Juan Carlos
Changui
In general I would say that colombians are very kind with foreigners.
Latin American salsa tourism (for guys)
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DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Why would it be their fault?
bailar y tocar
Son Montuno
Good idea. My Caleña girlfriend knows where to go in Bogota and Cartagena but I had never heard of any of the places she mentioned.
Your site should be interactive so people who register can update the information.
khabibul35
Son
Well... let me start by saying that doing something "wrong" isn't a big deal. We all make mistakes, dancing and in every day life. There's nothing wrong with having faults in your dancing. My point is that you should avoid dancing with people who are severely flawed dancers if you're in a new place if you want to show that you're a competent dancers.
As far as how they might be flawed - they don't know the dance at all or be unable to keep the beat, whatever. I'm not suggesting that these things make it so that person shouldn't be there or whatever, but I'm not a believer in the "it's always the leader's fault" philosophy.
It is the leader's "fault" if they try to do things beyond the follow's ability or aren't paying attention, but the follows can and do make mistakes. Good leaders can help overcome this and there's no reason to ever talk about it, during or after the dance.
My point is, if you're trying to get dances in Cuba (and maybe the rest of the Caribbean and Latin America, I don't know), try to avoid dancing with people who you might not be the best match with.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
I get your point, but my logic works like this: you're passionate about Cuban dance (I assume from the fact you've been over there and you have their flag in your profile pic), you've probably spent time and money on lessons, so surely if you want the real deal in Cuban dancing you would learn to dance with all types of Cuban followers, not just those who fit the requirements of how Cuban dance is sold outside the island.
Otoh what you get up to on holiday is nobody's business but yours, of course - I'm just airing a different perspective on the topic of being and being seen as a good dancer. I understand that in many respects dancing with a follower who can't conform to any structure is not going to enable the lead to show himself at his best. At the same time, there's more to Cuban dance than what gets taught in lessons, and by embracing the whole spectrum of Cuban dance it can make the leader appear more authentic and well rounded.
Otoh what you get up to on holiday is nobody's business but yours, of course - I'm just airing a different perspective on the topic of being and being seen as a good dancer. I understand that in many respects dancing with a follower who can't conform to any structure is not going to enable the lead to show himself at his best. At the same time, there's more to Cuban dance than what gets taught in lessons, and by embracing the whole spectrum of Cuban dance it can make the leader appear more authentic and well rounded.
khabibul35
Son
I agree about dancing with people who don't fit your mold, but even in Cuba there are people who just can't dance.
I absolutely agree, much better to dance in major metropolitans then in Latin America for salsa. Try Chins, that is a wonderful destination, especially Guangzhou and Shanghai.
I'm right now in Cali for salsa tourism. A few things I've noticed:
-Most Caleños dance whatever to salsa music. They'll be off-time. The don't know linear salsa(on 1 or on2) or Cuban. A lot of followers feel very heavy, and it's just tiring to lead them. Some will even try to order you around(Do this, do that). Even if you learn "salsa caleña" in some studio, you'll get some "We don't dance that in Cali" "You're wrong". Most people dance with their couple or friends only. I don't even bother asking girls that seem to be with their boyfriend. I usually approach if I see a group of women. A good way to get a dance partner is to introduce yourself and do some small talk then ask for a dance the next song.
-Despite of what I've just said, you can have a good salsa experience if you pick your spots carefully. For instance, Mondays you can go to Brisas in Jamundi and Thursdays is Tin tin deo. Those places on those nights will have a fair share of good dancers who know what they're doing. Amazing dancing. Also, Tin tin deo will have a fair share of foreigners, some of which will know linear dancing. You can ask most girls for dances directly in Tin tindeo on Thursdays.
-Of course it's always nice to go with friends to any salsa venue in Cali. But what I've found is that most guys will use the girls in the group as a crutch and only dance with them. I'd argue for the usual courtesy dance then look towards approaching other women.
