Madly in Love - Looking for Inspiration

M

MrSimonC

Changui
I will keep this short and sweet whist doing my utmost not to omit any key points. My girlfriend, who is both stunning and intelligent dances. During our initial dating I was completely unconcerned but as time progressed and my feelings for her intensified many aspects regarding the dancing began to upset me. I ran my concerns past some close friends and one or two others who all completely understood my point of view. I am not a controlling person and after many heated discussions we came to a compromise whereby, understanding how much the dancing meant to her, she would go a few times per month.

My real problem lies with the weekends these people arrange. They are in holiday parks, the company is called Ceroc and they last for three nights. They seem to have workshops during the afternoons and the evenings begin around midnight where alcohol is freely available, the male/female acceptance ratio is controlled and the marketing openly sells the event, amongst other things, as being a place to find romance or even more. I must be honest in as much as if the main event was during the day without alcohol i would not have as much of an issue.

Now strangely trust is not an issue for me. I just think that when in a serious and meaningful relationship that those surroundings are slightly inappropriate. She took me to one of the evening sessions once where one of the more experienced dancers told us how he and others see that pushing against womens bodies and riske touching is all part of the dance.

I know many of you will be vehemently pro dancing and I respect that but is everything in life not based around compromise? I am only writing this because I love her dearly. Thank you in advance for the taking the time to read.
 
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Its the principle Im exploring rather than the specific dance. To me all this type of dancing fall into the same genre.
 
Serious dancers are nothing like normal club goers. If I were you I'd be more concerned if she went out to a normal night club than a serious dance night. She's more likely to get hit on at least 10x more in a regular club.

Generally on a weekender like you're talking about she will dance with lots and lots of different people. Usually one dance per person, never sticking to the same person.

I've done a bit of Ceroc and it's not really any different from Salsa in the respect that a lot of it is move-move-move and often less close than Salsa. i.e. Not pressing your body up against the other partner.

For example:


Whereas I think what you're imagining is like Kizomba:




Dancing is fun but if you're concerned about her meeting someone then you have to stop her from going anywhere including to work. Trust is the main thing.
 
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MrSimonC said:
Its the principle Im exploring rather than the specific dance. To me all this type of dancing fall into the same genre.
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Yes and No.

The culture and community of each dance is different. Especially when you are talking about 3 nights of weekend dancing and what you have described.
 
MrSimonC said:
I will ....... many aspects regarding the dancing began to upset me.
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My advice will be somewhat different.

Too bad, you knew before you got involved, deal with it or move on.

I am not a controlling person and after many heated discussions we came to a compromise whereby, understanding how much the dancing meant to her, she would go a few times per month.
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Heated arguments sound like you being controlling quite frankly.

There is need for compromise, even with dancing couples, who must reassign time to devote to the relationship where dancing may have dominated all before.

However heated discussions? No, you have NO right to be angry.

My real problem lies with the weekends these people arrange. ..... I must be honest in as much as if the main event was during the day without alcohol i would not have as much of an issue.
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How gracious of you? She's allowed a social life that doesn't always involve you. That's true of all healthy relationships. She's also allowed to have male friends she might even drink with.

Now strangely trust is not an issue for me.... slightly inappropriate. She took me to one of the evening sessions once where one of the more experienced dancers told us how he and others see that pushing against womens bodies and riske touching is all part of the dance.
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No something not appropriate would be her giving out free kisses in her spare time. Dancing with folks is fine.

My grandmother went dancing before and after being married, with and without her husband. They were a very traditional, very very respectable couple. My gran would trade out my handsome but less talented dancing grandfather to other wives to get the dancing services of their husbands :P


I know many of you will be vehemently pro dancing and I respect that but is everything in life not based around compromise? I am only writing this because I love her dearly. Thank you in advance for the taking the time to read.
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You don't want to compromise, you want her to stop what makes her who she is. Stop it. Even if you don't like it, and never will, suck it up, if you love her.

I don't like everything my future wife does, and that goes both ways. Too bad. We compromise through mutual respect, good communication, and all is well.

Arguments rarely signal anything good.

I know Azzey is doing a good job of enlightening you as to the dance world. That's splendid!

However quite frankly even if you didn't like it: Too Bad. You love her? Deal with it.
 
It is not obvious to me whether you yourself like dancing or not, have you ever tried Ceroc? Have a go? show her your're interested in her dance.
 
wildbill20056 said:
My advice will be somewhat different.

Too bad, you knew before you got involved, deal with it or move on.



Heated arguments sound like you being controlling quite frankly.

There is need for compromise, even with dancing couples, who must reassign time to devote to the relationship where dancing may have dominated all before.

However heated discussions? No, you have NO right to be angry.



How gracious of you? She's allowed a social life that doesn't always involve you. That's true of all healthy relationships. She's also allowed to have male friends she might even drink with.



No something not appropriate would be her giving out free kisses in her spare time. Dancing with folks is fine.

