Learning to dance: multi-tasking

S

SalsaNerd

Changui
So it's one thing to learn how to keep time, find the 1 or 2, etc. But how about leading and initiating turns while also staying on time: what are some good exercises or strategies? Any learners or instructors here that have had difficulty with coordinating everything and keeping it all together?

I'm practicing a lot on my own right now, so I'll have to wait to find a dance partner to find out just how uncoordinated I've become, but I worry that while I may have no problem with timing dancing by myself, once I start to dance with a partner again it will all come apart.
 
I think I can answer this from my own experience.

When I was learning to dance on2 I practically had to learn on my own. I live in a on1 heavy scene so going out to social more was not really helpful. There were follows out there who could follow on2 but I didn't want to hog them the whole night just to practice(kinda rude).

Anyway here are my suggestions based on my experience:

1. You can use this forum to ask more questions about timing, especially with instruments.

2. Get 3 - 5 songs that you like and get familiar with them. Count out the songs in your head.

3. Use these same songs to go through your patterns as you shadow lead. Remember to maintain your posture, hand position, and go through the whole motion of the pattern. DON'T GET LAZY HERE. It will cost you.

4. When you go out social dancing, you'll find that most patterns are pretty easy to lead. The HARD part is getting a feel of where the follows weight is shifting so you can perform the pattern smoothly.

5. Create goals and routines to stay consistent. Like daily practice for 30min. Plus when you go out social dancing, make a note to yourself that you will try your new pattern 1 or 2 times with every follow.

Some things to AVOID.

1. Try to avoid patterns with multiple turns until your timing is better. You'll eventually figure out how long it takes to do a double or triple spin. But until you get the timing right just keep to single spin and simple patterns.

2. Only learn/master one pattern a week. I know this may seem slow, but over time it adds up. 1 per week = 4 patterns per month. Then in 6 months time you'll have up to 24 patterns, plus you'll figure out more from watching socials and from your own experience. Doing this also allows you to work in new patterns smoothly and you'll find yourself having more variety with patterns when dancing because the transitions are smooth.

3. You can use youtube to learn patterns, but keep it simple. If you are still beginner(6 months - 1 year), don't go watch a video of Adolfo, Terry Salsalianza, Panagiotis and try to do what they are doing just cause you think it looks good. Remember, just cause THEY look smooth doesn't mean its easy. I learnt this the hard way!

3. When you go to social REMEMBER, the follow is trying to have a good night. So don't use her as some kind of practice dummy. NOTE: most follows can pick up on a lead that using her for practice and you will start to get NO's from them. Unless they are your friend/teacher and they know, just take it easy with practicing new patterns. Like trying the move 1-2 times, 3 if you are close to nailing it. Just don't force it on them.

Lastly, have fun with this process. I'm pretty good with on2 nowadays, but I am also adding a new pattern every week. I really enjoy the process of growing in dance and seeing how good I can get. Its all part of the fun and I hope you enjoy it too.

Good luck :)
 
Maintain the rhythm with your feet. Keep dancing with your own body. Shift your weight with the same groove that you expect from your follow.

You'll pretty soon notice there are quite a few leads who skip steps, who don't shift weight on time. Unfortunately only for few of them it's a choice. Usually it's a sign that patterns they lead they are unable to lead well, so need to compromise somewhere. They stop dancing while leading. Rhythm and timing often dissappears next. Skipping steps also means sacrificing energy or connection. It gets weaker. And paradoxically it also means blocking your ability to lead complex patterns, because after some point, you can't increase complexity without improving your stepping.

So keep rhythm with your feet. Figure out where and when you need to be with your own body to make leading easier, more rhythmic, better connected.

Fortunately stepping and rhythmical dancing is something that can be done at home.
 
Last edited:
SalsaNerd said:
So it's one thing to learn how to keep time, find the 1 or 2, etc. But how about leading and initiating turns while also staying on time: what are some good exercises or strategies? Any learners or instructors here that have had difficulty with coordinating everything and keeping it all together?

I'm practicing a lot on my own right now, so I'll have to wait to find a dance partner to find out just how uncoordinated I've become, but I worry that while I may have no problem with timing dancing by myself, once I start to dance with a partner again it will all come apart.
Click to expand...

Do you shadow dance? Patterns are basically just muscle memory once you do them hundreds/thousands of times. Until you can get your hands on a partner, shadow dancing is your best friend.

It's true that a lot of dancers stop moving their feet when leading turns, which is a bad habit. Practicing them slowly while stepping out each count is good in the beginning. Get your timing rock solid before even thinking about initiating more complicated turn patterns.

