Learning with classes vs. on the ground (in a Latin country)

I wonder if there is even a realistic path for me to learn at all. If practice is necessary, but the dance breaks down before it has even got going, then there is no way ahead. And I really wanted to learn, purely out of my own interest, but it seems impossible.

I don’t know how long you been dancing or learning.

If you are finding it so unrealistic to be able to dance or adapt, you are learning the wrong way. Sticking to the language analogy, you are probably trying to communicate in a dozen different dialects simultaneously without having base level proficiency in the language. Language communication is not only about learning words, spellings and grammar. Language has its own rhythms, intonations, phrasing, accents, etc. Luckily learning dancing is easier than mastering a language.

Or you are expecting too much before gaining basic understanding of what a dance is and ability to dance. Focus on learning one style of dancing. Become good at it till you feel confident. Then try other flavors of dancing.
 
Right now I am in Mexico City and trying to learn the cumbia-based party salsa that they dance here. In theory, this should be A LOT easier than the On2 that I have practice for the socials.

The thing is that all the On2 people are dancers seem to be more or less trained in the same stuff. The language (sorry, but this is the natural metaphor for me) seems more consistent (even though I still can barely dance it).

Whereas in regard to the easier party style that everyday people dance here, I have one person telling me to indicate a turn one way, then another in a different way, some partners will accept certain moves done in threes (as my profe has taught me) and others don't know why I'm repeating the same move.

I suspect that a ton of stuff is specific to places, age groups, and schools that I do not come from. It all seems hermetically sealed and, with the exception of this forum, I have no way of getting a good explanation of what is going on and what I need to do. I wonder why I can't just learn the moves and go out to dance with people who know the same stuff. Except they do seem to know with each other, and I never do.

I wonder if there is even a realistic path for me to learn at all. If practice is necessary, but the dance breaks down before it has even got going, then there is no way ahead. And I really wanted to learn, purely out of my own interest, but it seems impossible.
I think your approach is valid if you dance with people from same school or same location. Eventually you learn the relevant moves and quirks.

If you want to travel and dance, then what has worked for me are two things. Improving quality of fundamentals and broadening my repertoire. Second is impossible to perfect, so you have to look it as a lifelong trip of learning. People dance differently and dance changes as well. Every five years people dance noticeably differently from my experience. I mean dancers who evolve, learn, who are interested in quality.

And for fundamentals it's a life long path as well, but it's simpler. Simple is not always easy, though.
Improve fundamentals of your weight shifts, body movement, musical elements, sensitivity and confidence of leading.

For example major styles have more or less the same weight shifts (quick quick slow). Directions change depending on moves and timing changes depending on style and music. But if you learn really good how to sync weight shifts with your partner, how to lead them confidently involving your entire body, it will help with all styles and you will be able to lead people without experience in your particular style. I had bunch of fun dances with kizombies last weekend, because they know how to follow weight shifts even if they don't know salsa.

Or leading - look at it not as specific movements, but think how to reduce confusion for the follow. How to position yourself to make it obvious for her where to go, how much force to give for a lead, when to start impulses, how soon follow up with next move. Where she needs visual cue, where a touch, where too many signals add to confusion instead of clarity. This is important in each dance and as you get better you'll be able to lead things neither you nor your partner expects.
And learn how to follow. Good leads follow during the dance at least half of the time. Be aware and control distance (using your own feet, not by pulling her around) , feel what she's capable of, where is her weight, how's her balance at particular time. Feel what are her desires, wishes, ideas. What she wants to try and what she doesn't like. Pay attention when she has finished a move both physically and mentally, sense how much you can pile on and find balance between interesting and overwhelming. Sense her entire body from head til heels. What are her body proportions, what comes easy for her, what not. Use that information.
Things like that.
This will help with all styles and beyond salsa.
 
Right now I am in Mexico City and trying to learn the cumbia-based party salsa that they dance here. In theory, this should be A LOT easier than the On2 that I have practice for the social

I would also struggle finding a path towards learning this ‘home style’ of dancing if I were in your shoes. The reason being is that I like structure. I learn using rote repetition. Developing muscle memory. Then once I get comfortable doing that, I can branch off and try less structured styles.

Trying to learn home style without first being immersed in the culture to me sounds like an exercise in frustration beyond even learning On2. If I had to choose, I would rather be frustrated learning a structured style, which seems like a more compatible learning style for adults learning how to dance for the first time.
 
Right now I am in Mexico City and trying to learn the cumbia-based party salsa that they dance here. In theory, this should be A LOT easier than the On2 that I have practice for the socials.
As a lead those two are very far apart, basically two different dances danced to the same music.
If your schooled basic had been casino (cuban) salsa, that would be easily adaptable to other forms of salsa dancing.
 