My grandmother went dancing before and after being married, with and without her husband. They were a very traditional, very very respectable couple. My gran would trade out my handsome but less talented dancing grandfather to other wives to get the dancing services of their husbands :p




You don't want to compromise, you want her to stop what makes her who she is. Stop it. Even if you don't like it, and never will, suck it up, if you love her.

I don't like everything my future wife does, and that goes both ways. Too bad. We compromise through mutual respect, good communication, and all is well.

Arguments rarely signal anything good.

I know Azzey is doing a good job of enlightening you as to the dance world. That's splendid!

However quite frankly even if you didn't like it: Too Bad. You love her? Deal with it.
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Im afraid your attempt to character assassinate me simply did not work. There was always going to be a reply of this type and in all honesty it has fallen on deaf ears or blind eyes. I think the other contributors are providing honest advice and help whereas you offer the narrow minded predictable response.
 
MAMBO_CEC said:
It is not obvious to me whether you yourself like dancing or not, have you ever tried Ceroc? Have a go? show her your're interested in her dance.
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Hey Mambo,

Dancing is not really my thing and going to one workshop didn't really alter my opinion although I am considering giving it another, more sustained, attempt.

BTW....thanks for the feedback
 
Simon,

I am a woman--I am not familiar with Ceroc but since you are bringing this up "in principle"--what exactly about her going out dancing, or to these weekends, do you not like? The fact that the alcohol may make it easier for her to cheat on you? The fact that (based on your impression) she is being touched inappropriately? (the videos Azzey posted are very non-sexual) Something else?

Fact: probably the biggest factor in cheating, for women at least, is BOREDOM, so no matter how much alcohol she is having, if you think she might be the cheating type you should save your worrying for later in the relationship. Right now you are still in the beginning so (assuming there are no other issues) she is the least likely to cheat. When and if she reaches the boredom stage with regard to your relationship, that's when things can get out of hand, depending on her personality. And dancing will not be the cause if something does happen--your relationship issues will.

Fact: Whether or not she is being touched "inappropriately" is for her, and her alone, to decide. If she is ok with the degree of touching that happens in that dance (and like I said I am not familiar with Ceroc), then why do you think you have the right to tell her what to do with HER body? Sorry, that might have been the case in the middle ages, but nowadays women actually get to decide what to do with their own bodies. :) Being in a relationship does not change that. Or do you think it is ok for a husband to force his wife to have sex with him? (Yes, that's an extreme example, but it is the exact same principle--whether a woman's body is "owned" by her partner or not.)

Another thing--we've had many questions similar to yours on this site about people's concerns about their partner's dancing, and it is *always men* asking these questions--*never* a woman. Just some food for thought. ;)

MrSimonC said:
after many heated discussions we came to a compromise whereby, understanding how much the dancing meant to her, she would go a few times per month.
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So, let me get this straight: you were trying to get her to stop dancing completely? And now that you "allow" her to go a few times a month (which is very little for someone who loves it), you call that a "compromise" and you actually see yourself as "not controlling"? Wow... Think about this for a minute...

Where are you from?

From my personal perspective as a (young, attractive) woman: some men will indeed try to dance too closely, or too sexually--I have *never* had a problem pushing them away or leaving them on the dance floor. Whether I am in a relationship or not. Trust me, women are pretty good at handling the few jerks that show up every once in a while and they are quickly shunned by the dance community.
 
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@MrSimonC we get these kind of posts in this forum often. I've lost track of which ones are the most helpful. There's this index thread that contains links to a bunch of other threads regarding the general topic of dancing and dating:
Try poking around in there and see if there's anything that you can relate to or find useful. For example, you might find these threads relevant:
If I have time later I'll read over this specific thread and see if I can offer anything helpful.
 
@MrSimonC okay, I've only gotten slightly past @wildbill20056's reply so far, I'll read more of the thread in a bit, but I do have one thing that's sticking out in my mind right now: if she loves dancing as much as you say she does, if I were in your shoes, I would just let her go and have her fun on the weekend. As an experienced, obsessed dancer, there's nothing worse than having someone get in the way of this activity that you enjoy doing so much.

Many social dancers of many genres (salsa, west coast swing, etc etc) are used to getting intimate with friends and strangers on the dance floor, while at the same time never crossing the cheating line. It's all just a dance, nothing more. Whatever happens on the dance floor, stays on the dance floor.

For some people, it's a chance to practice, hone, and refine their flirting skills in a practice/test/game/pretend/safe environment, so that they can later work their magic on their significant other. Someone somewhere (not necessarily in this forum) said that, at the end of the day, even though a woman dances with a ton of different guys in one night, the one she still chooses to go home with is you...

Also, regarding alcohol, a lot of social dancers don't even like to drink when they go out dancing!
 