The thing that will be missing is tension, but most followers don't require a lot of force to turn. Your balance, timing and clear signaling are the most important factors here.

Master all of your single turns. Right turn. Left turn. She turns/you turns. Traveling turns. Behind the back turns. Simultaneous turns. Etc. Always maintaining proper balance, timing, weight shifting and stepping motion. It's harder than it appears and doing it slowly over and over in repetition is going to help. People who don't practice at home often neglect these things and it shows through sloppy dancing.

If you are practicing a lot at home, you already have a leg up on most people. It may not look like it, but results do come.
 
Last edited:
I also found shadow dancing to be helpful. Or visualizing it in your head. But the problem with patterns seems to be that you forget them after a while. I seem to have forgotten a lot of moves since quarantine. Not that i can't do them, just that they don't register in my mind.
 
Learn how to follow. May sound odd however, if you KNOW when you are supposed to execute a move as a follow, you learn to autocorrect yourself as a lead. Be patient with yourself.

Find a few songs which you jive to, learning in and out the feel, timing and rhythm to help you do the moves with a familiar flow
 
This is what I did
1) Listened to a lot of songs with timing shown on a screen.
2) Watched videos where they try to teach how to find timing. (dance dojo and other youtube videos with count or some subscription sites where they have the songs & timing).
3) When I go dancing I do not pay much attention to timing. I do not count on my head. I just enjoy.
Enjoying the music is the key to be on time. Even if I know all the music theories but I am not enjoying, I might step ahead of the music.
4) Also being forgiving to myself and others (on the timing issues) helps a lot.
 
Wow, REALLY helpful responses, thank you all. I'm at a crucial point in my learning curve and a lot of what I read here I am going to keep in mind and outright put into practice.
 
Smiley79 said:
Learn how to follow. May sound odd however, if you KNOW when you are supposed to execute a move as a follow, you learn to autocorrect yourself as a lead. Be patient with yourself.
Click to expand...
I'm skeptical about this. Wouldn't it be better to spend that time practising leading? Also, it seems quite common that very good followers can not lead well, using their arms too much instead of frame, and not stepping properly, even after taking many classes.
 
TikiTaka said:
I'm skeptical about this. Wouldn't it be better to spend that time practising leading? Also, it seems quite common that very good followers can not lead well, using their arms too much instead of frame, and not stepping properly, even after taking many classes.
Click to expand...

Agree. Although it's great to learn both roles, I find it more of a benefit to teachers who need to teach both roles.

If strictly trying to improve as a leader, then I find it a bit strange to learn how to follow. Even if I know that as a follow, I should be doing x-y-z, I still need to learn how to execute it properly as a leader. How is knowing how to follow going to help me in that moment?

Congratulations, so you know how it's supposed to feel, but feeling and conditioning someone to do what you want them to do are two completely different things.

Rather, wouldn't it be better to learn how to adjust your lead to a wider range of followers?

My rules of leading are basically this: know my follower. Know their tendencies. Adjust to them.

If you're dancing with a follow and you KNOW they are doing something wrong, as a leader, what would help you more?

a) stop the follower and show them the correct technique because you know it?
b) adjust your leading because you are simply good at adjusting to any follower?
c) magically put yourself in the shoes of the follower and take control of their body?

I will always choose b.

Edit: actually, the correct answer is c, but I haven't developed that yet.

Edit2: Regarding those followers who look bad leading and vice versa. I see this often. Yes, there are terrific dancers out there who can lead/follow perfectly, but becoming a mediocre lead/follow is not really the solution to improving what you already know.
 
Last edited:
Chris_Yannick said:
If strictly trying to improve as a leader, then I find it a bit strange to learn how to follow. Even if I know that as a follow, I should be doing x-y-z, I still need to learn how to execute it properly as a leader. How is knowing how to follow going to help me in that moment?
Click to expand...

If another leader can show you what you are doing wrong as a leader, by making you follow and replicating what you are actually doing, as opposed to what you think you are doing, then you can correct your lead much faster. You may 'think' you are replicating or doing what is shown but in 'reality' you may be off. Therefore when you are rotating, a follower can tell you are doing it differently (and wrongly) from other leaders. I don't know whether you call that as "knowing how to follow".

At the same time, I also agree that "knowing" how to follow will have only a marginal impact on your ability to improve the leading skills. The marginal improvement it can bring is that as a leader you know how follower's movement/balance is and therefore know how the less skilled followers will cause a delay (maybe compensate by leading early). As I said it is very marginal. An experienced lead can also gauge the same based on accumulated experience.

