Is Salsa dancing (globalized slot version) is an American art form?

Smejmoon said:
He was pretty clear that social dancing is thing of the past. ;) And Cuban/NY ownership as well.

Anyway, I did not know there are salsa world olympic championships before he told me so. And I though I know thing or two about salsa already..
Click to expand...


The Olympics have not sanctioned any BR/latin style comps.
A motion was tabled in the recent past, but it never got sanctioned.
 
terence said:
I guess there's always going to be a first, but, salsa to merengue music ???? . And, the whole set up was kinda bizarre, not to mention the "music " choices ??
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's how salsa competitions look like. Pretty much like ballroom latin. Can't be different, it's competitive world
I actually danced with one follower from that final, as she and her partner are living in my area recently. I don't know ... technically very solid, but something was missing. I usually enjoy more dancing with ex ballroom girls. Also, I rarely see other guys asking her for a dance
 
Last edited:
terence said:
I guess there's always going to be a first, but, salsa to merengue music ???? . And, the whole set up was kinda bizarre, not to mention the "music " choices ??
I'm inclined to think, the last one you mentioned, is attempting Cali style.
Click to expand...

For the competition, it is caribean three dance (bachata, salsa and merengue). For the Czech couple indeed I also think they have elements of Cali but also Cuban. In fact I looked a bit more into their dancing and in the same year they competed at the World Salsa Games (organised again by the WDSF) in Cali and came second behind the Colombian champions. There you can see the Czech full routine which starts cali style and lifts up the local crowds. Here is the comp video. And I really love the final dance that everybody performs, there you can really see the true international flavor of salsa as the competitors break up and start dancing with other partners!!!! The Russian guy takes the Colombian girl, the Czech the Russian girl, etc. It suddenly becomes a social dance event. Real joy!

One more video of the Czechs that you might like, here they are giving a latin show and if am not mistaken they go from Bachata to Son and then Cuban style Salsa. Am I right on the Son?
 
vit said:
Yeah, that's how salsa competitions look like. Pretty much like ballroom latin. Can't be different, it's competitive world
I actually danced with one follower from that final, as she and her partner are living in my area recently. I don't know ... technically very solid, but something was missing. I usually enjoy more dancing with ex ballroom girls. Also, I rarely see other guys asking her for a dance
Click to expand...

Hi Vit
You are right that this salsa comp looks like BR latin but actually I think that this comp and the Cali comp are different from other salsa comps. The usual salsa comps I see have competitors on a stage dancing solo only with crowd and judges only in one direction. This is more suited for linear salsa. But the comps in Taiwan and Cali are more like BR latin comps where the floor is orthogonal and at a certain point couples dance all together on the same floor.

By the way, which one is the couple because I looked them all up and only the Czech couple and the Russian guy have ballroom background?
 
Live2dance said:
For the competition, it is caribean three dance (bachata, salsa and merengue). For the Czech couple indeed I also think they have elements of Cali but also Cuban. In fact I looked a bit more into their dancing and in the same year they competed at the World Salsa Games (organised again by the WDSF) in Cali and came second behind the Colombian champions. There you can see the Czech full routine which starts cali style and lifts up the local crowds. Here is the comp video. And I really love the final dance that everybody performs, there you can really see the true international flavor of salsa as the competitors break up and start dancing with other partners!!!! The Russian guy takes the Colombian girl, the Czech the Russian girl, etc. It suddenly becomes a social dance event. Real joy!

One more video of the Czechs that you might like, here they are giving a latin show and if am not mistaken they go from Bachata to Son and then Cuban style Salsa. Am I right on the Son?
Click to expand...

It still ( the salsa ) doesn't look "street " enough for me.. but, its a show, so I guess that's what people have been conditioned to .

The Son was a little out of character, in as it didn't maintain the circular format. Yes, It did have some traditional Son variations.

On the 1st vid.. the guy, I don't think he EVER used a flat foot, and seemed to be on his toes all the time . Even for Intern style latin that would be wrong.

Its also difficult to evaluate performance against social .

They used one of my fave songs for the slower number. I really would like to see more of that pace .
 
Ciaran Hegarty said:
To be honest, at this stage I think that their best chance of ever winning the World Cup again is to just give up on trying to build a decent team out of local born English lads, and instead concentrate their efforts on re-establishing the British Empire
Click to expand...

Or concentrate their effort on accepting African refugees who can play football. Thats what Belgium has been doing and they advanced further than England in the last world cup.
 