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MrSimonC said:
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Now strangely trust is not an issue for me. I just think that when in a serious and meaningful relationship that those surroundings are slightly inappropriate. She took me to one of the evening sessions once where one of the more experienced dancers told us how he and others see that pushing against womens bodies and riske touching is all part of the dance.
...
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Okay, here is another thing that really sticks out to me. You're basing your judgement of these socials off of what some random "experienced" (how do you know he was experienced?) guy told you once about the ceroc dance culture. Should you really believe him? Gross misperception is a possibility.

Or maybe what he said was completely 100% actually the case. I don't know, I'm not familiar with ceroc culture. Do you think your girlfriend would actually tolerate that if it was the case?

I know a lot of salsa dancing couples in serious relationships (some are even married), and they're totally comfortable with their partner dancing intimately with other people, because they know that it's just a dance, that it doesn't mean anything more than that:


That's bachata, by the way, not salsa (totally unrelated genres). Just wanted to show how intimate these social dances can get. A lot of dancing couples around in the local Boston community are totally okay with their partners dancing with other people like this. The two dancing couples you see in the video all have significant others other than the person you see them dancing with.

We're all just friends having fun dancing with each other.

Are the videos that @azzey posted accurate in the way that they depict and portray ceroc dancing? It all seems pretty tame to me, looks similar to west coast swing. It's got nothing on WAY more intimate dances like argentine tango, bachata, and kizomba. I wouldn't worry about your girlfriend if I were you.
 
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Sabrosura said:
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From my personal perspective as a (young, attractive) woman: some men will indeed try to dance too closely, or too sexually--I have *never* had a problem pushing them away or leaving them on the dance floor. Whether I am in a relationship or not. Trust me, women are pretty good at handling the few jerks that show up every once in a while and they are quickly shunned by the dance community.
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I will vouch for this, @Sabrosura is quite the young hottie! ;) :D

And yes, if experienced social dancing girls don't like you dancing intimately with them, they will make it quite obvious that they would like more personal space, even if it means that they have to physically force you away and walk off the dance floor.
 
So, I've read the whole thread now, and I agree with a lot of the arguments that other members have brought up, even if the delivery of some of those arguments wasn't on the sensitive/tactful/delicate/diplomatic side.

If you're already worried about your girlfriend cheating on you, is stopping her from going dancing when she wants to really going to stop her from cheating? Sounds to me like it's just going to make her more likely to cheat or breakup. (But also keep in mind, I don't know your girlfriend).

Also, going dancing only a few times a month sounds really sucky. I go out dancing at least once a week, and even that isn't enough. I used to go out dancing at least 3-4 times a week.

That's a really tough compromise to swallow (at least, it would be for me). For me, that would be a really big sacrifice of something that makes my life worth living and gets me through my days.

So...I'm not sure if any of this has been helpful for you (has it?). Is there any other way you think we could help?
 
Here's a good quote from DJ Yuca from the Should I be upset that my girlfriend dances (salsa) with other men? thread:
DJ Yuca said:
This is a perennial on here; use the search function, I'm afraid I can't remember the titles of previous threads. Remember salsa is a pretty sober scene, so for all the body contact that occurs, no one's likely to do something because they're under the influence of alcohol/illegal substances. So compared to your lady going out binge drinking with 'the girls', you're better off with her dancing salsa. (Not that I'm suggesting your gf would do anything remiss if she were drunk.) I know plenty of ladies who are dedicated salseras, and have a loving husband/partner who is not a salsero. As far as I know, none of these ladies have any interest in cheating.
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So it's been mentioned already by Azzey, but I'll say it again: social dancing in a lot of dance genres is often more conservative than a night out on the town drinking and dancing at regular clubs. Ceroc looks like a dance with plenty of room for Jesus in the middle, according to Azzey's videos. It's not like bachata or kizomba, and even those are more conservative than regular club bumping and grinding.
DJ Yuca said:
Perhaps you could tell your gf that you find it hard seeing her dance, but you know she is doing nothing wrong so you don't want to stop her, however if someone tries to dance very intimately with her (it often happens, particularly in bachata and kizomba), you will expect her to keep the dance non-intimate. To me, that's a reasonable compromise, and if it were the other way round (i.e. you were the one taking up salsa) she would probably feel the same way.
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I don't really agree with DJ Yuca's suggestion for a compromise here, as I would just let anyone dance with whoever they want, however they want (I trust dancers), but I thought it might be good to have another point of view.
 
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Obviously its her own decision and you should respect that, but I can understand where you're coming from.

I would not like it if my girlfriend would be dancing kizomba. I wouldn't like it that she apparently needs all that 'sensual' attention from all those different dudes to feel happy.
Salsa I wouldn't mind since it is more like flirting. Bachata meh, wouldn't hope she's grinding it with a dude, but if it's danced normally/domincan style I don't mind. But I can completely understand if someone doesn't want his girlfriend to be dancing salsa.

This is something you should have decided from the start though. Don't be telling her that she can't dance now that you're already in a relationship.
 
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