Método del Cuadro del Casino ( The Method of the Square of Casino) MCC

[Yoel Marrero]

This is the the reason because in Son you step back: The position of Semi-Apertura, which trended to disappear from the structure during the transition from SON to CASINO. In Casino since you adopt a clean(clear) Caida Position you(the guy) and your partner are standing side by side it has any logic that if the guy goes forward she goes backward unless he does not force her to do it ore he release the lead in count one.

 

[Yoel Marrero]

The first big difference between Casino and Son estructure is CAIDA POSITION which appeared and got clear and clear because the mold of rueda(facing the center) This celan acid position is what allows casino dancers do more figures than Son, because of the forward stepping. This a concrete EVOLUTIVE gap. To develop a method we do not reflect all the existing versions among all dancers, we choose the best according with the criteria of optimization.

 

[Yoel Marrero]

One of the biggest advantages of your Method is it's standardization, however, sometimes there is significant variation within casino and I want to ask you about a couple of them.

1) Most dancers of casino agree that stepping back should not happen except in closed position. However, there's is variation on how movement forward happens. For example, you teach Enchufla Doble like this:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5-6-7 is a walk another direction

However, the is another variation where there is a step back:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5 is a step "back" (but without weight shift), 6-7 walk in another direction.

I see many casineros, including in Cuba, do it this way. My question to you, is this wrong in your opinion? Or is it OK as long as you don't place your weight back and do it only to shift your weight forward?

2) You are clearly against the kick on 4. Yet some very old school casineros sometimes use it. Example, Pepe Argote:

Is there room in casino for a kick as styling or variation or do you consider this to be strictly forbidden in casino?

Thanks for your time and wisdom.

The criteria of MCC for choosing one of several ways is as fallows:
1. Which of those ways of doing a technique has more possibilities of working in other deferents combination, It meas applicability, versatility. Try to find the advantages of every posible ways.
2. The natural coordination of the alternated oscilating movement of arms and steps.
3. When the first one and second are done, which of the ways feels confortable?(there is always a reason for feeling)
4. The logic of the dynamic based in the most elemental laws of the mechanic announced by Newton.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Yoel Marrero]

One of the biggest advantages of your Method is it's standardization, however, sometimes there is significant variation within casino and I want to ask you about a couple of them.

1) Most dancers of casino agree that stepping back should not happen except in closed position. However, there's is variation on how movement forward happens. For example, you teach Enchufla Doble like this:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5-6-7 is a walk another direction

However, the is another variation where there is a step back:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5 is a step "back" (but without weight shift), 6-7 walk in another direction.

I see many casineros, including in Cuba, do it this way. My question to you, is this wrong in your opinion? Or is it OK as long as you don't place your weight back and do it only to shift your weight forward?

2) You are clearly against the kick on 4. Yet some very old school casineros sometimes use it. Example, Pepe Argote:

Is there room in casino for a kick as styling or variation or do you consider this to be strictly forbidden in casino?

Thanks for your time and wisdom.

For example, do you think they have any clear idea of the differences between SON and Casino?
This rueda is named Son Rueda, but actually what is this?
What is the difference? Son figures I do in SON and contratiempo marking?

.[/QUOTE]

 

[Yoel Marrero]

One of the biggest advantages of your Method is it's standardization, however, sometimes there is significant variation within casino and I want to ask you about a couple of them.

1) Most dancers of casino agree that stepping back should not happen except in closed position. However, there's is variation on how movement forward happens. For example, you teach Enchufla Doble like this:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5-6-7 is a walk another direction

However, the is another variation where there is a step back:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5 is a step "back" (but without weight shift), 6-7 walk in another direction.

I see many casineros, including in Cuba, do it this way. My question to you, is this wrong in your opinion? Or is it OK as long as you don't place your weight back and do it only to shift your weight forward?

2) You are clearly against the kick on 4. Yet some very old school casineros sometimes use it. Example, Pepe Argote:

Is there room in casino for a kick as styling or variation or do you consider this to be strictly forbidden in casino?

Thanks for your time and wisdom.

MCC MAKES CLEAR what is Son and what is Casino even when you mute the sound of the video.
This is the first time we the members of COT did a rueda in Cuba, no rehearsals, no choreography. I think they are doing pretty better than the "professionals" above.

.[/QUOTE]

 

[Yoel Marrero]

One of the biggest advantages of your Method is it's standardization, however, sometimes there is significant variation within casino and I want to ask you about a couple of them.