What is On3 or home style??? And I speak Spanish, I was just using language as an analogy for dance.
Homestyle: the style they learn dancing at home, with relatives, simple cumbia-like turns, angled back rocks as basic. I picked up the naming habit from Joel Dominguez (online NYC teacher, lives in NY but from Mexico I think). In my area they call it cumbia, or cumbia-like salsa, but I prefer his naming convention more.

On 3: back rocking on the 3rd beat of the music. Usually they aren't conscious of the fact.
If you watch, you will notice a commencing step on the 1 followed by 345. It has a bit of a horse trot feel at times
 
Homestyle: the style they learn dancing at home, with relatives, simple cumbia-like turns, angled back rocks as basic. I picked up the naming habit from Joel Dominguez (online NYC teacher, lives in NY but from Mexico I think). In my area they call it cumbia, or cumbia-like salsa, but I prefer his naming convention more.

On 3: back rocking on the 3rd beat of the music. Usually they aren't conscious of the fact.
If you watch, you will notice a commencing step on the 1 followed by 345. It has a bit of a horse trot feel at times
You are talking about a Central American style. This is more common for home style in South America

 
Also: Don't try to lead CBL. It will end in failure. When you seet up for a cbl, you will notice that they put the hand on shoulder and stick arm out. If you try to cbl, they will just do a very wide open cumbia step on the other side, either with hand on shoulder or with your. Hand. Look up the old school move "amigos". It's relatively similar. If you try to lead them forward on 5 (assuming they are dancing on 1) it will end in ruin.
 
You are talking about a Central American style. This is more common for home style in South America

I did generally describe the south and central Americans, yeah. I rarely see Mexicans dancing. They only ones I know were one lady who danced with the back rock (cumbia, homestyle, part style, etc) style, but very consistently on 1. The other,...not sure. It was a train wreck.
I gotta say that none of the Columbians or venezuelans in the cities that I got to dance like that (I wish they did...) They all do as I described, with varying degrees of rhythmic consistency. Mind you this is my experience with diaspora, and outside of Cuba I haven't seen Latinos dance in their home countries
 
You are talking about a Central American style. This is more common for home style in South America


This particular lead is proficient dancer. Having danced with ladies from different parts of Latin America, as a lead you need to adapt differently with each individual follower. You need to be able to read how they are dancing and what they are doing. Not by watching but when you start dancing with them. There are so many small variations in how each follower may be doing her thing. I don’t think the OP has yet an ability to recognize or read or respond to them.

Dancing cumbia to salsa, I seen Mexicans dance it. I don’t know if it is the same cumbia others Latin Americans dance. Mexicans dance cumbia with a lot of swing to it and more turn patterns. It is far less static. Again their individual capabilities vary widely.

All above is expected since it is self styled or home style way that they picked up without any organized learning. The level of proficiency also varies a lot. The key word and difference is “picked up” vs “learning”. The “learning” in this context is an organized or structured instructions taught through repetitions.
 
Also: Don't try to lead CBL. It will end in failure.
This ^. A linear salsa CBL is unique to linear salsa. The prep step that is taught in linear dance schools would be very confusing to a follow that has not learned a CBL in a linear dance school.

Bottomline: don't do CBLs.

If one wanted to change direction for some reason, one would have to learn one of the circular salsa dance styles and lead with a circular motion.

Btw, the "cumbia" dance style has its own way of changing direction that is somewhat similar to a dile que no in cuban salsa but it is not at all identical. One pretty much has to do an underarm turn (or similar move) for any change of direction. The follow has to have the option of moving forward w/o a break step.
 
Last edited:
Bottomline: don't do CBLs.

If one wanted to change direction for some reason, one would have to learn one of the circular salsa dance styles and lead with a circular motion.

Btw, the "cumbia" dance style has its own way of changing direction that is somewhat similar to a dile que no in cuban salsa but it is not at all identical. One pretty much has to do an underarm turn (or similar move) for any change of direction. The follow has to have the option of moving forward w/o a break step.

will probably confuse the OP :) and the last para will particularly confuse more because…

those who understand will know what you meant and those who don’t know can’t understand. Which is a big part I suspect of what’s happening to the OP too.
 
will probably confuse the OP :) and the last para will particularly confuse more because…

those who understand will know what you meant and those who don’t know can’t understand. Which is a big part I suspect of what’s happening to the OP too.
The guy in the video I showed looks to do a move that lools kind of like a dile que no. Not sure how to do that move
 
The guy in the video I showed looks to do a move that lools kind of like a dile que no. Not sure how to do that move

At 0:04?

I have done that just the way he is doing it. A light touch to change the direction. After that it is really up to the follower how she responds and moves. You as a leader just pick her up after she is done. Here she moves one step across and then turns herself. He picks her up before and through the turn. If she had gone completely the other way he could have still picked her up at the end of it.