Therefore I differentiate between "learning to follow" which can be beneficial in being a leader and "knowing how to follow" which to me implies learning plus regularly dancing as a follower.
 
Sure, learning how to follow. I only spent probably a month (total) or two needing to follow (classes stripped of followers) I can easily say having experienced different types of leads and awareness of how I have lead what, it has made me more mindful of how to lead applying the bell curve. Yea, each partner is different however, there is a range of leading styles which most dancers can follow. By following others, I got to experience subtle changes how other leads used energy, positioning creativity to incorporate into my own. Watching is one thing, experience from the other side is another. I would not recommend long term following for leaders (as it does get confusing AF) but having been lead has definitely expedited some kinks in my leading. I would not recommend "switch hitting" for long term. Once you learn the move as a leader, experience the move as a follow and get a quick feel of the subtle differences. I attribute it to my early life where we trained as the attacker and defender you learn to take and apply subtle adjustments.

After writing this, I should have been specific (and more correct) as it relates to connection and energy, not pattern-centric.

Gah,he's practicing alone... Back to the drawing board...
 
Last edited:
Chris_Yannick said:
Agree. Although it's great to learn both roles, I find it more of a benefit to teachers who need to teach both roles.

If strictly trying to improve as a leader, then I find it a bit strange to learn how to follow. Even if I know that as a follow, I should be doing x-y-z, I still need to learn how to execute it properly as a leader. How is learning how to follow going to help me in that moment?

Congratulations, you know how it's supposed to feel, but feeling and conditioning someone to do what you want them to do are two completely different things.

Rather, wouldn't it be better to learn how to adjust your lead to a wider range of followers?

If you're dancing with a follow and you KNOW they are doing something wrong, as a leader, what would help you more?

a) stop the follower and show them the correct technique because you know it?
b) adjust your leading because you are simply good at adjusting to any follower?
c) magically put yourself in the shoes of the follower and take control of their body?

I will always choose b.

Edit: actually, the correct answer is c, but I haven't developed that yet.
Click to expand...
I don't understand C but i agree.


Smiley79 said:
Sure, learning how to follow. I only spent probably a month (total) or two needing to follow (classes stripped of followers) I can easily say having experienced different types of leads and awareness of how I have lead what, it has made me more mindful of how to lead applying the bell curve. Yea, each partner is different however, there is a range of leading styles which most dancers can follow. By following others, I got to experience subtle changes how other leads used energy, positioning creativity to incorporate into my own. Watching is one thing, experience from the other side is another. I would not recommend long term following for leaders (as it does get confusing AF) but having been lead has definitely expedited some kinks in my leading. I would not recommend "switch hitting" for long term. Once you learn the move as a leader, experience the move as a follow and get a quick feel of the subtle differences. I attribute it to my early life where we trained as the attacker and defender you learn to take and apply subtle adjustments.

After writing this, I should have been specific (and more correct) as it relates to connection and energy, not pattern-centric.

Gah,he's practicing alone... Back to the drawing board...
Click to expand...
I don't disagree that it can be helpful. But at the stage where multi-tasking is a problem, adding something completely new to the mix seems more confusing, to me at least. Even just taking too many classes (as a lead) can make your brain fatigue and not work properly.
 
In a way following does help leading. It helps to understand why are you doing something and puts leading in context.
It possible for someone to learn how to write without being able to read, but reading sure helps to improve.
 
Smejmoon said:
In a way following does help leading. It helps to understand why are you doing something and puts leading in context.
It possible for someone to learn how to write without being able to read, but reading sure helps to improve.
Click to expand...

Wow, I had students in a middle school with this issue and none of the screening showed any cognitive or neurological issues. Mind you, I observed the teachers spending half the class time as behavioral moderators...
 
Offbeat said:
If another leader can show you what you are doing wrong as a leader, by making you follow and replicating what you are actually doing, as opposed to what you think you are doing, then you can correct your lead much faster. You may 'think' you are replicating or doing what is shown but in 'reality' you may be off. Therefore when you are rotating, a follower can tell you are doing it differently (and wrongly) from other leaders. I don't know whether you call that as "knowing how to follow".
Click to expand...

I would argue the following point:

Learning how to follow allows you to correct your lead faster.

No matter how good a follow you are, you can't predict what your follow will do. However, learning better leading techniques will allow you to adjust to your follower faster than having in depth knowledge of their role.

Learning how to lead many different followers prepares you for any eventuality and you can adjust in a split second if you develop your leading skills.

Nothing wrong with learning how to follow as it makes you an all around better dancer and gives you more knowledge, but I would not say it makes you a better leader.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top