Just curious if you guys can explain something to me.

granrey

granrey

Son Montuno
On this video. between seconds 26 and 30. The couple does the same move twice almost back to back.

However, on the second time, She has her left arm at the back (like in hammer lock). I'm curious what the leader did differently the second time for her arm to be like that? screen shot below as well.

Thx


Screenshot_20180402-103957_YouTube.jpg
 
After a second view, he tried to repeat the same move back to back at 1:30. the second time, it seems she put the hand in her own but when he does not grab it, she tries the other hand. So are follows trained to do this?Screenshot_20180402-105714_YouTube.jpgScreenshot_20180402-105859_YouTube.jpg
 
First time: He held her left hand, and kept it low. (Follower ends up being wrapped).

Second time: He didn't. (But offering her his hand high, combined with her momentum from before, and the positioning of his body would be more than enough to lead a turn, so she turned).
 
2nd time he flicked her hand to lead into a hammerlock. She's obviously a very good follow but yeah, follows are trained to respond to a hammerlock flick (albeit subtle) and keep it there until the lead picks it up.
 
Dissonant Harmony said:
First time: He held her left hand, and kept it low. (Follower ends up being wrapped).

Second time: He didn't. (But offering her his hand high, combined with her momentum from before, and the positioning of his body would be more than enough to lead a turn, so she turned).
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I understand her turn. I'm trying to figure how she knows to put her arm on hammer lock position.

He must have done some lead for that, her arms is too early in that position.

The second time at 1:30 it seems he had no intention in her having her arm in hammer lock position but she still dit it anyways.

Is she helping him a bit?

Screenshot_20180402-105714_YouTube.jpg
 
As I said:
He held her left hand, and kept it down.

---

As for 1:30,
he made her believe her hand should've been there, ready to be picked - but then didn't pick it.
In that case, follows are trained to keep the hand where it was left.
 
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Do you take regular classes? How about privates? The thing about leads and follows is that you need to build it up starting from foundations all the way to eventually reaching advanced. It's not something that can make sense unless you go through the long journey of learning the building blocks over time.

Don't fall into the trap of trying more advanced moves without understanding and getting into muscle memory the foundations of those moves.
 
Jag75 said:
Do you take regular classes? How about privates? The thing about leads and follows is that you need to build it up starting from foundations all the way to eventually reaching advanced. It's not something that can make sense unless you go through the long journey of learning the building blocks over time.

Don't fall into the trap of trying more advanced moves without understanding and getting into muscle memory the foundations of those moves.
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taken many. never seen that move to leave the hand at the back, neither seen women trained to do that.

I have seen men tossing the woman hand towards her back.
 
granrey said:
taken many. never seen that move to leave the hand at the back, neither seen women trained to do that.

I have seen men tossing the woman hand towards her back.
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I know for a fact that the school I used to attend always trained for the follow to keep the hand hammerlocked until the lead removes it or uses it. So, the lead could toss it back there, not immediately pick it up, and the follow would make sure to leave it there until the lead does pick it up
 
In some classes I attended followers were also told to leave that hand for 4 counts if the leader moved it there. However, I never really used it, I whether flick her arm behind her back and pick it with other or not doing it, I don't dance very complicated and follower looks much nicer to me with arms floating around than being wrapped around her own arm for a few seconds ... but it's just my preference

Leaders were also told to put the free arm around the back when they don't use it for leading ... so some were spending half of the dance with that arm behind the back ... which looks even much more silly ... but again, it's just about my preferences ...
 
Funny this video came to my feed.

This guy also does the same move twice as well at 15 secs and she does not do the Hammer lock.

But I can see why as he has the arm in different angle. In the previous video, the leader tosses the hand plus releases it a bit late (making ther arm take the hammer lock position), in this case the guy only releases it without delay.

 
granrey said:
Funny this video came to my feed.

This guy also does the same move twice as well at 15 secs and she does not do the Hammer lock.

But I can see why as he has the arm in different angle. In the previous video, the leader tosses the hand plus releases it a bit late (making ther arm take the hammer lock position), in this case the guy only releases it without delay.

Click to expand...
Hm, I don't see any toss in the first video.

In the second video, these are two different moves. The first is windmill without going into hammerlock (because he doesn't lead it this way). The second is a free outside turn.

Both windmill and hammerlock can be dangerous as you can injure the follower's arm and shoulder if you don't know what you are doing. I suggest you ask somebody qualified to show you what to do and be very gentle with it - minimal force only and release if you feel any resistance.
 
granrey said:
taken many. never seen that move to leave the hand at the back, neither seen women trained to do that.

I have seen men tossing the woman hand towards her back.
Click to expand...

Well without sounding in any way condescending - that's very odd. The move is very standard and he tosses her hand directly downwards as she's turning - she's supposed to leave her hand behind her back until he reconnects with it - this is fairly standard for improver to intermediate level salsa.

The second time at 1:30 he does the same but doesn't collect the hand right away - she's meant to keep it there at least until the end of the 8 count. Yes follows are trained to respond that way.

Have you focused your learning in linear salsa?
 
granrey said:
Funny this video came to my feed.

This guy also does the same move twice as well at 15 secs and she does not do the Hammer lock.

But I can see why as he has the arm in different angle. In the previous video, the leader tosses the hand plus releases it a bit late (making ther arm take the hammer lock position), in this case the guy only releases it without delay.

Click to expand...

In this video there is no hand toss downwards whatsoever - at no point would she interpret it that way.
 
Jag75 said:
Well without sounding in any way condescending - that's very odd. The move is very standard and he tosses her hand directly downwards as she's turning - she's supposed to leave her hand behind her back until he reconnects with it - this is fairly standard for improver to intermediate level salsa.

The second time at 1:30 he does the same but doesn't collect the hand right away - she's meant to keep it there at least until the end of the 8 count. Yes follows are trained to respond that way.

Have you focused your learning in linear salsa?
Click to expand...
the windmill is standard
the hammerlock is standard

However, I have not seen this particular thing on this video.

for instance, if I do a regular hammer lock from the basic and half way through the maneuver I release the lady left hand (before completing the hammer lock).

I would not expect the lady to keep her hand at her back and that's exactly what is happening here.

But I learned she would based on this tread.
 
Jag75 said:
Well without sounding in any way condescending - that's very odd. The move is very standard and he tosses her hand directly downwards as she's turning - she's supposed to leave her hand behind her back until he reconnects with it - this is fairly standard for improver to intermediate level salsa.

The second time at 1:30 he does the same but doesn't collect the hand right away - she's meant to keep it there at least until the end of the 8 count. Yes follows are trained to respond that way.

Have you focused your learning in linear salsa?
Click to expand...
I don't see it like this. In the first case there is no toss. He keeps the hand down so that it gets wrapped in hammerlock. In the second case he actually doesn't lead the hammerlock at all just hints about it with the movement of his hand. She guesses that she should do hammerlock but it's not actually led so here you can get different responses from different followers.
 
SalsaGipsy said:
I don't see it like this. In the first case there is no toss. He keeps the hand down so that it gets wrapped in hammerlock. In the second case he actually doesn't lead the hammerlock at all just hints about it with the movement of his hand. She guesses that she should do hammerlock but it's not actually led so here you can get different responses from different followers.
Click to expand...


On the first move he must release her hand. I put a picture on my first post in which you can see her arm is not connected anymore.

The second move. I agree 100% with you.
 
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