As a leader you can’t control how and where a follower will move after you try to indicate the change of direction. Some untrained followers will not move as much as she does. They will do a back rock step and then try to face you. Heck! for that matter many on2 followers can’t do a clean and proper cross-body step through. And as a leader you can’t do anything about it.
 
Homestyle: the style they learn dancing at home, with relatives, simple cumbia-like turns, angled back rocks as basic. I picked up the naming habit from Joel Dominguez (online NYC teacher, lives in NY but from Mexico I think). In my area they call it cumbia, or cumbia-like salsa, but I prefer his naming convention more.

On 3: back rocking on the 3rd beat of the music. Usually they aren't conscious of the fact.
If you watch, you will notice a commencing step on the 1 followed by 345. It has a bit of a horse trot feel at times

Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate the details. Going to look out for this in the future.
 
I think your approach is valid if you dance with people from same school or same location. Eventually you learn the relevant moves and quirks.

If you want to travel and dance, then what has worked for me are two things. Improving quality of fundamentals and broadening my repertoire. Second is impossible to perfect, so you have to look it as a lifelong trip of learning. People dance differently and dance changes as well. Every five years people dance noticeably differently from my experience. I mean dancers who evolve, learn, who are interested in quality.

And for fundamentals it's a life long path as well, but it's simpler. Simple is not always easy, though.
Improve fundamentals of your weight shifts, body movement, musical elements, sensitivity and confidence of leading.

For example major styles have more or less the same weight shifts (quick quick slow). Directions change depending on moves and timing changes depending on style and music. But if you learn really good how to sync weight shifts with your partner, how to lead them confidently involving your entire body, it will help with all styles and you will be able to lead people without experience in your particular style. I had bunch of fun dances with kizombies last weekend, because they know how to follow weight shifts even if they don't know salsa.

Or leading - look at it not as specific movements, but think how to reduce confusion for the follow. How to position yourself to make it obvious for her where to go, how much force to give for a lead, when to start impulses, how soon follow up with next move. Where she needs visual cue, where a touch, where too many signals add to confusion instead of clarity. This is important in each dance and as you get better you'll be able to lead things neither you nor your partner expects.
And learn how to follow. Good leads follow during the dance at least half of the time. Be aware and control distance (using your own feet, not by pulling her around) , feel what she's capable of, where is her weight, how's her balance at particular time. Feel what are her desires, wishes, ideas. What she wants to try and what she doesn't like. Pay attention when she has finished a move both physically and mentally, sense how much you can pile on and find balance between interesting and overwhelming. Sense her entire body from head til heels. What are her body proportions, what comes easy for her, what not. Use that information.
Things like that.
This will help with all styles and beyond salsa.

Thanks for this thoughtful response, I am taking it all in!
 
It seems a common prejudice that in Latin America, people dance a street style salsa as they have the "rythm in their blood" while in the US and Europe people go to academies and learn something formalised. Yes, in many Latin American countries people are way more exposed to Salsa music and will do some steps at the wedding or a club. But at least in the big cities there are dance communities with people spending a lot of money on classes, going to parties where only Salsa or Timba is played and only other dancers go. And they consider the first category as people who do not know how to dance. Cities like Mexico, Cali or Lima are packed with dance schools. Like in Europe and the US, not all of them have the same quality. Normal people from those countries will not know about the dance scene in their country and newbies to the scene may think that in Europe or the US nobody can dance. But the more advanced dancers will run to the workshops when a star from Europe is in town, like dancers in Europe do when a star from Latin America is in town.
 
But at least in the big cities there are dance communities with people spending a lot of money on classes, going to parties where only Salsa or Timba is played and only other dancers go. And they consider the first category as people who do not know how to dance. Cities like Mexico, Cali or Lima are packed with dance schools. Like in Europe and the US, not all of them have the same quality. Normal people from those countries will not know about the dance scene in their country and newbies to the scene may think that in Europe or the US nobody can dance. But the more advanced dancers will run to the workshops when a star from Europe is in town, like dancers in Europe do when a star from Latin America is in town.

The above may be true re. Mexico and Lima, but you're way off re. Cali:

the Cali venues/events that play just salsa or salsa mixed with timba are full of untrained dancers.

yes the city has numerous dance academies that teach salsa, but 'normal people' i.e. those who've never had dance classes are well aware of them, partly because they are very common, and also because their focus is preparing for competitions which are watched by many non-dancers (live or on TV).

99.9% of those dance academies teach the local style, so salsa stars from Europe are of no relevance to them and do not get booked to do workshops.
 
Dancing in general is a big part of many Latin American societies, but Salsa or Timba are just two out of many genres. Other genres include other mainstream ones but also local rhythms and folklor.
 
Back
Top