1) Most dancers of casino agree that stepping back should not happen except in closed position. However, there's is variation on how movement forward happens. For example, you teach Enchufla Doble like this:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5-6-7 is a walk another direction

However, the is another variation where there is a step back:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5 is a step "back" (but without weight shift), 6-7 walk in another direction.

I see many casineros, including in Cuba, do it this way. My question to you, is this wrong in your opinion? Or is it OK as long as you don't place your weight back and do it only to shift your weight forward?

Check this video. I give some reasons for do not stop back. This one of the dos basic tools of MCC.

2) You are clearly against the kick on 4. Yet some very old school casineros sometimes use it. Example, Pepe Argote:

Is there room in casino for a kick as styling or variation or do you consider this to be strictly forbidden in casino?

Thanks for your time and wisdom.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Yoel Marrero]

Some practical reason for to DO NOT CHOOSE STEPPING BACKWARD as an option for a STANDARD in a systematic Method.

 

[Yoel Marrero]

In this video you can observe the forward step in a REAL empirical DANCER, I mean no a dancer involved in the business, a very representative girl of Cuba. Pay attempting to the minute 1:00 .
It is different when you dance in real live to when people stand in from of a camera to take part in an instructional video. This is why y said a Method that do nod reproduce what happens in real live is not a proper method to teach cultural facts.

 

[Yoel Marrero]

One of the biggest advantages of your Method is it's standardization, however, sometimes there is significant variation within casino and I want to ask you about a couple of them.

1) Most dancers of casino agree that stepping back should not happen except in closed position. However, there's is variation on how movement forward happens. For example, you teach Enchufla Doble like this:

Check the Mechanism that take place in "stepping move", This is the kind of principles we adopt in MCC. We do not stop on how Rene Geits did or whoever, we go directly to the principles.
If you use this principle you will find efficient ways of turning, shifting the direction of advance and consequently it will improve the efficiency of the walking action, which conduce you to FORWARD STEPPING. If you dot use this principle in the order of concat of the part of the feet when you interact with the floor you probably will not fin a logic way of shifting the direction, and this is one of the reason people step back, because of the inefficiency of the stepping action.

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5-6-7 is a walk another direction

However, the is another variation where there is a step back:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5 is a step "back" (but without weight shift), 6-7 walk in another direction.

I see many casineros, including in Cuba, do it this way. My question to you, is this wrong in your opinion? Or is it OK as long as you don't place your weight back and do it only to shift your weight forward?

2) You are clearly against the kick on 4. Yet some very old school casineros sometimes use it. Example, Pepe Argote:

Is there room in casino for a kick as styling or variation or do you consider this to be strictly forbidden in casino?

Thanks for your time and wisdom.

 

[Yoel Marrero]

One of the biggest advantages of your Method is it's standardization, however, sometimes there is significant variation within casino and I want to ask you about a couple of them.

1) Most dancers of casino agree that stepping back should not happen except in closed position. However, there's is variation on how movement forward happens. For example, you teach Enchufla Doble like this:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5-6-7 is a walk another direction

However, the is another variation where there is a step back:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5 is a step "back" (but without weight shift), 6-7 walk in another direction.

I see many casineros, including in Cuba, do it this way. My question to you, is this wrong in your opinion? Or is it OK as long as you don't place your weight back and do it only to shift your weight forward?

Check the Mechanism that take place in "stepping move", This is the kind of principles we adopt in MCC. We do not stop on how Rene Geits did or whoever, we go directly to the principles.
If you use this principle you will find efficient ways of turning, shifting the direction of advance and consequently it will improve the efficiency of the walking action, which conduce you to FORWARD STEPPING. If you dot use this principle in the order of concat of the part of the feet when you interact with the floor you probably will not fin a logic way of shifting the direction, and this is one of the reason people step back, because of the inefficiency of the stepping action.

2) You are clearly against the kick on 4. Yet some very old school casineros sometimes use it. Example, Pepe Argote:

Is there room in casino for a kick as styling or variation or do you consider this to be strictly forbidden in casino?

Thanks for your time and wisdom.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Yoel Marrero]

This is why I had asked in the other thread the question of to what music you dance. To enlarge that question, what do you define the bounaries of son moderno or son complex as you mentioned taking into account musical genres such as salsa, timba and mambo?

The name given in Cuba by musicologist is Musica Popular Cubana Contemporanea MPCC. We dance Casino with this. Timba is a comercial brand like salsa. Mambo is an specific genre used in the 50's almost for shows but not for social dance in Cuba.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Yoel Marrero]

One of the biggest advantages of your Method is it's standardization, however, sometimes there is significant variation within casino and I want to ask you about a couple of them.