As far as I know, the slot/linear salsa version came from Puerto Rico, i. e. from Puerto Ricans. Puerto Ricans are all born with a US passport. So I guess it would not be wrong to also call it an "American" art form when one talks about the national territory where it came from. However, nationality and culture are not the same thing. For me, "American" as a culture means "Anglo-American". And Puerto Ricans are definitely not Anglo-Americans but Latinos.

Puerto Ricans have always danced slot/linear salsa and for them, salsa has always been a street dance. Go to Puerto Rico and see for yourself.
Here a young kid at a street festival: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTK1HlO0P6c

That is PR elegance!!! Makes my salsera heart leap!!! LOVE it!!!

And here young PR salseros at fiestas patronales (patron saint street festival):

It still is a street dance, not a ballroom dance. But Puerto Ricans believe in elegance. And when Puerto Ricans go out to a stylish dance to a fancy hotel, they dress to impress and look even more stylish!
 
salsera_alemana said:
As far as I know, the slot/linear salsa version came from Puerto Rico, i. e. from Puerto Ricans. Puerto Ricans are all born with a US passport. So I guess it would not be wrong to also call it an "American" art form when one talks about the national territory where it came from. However, nationality and culture are not the same thing. For me, "American" as a culture means "Anglo-American". And Puerto Ricans are definitely not Anglo-Americans but Latinos.

Puerto Ricans have always danced slot/linear salsa and for them, salsa has always been a street dance. Go to Puerto Rico and see for yourself.
Here a young kid at a street festival:

That is PR elegance!!! Makes my salsera heart leap!!! LOVE it!!!

And here young PR salseros at fiestas patronales (patron saint street festival):

It still is a street dance, not a ballroom dance. But Puerto Ricans believe in elegance. And when Puerto Ricans go out to a stylish dance to a fancy hotel, they dress to impress and look even more stylish!
Click to expand...

The 1st clip makes many of the "Profs " look like amateurs...
 
Live2dance said:
Hi Yuca
I see your point but I think it is unfair to ballroom. All dancers with motivation wish to add moves not just to show off but to emphasise the music in different ways. And this applies to all dances from the ballroom ones, to salsa, to swing and to tango. In fact BR maybe the one domain where learning different moves is not needed. Take for example Viennese Waltz. It only has two basic moves. Almost the same applies for professionals. What makes the difference is how well you can float around the floor knowing only those two moves.

My point is that if historically, a salsa dancer or teacher had gone to a BR teacher and asked him how should he dance salsa (in order to commercialise salsa to the US or international public) then the BR teacher would most probably come up with the current form of linear salsa. This is what the technical considerations indicate to me if we take Cha and Rumba and Mambo as starting point.
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely sure that you do see my point. I'm not downing ballroom - it is what it is. I'm not downing going to lessons or learning moves either. My point is: ballroom dancers do not learn to dance as a means to enjoy their favourite music. In this respect, the vast majority of slot style and casino dancers are conceptually akin to ballroom.

The minority who dance - in either or another style - because they have a connection to the music (I mean in their lives rather than just whilst they are dancing), and a passion for the music, are conceptually different to ballroom. Therefore to state that linear salsa is 'close to ballroom' is just ignoring the cultural basis of the dance, even if that basis is not very prevalent on the salsa scene.

I doubt there is one Cuban on the island who dances casino and spends their life taking endless lessons, idolising salsa instructors, judging the people they dance with on their ability to lead/follow an endless string of moves, and dancing for years to a genre of music without even knowing the names of more than 2 artists .Yet these are all hallmarks of the Western pastiche of 'Cuban salsa' (and of the slot style scene, of course).

There are plenty of people in both casino and the slot style scene who don't exhibit such behaviour, although they are the minority in both scenes. And they are the ones who are removed from the ballroom mentality.
 
So I looked at some videos of him dancing and understood why he needs so badly to convince his students salsa has nothing to do with latin haha
the reason ? it had been discussed here zillion times in the musicality/sabor/technique threads :rolleyes: so for me it's just his 'excuse' rs
 
kbitten said:
So I looked at some videos of him dancing and understood why he needs so badly to convince his students salsa has nothing to do with latin haha
the reason ? it had been discussed here zillion times in the musicality/sabor/technique threads :rolleyes: so for me it's just his 'excuse' rs
Click to expand...

Since you are passing a judgement, I need to go look at some videos on youtube of his :)
 
vit said:
So what are the objections? Salsa clip is surely far from technical perfection, but quite funny. Cha cha cha clip boring to me as usual
Click to expand...


Exactly.. Funny ?.. as in peculiar ? .. yes. But, the point was; he was setting himself up as an expert on the genre. Now...that does not preclude knowledge in relationship to prowess. but....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top