Is there such a thing as too much musicality??

Some time ago (5 years?) there was a vid posted on here of a wonderful new style of salsa dance where every move reflected the most prominent parts of the song. It looked like idiotic crap to me, although I recall others liked it. That truly is taking musicality to an extreme, although personally I would say it's not really musical. (A bit like a band where every instrument is playing the rhythm, and melody for tuned instruments, of the vocal.)
 
Can there be too much musicality, IMO no, but we run the risk of being caught up in this, I must be musical, I must hit the breaks,as if this is some holy grail of dancing salsa/mambo. It's all about striking the right balance, you're never going to hit every break, or be totally musical, and connect to your partner and protect her and engage in good floorcraft and entertain her. Like everything in life, stuff done in moderation=good. Stuff done in excess..........Even the great Tito Ortos doesn't hit all the breaks.
 
Yes.
There is such a thing as too much expression of musicality. Sometimes music and rhythm are subtle and it looks non-musical and arhythmic to try to express it all at once without regard to what the main accent is. Its the dance equivalent of free jazz.
 
bailar y tocar said:
Yes.
There is such a thing as too much expression of musicality. Sometimes music and rhythm are subtle and it looks non-musical and arhythmic to try to express it all at once without regard to what the main accent is. Its the dance equivalent of free jazz.
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I would call that non-musical if the dance is too busy for the music and doesn't match the mood and the flow of it.
 
bailar y tocar said:
Yes.
There is such a thing as too much expression of musicality. Sometimes music and rhythm are subtle and it looks non-musical and arhythmic to try to express it all at once without regard to what the main accent is. Its the dance equivalent of free jazz.
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yup I agree... it kinda becomes inharmonious.
I think phrasing and musicality looks and feels best when it requires no conscious effort. It is not appealing to me when it is obvious that someone has been trained to "hit the breaks" or someone who over does it.
 
This discussion reminds me of something Frankie has said on the topic of musicality. Musicality, taken to another level, does not mean simply trying to follow the music -- it means being another instrument of the band and contributing to the co-creation and expression of the music as such. The dancer, as an additional individual musical instrument, thus is not merely following other instruments but takes on a whole new level of musical expression.
 
Sabrosura said:
This discussion reminds me of something Frankie has said on the topic of musicality. Musicality, taken to another level, does not mean simply trying to follow the music -- it means being another instrument of the band and contributing to the co-creation and expression of the music as such. The dancer, as an additional individual musical instrument, thus is not merely following other instruments but takes on a whole new level of musical expression.
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Great, just when I start to show some musicality the bar gets raised again. :p
 
Salsa Student said:
Great, just when I start to show some musicality the bar gets raised again. :p
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Funny the quote coming from Frankie as he is the only dancer I know that can achieve that level of musicality!!! I 've heard said that in his heyday..sometimes Frankie was the music or something to that effect. I still stand by my point that you need to strike a balance and not overdo the musicality...
 
Yeah. It's very dangerous concept, because to jam with the band you really need to master your instrument and understand the music. And how many people can actually say that? I'm afraid that people start using this as a cop out and not even bother with technique and coherence in their musical interpretation and just say "yeah I'm just playing my instrument here".
 
premier said:
It's very dangerous concept, because to jam with the band you really need to master your instrument and understand the music. And how many people can actually say that? I'm afraid that people start using this as a cop out and not even bother with technique and coherence in their musical interpretation and just say "yeah I'm just playing my instrument here".
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I see your point but that would be taking this completely out of context since Frankie is really, really big on students needing to develop good technique in order to achieve "freedom" in dance.

And yes, it is a very advanced concept. And few of us are willing to put in the effort to reach that level. However, one key takeaway even if we are nowhere near that level is to start to look at our dancing as less of a mere "imitation" of the music and more of a combination of matching the music and also selectively accenting certain parts, certain elements, so that our dancing, as a whole, is not "mechanic" but is a harmonious "melody" that complements the music and at the same time reflects our "self", our unique personal interpretation of and connection with the music.
 
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MAMBO_CEC said:
Funny the quote coming from Frankie as he is the only dancer I know that can achieve that level of musicality!!! I 've heard said that in his heyday..sometimes Frankie was the music or something to that effect. I still stand by my point that you need to strike a balance and not overdo the musicality...
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For the purpose of this discussion, I think the word "musicality" referenced in the original post needs to be replaced with something like "music imitation".

Because what I described above, and others have described in other ways, cannot really be "overdone", including because it's not really something that's even quantifiable.

This thread has now turned into a "What is musicality" discussion--buyers beware :P
 
Sabrosura said:
For the purpose of this discussion, I think the word "musicality" referenced in the original post needs to be replaced with something like "music imitation".

Because what I described above, and others have described in other ways, cannot really be "overdone", including because it's not really something that's even quantifiable.

This thread has now turned into a "What is musicality" discussion--buyers beware :p
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Yes what you are describing is a different thing. But like you said, unfortunately it is a rare thing:cool: Some people think they are being musical but are not:p So in general less is probably more. Not sure the majority of people have the tech or knowledge to pull it off. jajajajaja buyers beware;)
 
Personally as long as the lead is treating me like a living breathing being instead of his personal turn pattern puppet :cool: (he can get a rubber doll if he wants to dance with a lifeless thing that he can just do whatever he wants with and that will be really, really submissive :p), stays on time and hits some breaks every now and then (or at least gives me the freedom to do so), I'm happy :D
 
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True musicality can't be for show.

There, I said it. If you're watching someone dance and you get what they are expressing, both of you are feeling the music in the same way even if only one of you is dancing.

OTOH,
It's going to feel fake and forced if the dancer is doing it for show. As an observer that semi-conscious voice will be saying: "that was too much...you're missing the point/msg of this song...its not about you".
 
Well I like to think salsa is inherently a bit showy. Mostly because it is the most elaborate dance on the planet. But I agree that you shouldn't be on a social dance floor with a performance mindset.
 
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