1) Most dancers of casino agree that stepping back should not happen except in closed position. However, there's is variation on how movement forward happens. For example, you teach Enchufla Doble like this:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5-6-7 is a walk another direction

However, the is another variation where there is a step back:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5 is a step "back" (but without weight shift), 6-7 walk in another direction.

Think well. This is what MCC does.
Step: Casino Basico. It should be symmetric? I mean :
First Half 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction,
Second Half 5 is a step "back" (but without weight shift), 6-7 walk in another direction
8 change in direction,
??
What about if you do enchufa and the guy attempt to do a Giro de son doble in the part 567 and she step back in 5?

The "optimization" of MCC is lets do the step symmetric what we call CLEAN, not because we morally consider European Aesthetic superior, juts because we call something with homogeneity CLEAN, we could call it GREEN!!

So, we observe the result of making the Casino Basic Path(no step but Path!!) clean, it works better for every body especially for beginners, and when we go to Cuba and see what lady is eraser to lead and dance we conclude that is the ladys who do not go forward for nothing.

The other question is: IS SHE STEPPING 5 BACK because of the lead of the guy are without a lead?
in MCC the adopt the rule that EVERY STEP OF THE LADY IS LEADED BY THE GUY.

This is what a System is.
If yo adopt every irregularity then you don't have a System, you don't have a standard, and you don't have a way of conserving CASINO for 500 years.

 

[Yoel Marrero]

One of the biggest advantages of your Method is it's standardization, however, sometimes there is significant variation within casino and I want to ask you about a couple of them.

1) Most dancers of casino agree that stepping back should not happen except in closed position. However, there's is variation on how movement forward happens. For example, you teach Enchufla Doble like this:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5-6-7 is a walk another direction

However, the is another variation where there is a step back:

Here: 1-2-3 is a walk forward, 4 change in direction, 5 is a step "back" (but without weight shift), 6-7 walk in another direction.

I see many casineros, including in Cuba, do it this way. My question to you, is this wrong in your opinion? Or is it OK as long as you don't place your weight back and do it only to shift your weight forward?

We CASINO PARA TODOS created a standard according to a collection of every single variation that have connection with the rest. The infinite variation that can take place is just a devotion from the curve that explain the phenomenon.
See how MCC works.
This brand of MCC dancer make us very easy to be identified. Not because this is my aim, just a collateral result of standardization of optimism techniques.

2) You are clearly against the kick on 4. Yet some very old school casineros sometimes use it. Example, Pepe Argote:

Is there room in casino for a kick as styling or variation or do you consider this to be strictly forbidden in casino?

Thanks for your time and wisdom.[/QUOTE]

 

[Yoel Marrero]

Look this not the kind of words I use normal about technique and improvement of Casino.
You said: do you consider this to be strictly forbidden in casino
This kind of expression makes me the guy some people build around my person. But this is not may style. You can do what ever you want, actually.
MCC has its logic, I wonder if other versions are ab;e t become a system with its own logic without contradiction with general laws of physic etc. I wonder if some else can but a system to explain every variation they find in the "reality" already affected artificially by teachers.
How will be the word of casino in 300 years from now with those variations?
This is my concerns about what to take in account to built a perfect METHOD. Any thing is moral or sentimental in my approaches about technique.

 

[khabibul35]

This kind of expression makes me the guy some people build around my person. But this is not may style. You can do what ever you want, actually.
MCC has its logic, I wonder if other versions are ab;e t become a system with its own logic without contradiction with general laws of physic etc. I wonder if some else can but a system to explain every variation they find in the "reality" already affected artificially by teachers.

I think usually you are very clear in your talks about "standardization" but sometimes not so clear about what it means for something to be non-standard. Is it bad? Is it OK but not standard? Is it not common but a part of casino history (backstep/kick by some people)? Or is it not a part of casino at all and come from salsa (linear figures) etc?

People don't want to all dance the same way. They want to try new things and build their own style. If you explain some of these things, they can make an informed choice about what they want to include and if they want to include it.

In my opinion, I wish I had learned in a more standardized style and then added things later. My teachers did not give me that choice or explain what is standard and what is their style and now, I'm deciding what I want to keep and not.

On the other hand, MCC sometimes seems like it has very little appreciation for non-standard ideas. I don't 100% agree, but those people may believe MCC is too rigid. But it is true I think that although you teach that there are different times to dance with different styles, your lessons only focus on the baile de salon - after a while, that could get tiring.