-If you want to learn salsa calena, the way to go is private classes, especially if your time is limited. In the group classes I've seen, the teachers don't really offer you good feedback. Before committing to a school, ask to see a video of a social dance a student of their did. Some studios emphasize a lot of steps, while others go for more turns and social dancing focus. Make sure you know what you like more and what does the school focus on before committing.
-Realize that if you learn salsa calena, chances are that you won't be dancing that style after you leave Colombia. It'll be Cuban, on1 or on2. It just surprised me the number of people that came to Cali to "learn salsa" and had no idea that they would very likely not dance whatever they learned in Cali back in the home countries. That said, I think learning salsa calena can help you improve your salsa, whether it be linear or Cuban. Cali salsa assumes the girls you dance with don't know to dance so there is a lot of focus on how to lead such women. I've learned several leading tricks that can be easily transferred to linear salsa to lead inexperienced follows through somewhat complex patterns. Also, there're some moves you could transfer to linear salsa. They'll look unorthodox but the timing works and they're linear(or can make the conversion to a linear equivalent without too much effort).
-Most Caleños dance whatever to salsa music. They'll be off-time. The don't know linear salsa(on 1 or on2) or Cuban. A lot of followers feel very heavy, and it's just tiring to lead them. Some will even try to order you around(Do this, do that). Even if you learn "salsa caleña" in some studio, you'll get some "We don't dance that in Cali" "You're wrong". Most people dance with their couple or friends only. I don't even bother asking girls that seem to be with their boyfriend. I usually approach if I see a group of women. A good way to get a dance partner is to introduce yourself and do some small talk then ask for a dance the next song.
-Despite of what I've just said, you can have a good salsa experience if you pick your spots carefully. For instance, Mondays you can go to Brisas in Jamundi and Thursdays is Tin tin deo. Those places on those nights will have a fair share of good dancers who know what they're doing. Amazing dancing. Also, Tin tin deo will have a fair share of foreigners, some of which will know linear dancing. You can ask most girls for dances directly in Tin tindeo on Thursdays.
-Of course it's always nice to go with friends to any salsa venue in Cali. But what I've found is that most guys will use the girls in the group as a crutch and only dance with them. I'd argue for the usual courtesy dance then look towards approaching other women.
-If you want to learn salsa calena, the way to go is private classes, especially if your time is limited. In the group classes I've seen, the teachers don't really offer you good feedback. Before committing to a school, ask to see a video of a social dance a student of their did. Some studios emphasize a lot of steps, while others go for more turns and social dancing focus. Make sure you know what you like more and what does the school focus on before committing.
-Realize that if you learn salsa calena, chances are that you won't be dancing that style after you leave Colombia. It'll be Cuban, on1 or on2. It just surprised me the number of people that came to Cali to "learn salsa" and had no idea that they would very likely not dance whatever they learned in Cali back in the home countries. That said, I think learning salsa calena can help you improve your salsa, whether it be linear or Cuban. Cali salsa assumes the girls you dance with don't know to dance so there is a lot of focus on how to lead such women. I've learned several leading tricks that can be easily transferred to linear salsa to lead inexperienced follows through somewhat complex patterns. Also, there're some moves you could transfer to linear salsa. They'll look unorthodox but the timing works and they're linear(or can make the conversion to a linear equivalent without too much effort).
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Sabrosura
Son Montuno
This was my experience in Cali as well (as a follow). I was really shocked that most guys could barely dance on time, let alone lead (a lot of them had the "death grip"). The only exceptions were the ones who were pros (instructors, performers, etc) who were great dancers, but I never imagined that in Cali "la capital de la salsa" the average Caleno man can't really dance. Yes they loved the music (and the music the DJs in Cali play is indeed awesome), but dancing with them was a pretty miserable experience. And it wasn't a style difference, I'm happy to follow whatever style the lead dances (for instance though I was never a casino fan until I went to Cuba, I happily immersed myself in casino dancing while in Cuba, and actually came to enjoy it); plus I took a private lesson with the owner of one of the top salsa schools in Cali, who is a very demanding teacher, and by the end of it she was very impressed with how well I was dancing the Cali salsa steps, so that was not the issue. The problem was that non-pro Cali guys (at least the ones I saw in the 3-4 venues I went to--small sample size, yes...) can't really dance
(I can't speak for the women, but you already covered that.) Granted I went there with high expectations based on hearing how Cali is the world salsa capital, but still... Compared to Cuba, where the average Cuban is a good or at least decent dancer, Caleno men (other than the pros) were a big let-down. I'd choose Cuba over Cali any time. Cali may have great music and lots of love for the music, but then hearing all that great music in the Cali discos and being unable to actually dance to it was killing me!That's an assumption that many have. I believe it got "tagged" with that, primarily because of the Music and recording industry ...
