn from the classic songs (and from other genres as well) to make something new of your own. That is the essence of salsa, finding cool ways to combine son with other musical ideas.
 
timberamayor said:
I think the difficulty with taking "any old song" and making it into salsa is that in salsa the lyrics also need to fit with the clave pattern, especially the coros; the accents in the phrases are supposed to fit the clave. Making that happen with random music can be quite difficult, which is one of the points Abel was making about why he was pushing Cuban music so hard. It's clave-ready.
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I agree that's easier. But salsa industry has been doing this since the inception. At first I found that unbelievable how popular cover songs are and many come from some older Cuban material.

timberamayor said:
But my personal feeling towards covers...have I mentioned it yet? :lol: ...is that I pretty much dislike them...for ideological reasons.
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Heh, this might be European elitism which prefers originality in arts, that's not universially shared, especially in Carribean. ;) I learned to look at it as "standing on the shoulders of giants" if cover is better, or "trying to tan in the shade of giants". Also predictability is important for dance music, so musicians/DJs use this as an easy way to gain popularity.

In my copious free time I might *mix* some popular salsa songs with different names, where one popular respected band will play in the left channel and other in right. Already did with some loops replaced and people can't tell them apart.
 
terence said:
Dont.. ya think the title is rendundant ?.. make salsa dura "harder "
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Not really. There's nothing logically wrong with talking about making something harder. (Just look at some V****a ads.)

On this issue of covers, I lean toward being anti-cover, but I'm not nearly as extreme about it as some of you. But if it's just going to be a near replication (minus that certain something which made the song great to begin with) of the original, then I don't see much point.

I think there were some very strong covers in salsa's heyday, but maybe that's because the same people performing those covers were also capable of coming out with their own material.
 
I know that dura means hard. There's nothing wrong with talking about taking something hard and making it harder. You're joke doesn't work. Sorry.

And obviously the authors of the article know what dura means as well. It's their headline, not mine.
 
HothouseSalsero said:
I know that dura means hard. There's nothing wrong with talking about taking something hard and making it harder. You're joke doesn't work. Sorry.

And obviously the authors of the article know what dura means as well. It's their headline, not mine.
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Please.. lighten up !! . It just struck me as funny... And ,your assumption is that everyone knows Spanish ?
 
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