PS - Thank you for a more concise answer here. It was easier to understand what you mean. 1 post with just a few sentences is a lot more clear than 10 posts explaining 1 thing.

 

[terence]

2) You are clearly against the kick on 4. Yet some very old school casineros sometimes use it. Example, Pepe Argote:

QUOTE]

The "kick " was very common in old school Mambo, but, on 1 preceeding fwd. break .

 

[Yoel Marrero]

I think usually you are very clear in your talks about "standardization" but sometimes not so clear about what it means for something to be non-standard. Is it bad? Is it OK but not standard? Is it not common but a part of casino history (backstep/kick by some people)? Or is it not a part of casino at all and come from salsa (linear figures) etc?

I said that, I gave all the reason to do not be taken as good step to making people get better.
But what means "It is OK " I am not talking about the morality of any person, I say is not OK because blablabla, And when people do not want to understand I say OK juts do it.
I admit that in science it is very easy to establish communication because we talk in terms very celar with any sentimentalism. It is oK? no it does not work! Nice lets go on researching or lies take the best solution according to some reasons. But I can not be teaching every theater around the world for free while they are taking money with teaching the best variations. There are a lot of problem in the world, for me one of the bites is MONEY, what because it makes people to think and push logic to others. If we were talking about to of the best Casino we want every body is going to agree with MCC.

People don't want to all dance the same way.
Who say that? What is the meaning of "dance the same way". Do every body have the same handwritten letter? Imposible right?

They want to try new things and build their own style.
A learner? New things? A bibbiner has this ideology or a guy who already learned something wrong and want to justify what he is doing?

If you explain some of these things, they can make an informed choice about what they want to include and if they want to include it.

They want to try new things and build their own style.
This is a complete illusion. People can not avoid building their own style.
To continnue doing and teaching mistakes to others is not building their own styles and is not giving other the freedom of building their own styles.
When I learned karate I never say to a teacher , A RAL TEACHER, let me do it my way because I want to build my own style.
Of course avery body has their own way of doing the same style of Karate.
I inform every body, I give the whole knowledge I have, all the time.


In my opinion, I wish I had learned in a more standardized style and then added things later. My teachers did not give me that choice or explain what is standard and what is their style and now, I'm deciding what I want to keep and not.

Believe me, once you learn an organic system like MCC it is impossible to dance wrong.
I don't know if you have this notion in English but in spanish we say BAILAR MAL, BAILAR MAL, BAILAR REGULAR. with any moral implication.
Some of us, I mena MCC dancers som times do jokes dancing as we don't like, imitating some famous trends, and EVEN TRYING TO DO IT BAD WE CAN NOT!! MCC bones is visible over the rest of aditions.

Yo can see Daybert, he hates me, and he hates to admit MCC, but can not avoid to show his MCC bones. He does, wins actions with his arms to look rumbero, but he can not dance rumba well neither so he looks ridicule doing that, but the MCC is visible over other auditions he attempt to do to camouflage his MCC ADN.
You can try to have your own style but the basic aspect or style that produces dancing according logical standards will be highlighted over the rest of elements.


On the other hand, MCC sometimes seems like it has very little appreciation for non-standard ideas. I don't 100% agree, but those people may believe MCC is too rigid.

MCC is accurate not rigid is exact and theoricaly responsable about every single reason to do something but not rigid, again rigid is an ideological approach.

But it is true I think that although you teach that there are different times to dance with different styles, your lessons only focus on the baile de salon - after a while, that could get tiring.[/QUOTE]

You can see us members dancing in a social in the Casino Español of my town Jaguey Grande. We are not rigid at all. But it is a true that we were the best dancers on the floor! jajaja

Check MCC dancers and compared with the rest who are not trying new things but they just dance as they can with they non optimized techniques.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Yoel Marrero]

The "kick " was very common in old school Mambo, but, on 1 preceeding fwd. break .

What is aim, the reason, the function of a kick, is real kick?
[/QUOTE]

 

[Yoel Marrero]

The "kick " was very common in old school Mambo, but, on 1 preceeding fwd. break .

I think the move you call a Kick is not a kick. If juts kick the leg will come back and maybe goes backward, it is a one leg "twist" to change the direction. This is what MCC does, to put celar the function of every thing in Casino.
See this video, is a lady a met two days ago in the park near my house.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Smejmoon]

Simple question: Why do ladies that dance casino sometimes move themselves into my left armpit when I turn my back to them and hold them with my right hand?

My guess is that there are some geometric standard patterns and when dancer is on autopilot, they just rotate like little planets around each other.