Cali is the world salsa capital, but still... Compared to Cuba, where the average Cuban is a good or at least decent dancer, Caleno men (other than the pros) were a big let-down. I'd choose Cuba over Cali any time. Cali may have great music and lots of love for the music, but then hearing all that great music in the Cali discos and being unable to actually dance to it was killing me![/QUOTE]
dancer, Caleno men (other than the pros) were a big let-down. I'd choose Cuba over Cali any time. Cali may have great music and lots of love for the music, but then hearing all that great music in the Cali discos and being unable to actually dance to it was killing me![/QUOTE]
bailar y tocar
Son Montuno
I plead guilty as to tagging Cali as the WORLD Salsa Capital. Caleños actually only call it the Capital de la Salsa which implies the capital of salsa in Colombia.
It is true that the focus in Cali is on music collectors who are alsa DJs, a few orchestras and many dance performance shows run by pro dance teams at top studios.
As to linear dancers wanting to find linear dance partners in Cali - not a good situation. On any given night at Tin Tin Deo, the only club where linear dancers go, there are typically only about 3-4 Caleña follows who can dance linear and only 2-3 Caleño leads who can do so.
Anyone who dances advanced Cuban style as a lead should have no trouble at all dancing with most Caleñas but I have no idea what a Cuban style follow would do.
The other challenge is that the best dancers are in high demand so as a one time foreign visitor, your chances of getting a dance with all of the best follows or leads are slim. If you are in town for several weeks, then everyone has seen you dance and you get to be on the A-list just like in other salsa scenes.
I have never had any trouble getting good dances in any venue I have gone to.
Nowadays I go to clubs with my Caleña girlfriend who is actually a good linear dancer
even though I prefer Cuban. At clubs where the music is fantastic but where people go in groups such as Mr. Afinque, Siboney, Salsa, our routine is that my gf introduces herself to the other table and then I get to dance with the other ladies. The deal is that they won't dance with a guy who is with a woman because that could cause trouble here. If however the woman says it is ok to dance with her bf, then all is good.I can also tell you from empirical evidence, "they " never seem to have any problems. I used to dance, with many ex pat Colombianos in Atlanta ( they were some of the best, and NOT studio trained ! ).
In latin clubs.. SOP
MAMBO_CEC
Son Montuno
I am sure though that they were reeking with sabor and feeling the music, as we have been told many times on this forum and that these twinkle toes Colombians have more sabor/flavor than your average studio trained congresso dancerThis was my experience in Cali as well (as a follow). I was really shocked that most guys could barely dance on time, let alone lead (a lot of them had the "death grip"). The only exceptions were the ones who were pros (instructors, performers, etc) who were great dancers, but I never imagined that in Cali "la capital de la salsa" the average Caleno man can't really dance. Yes they loved the music (and the music the DJs in Cali play is indeed awesome), but dancing with them was a pretty miserable experience. And it wasn't a style difference, I'm happy to follow whatever style the lead dances (for instance though I was never a casino fan until I went to Cuba, I happily immersed myself in casino dancing while in Cuba, and actually came to enjoy it); plus I took a private lesson with the owner of one of the top salsa schools in Cali, who is a very demanding teacher, and by the end of it she was very impressed with how well I was dancing the Cali salsa steps, so that was not the issue. The problem was that non-pro Cali guys (at least the ones I saw in the 3-4 venues I went to--small sample size, yes...) can't really dance
