Is it best not to think too much?

[Chris_Yannick]

Almost none of the people I know that are not that much into dancing as the hardcore crowd, always leave after dancing 3 hours or thereabouts. I notice it repeatedly at congresses and socials.

If you associate yourself with the hardcore crowd, then it’s natural that you’ll enjoy dancing more with people like you. If you stay until the end of the night with the rest of the hardcore crowd, then you’ll probably get a lot of enjoyment.

I, on the other hand, don’t associate myself with the hardcore crowd. My best dancing occurs when I feel the best. If I arrive early, I can easily spot people I want to dance with and dance with them multiple times. During the middle parts of the evening, I have usually spent a considerable amount of energy dancing and could easily go home happy. By the end (meaning the last 1-2 hours), I’m usually so tired that it doesn’t matter who’s left nor does it matter if the music is subjectively better.

To be honest, I’ll be a little pissed if DJs saved the best music at the end of Salsa events.

Also, I don’t understand people who come late, don’t dance a lot early in the evening and save their energy expecting to catch the best people and the best DJ. It’s a very festival centric mentality. Perhaps it’s also true in their local scenes that the best dancers stay late and the best music is reserved till the end, but I’d hate to be in a scene like that.

At my last festival, a pro dude saw me looking pooped on a couch on Sunday night (after I’d been dancing all weekend) and said “why aren’t you dancing?”, while looking fresh and smug with a cocktail in his hand. That kind of attitude pisses me off. Get the F out of my face with that. If he’d been dancing as much as I have, he’d be sitting out too. Don’t go up to someone who looks tired and berate them for not dancing if you haven’t been dancing a lot yourself. The pros and hardcore dancers are usually like that.. so.. yeah, I’m not down with that.

Give me good dances early and I’ll be happy to go home early.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Then I reflect on which were the best part of the afternoon socials at Warsaw and Magic and other places which never go beyond 7pm. There too the best experience were back loaded though may not be the entire last hour.

If we’re talking about Festival socials, they are usually very good all the way through. It makes no sense for DJs to save the best music for the last hour of the social or for good dancers to find each other during the last hour. Leave that garbage attitude to the evening parties with the pros and camera face huggers. Afternoon/early evening dancing are for people who want to dance for 2-3 hours straight with others who are like them. No pressure, no pros, no camera,.. all good.

I distinctly remember at Magic, during the afternoon social, it was impossible to find the person you wanted because it was packed til the very last song. It was shoulder to shoulder.

 

[Smejmoon]

Having thought about it, I am not able to reach the same reasoning. I think it is the quality of the music and quality of the partners you dance with which makes most difference.

Yes. This changes from place to place. I know what you are writing about. But there are locations where good dancers come on time and music is good all night. For example here.

 

[Sabrosura]

Also, I don’t understand people who come late

So that would be me sometimes At PISC I went to the parties around 3 am (dancing went till 7 am). The reason I enjoyed the late dancing a lot more was because it was a lot less crowded and by 3 am most of the performers/"stars"/show-offs had left, so the dancers that were left were the hardcore social dancers. I enjoy the more intimate feel of the less crowded dance floor. You can also more easily find the partners you want to have repeat dances with.

And there's another more subtle thing I notice with the later hours: the energy is somehow more "focused", because there are a lot fewer "distractions" around ("stars", show-offs, etc.). I feel that the connection with each partner in those later hours is way better.

At MamboCity I went to the parties earlier, around midnight (dancing went till 5-6 am). I once again enjoyed the later hours a lot more, for the same reasons above.

Also, there is something magical that happens in that last hour of dancing, it's not so much about the music, it's a sort of "let loose" energy that leads to some really fun, totally free dances. I had my funniest dance of the weekend in the last 5 minutes at 6 am at the Friday night MamboCity party with a guy who basically turned it into a hilariously comical dance, it was incredibly funny. I danced with him again the next two nights but at "normal" earlier hours and it was nothing like that, it was "normal" dancing. So...yeah, that last hour of dancing is a bit magical like that

 

[TikiTaka]

I would say my dancing gets better for the first few hours, and after I start getting tired it starts declining.

 

[Gumercindo]

If you associate yourself with the hardcore crowd, then it’s natural that you’ll enjoy dancing more with people like you. If you stay until the end of the night with the rest of the hardcore crowd, then you’ll probably get a lot of enjoyment.

I, on the other hand, don’t associate myself with the hardcore crowd. My best dancing occurs when I feel the best. If I arrive early, I can easily spot people I want to dance with and dance with them multiple times. During the middle parts of the evening, I have usually spent a considerable amount of energy dancing and could easily go home happy. By the end (meaning the last 1-2 hours), I’m usually so tired that it doesn’t matter who’s left nor does it matter if the music is subjectively better.

To be honest, I’ll be a little pissed if DJs saved the best music at the end of Salsa events.

Also, I don’t understand people who come late, don’t dance a lot early in the evening and save their energy expecting to catch the best people and the best DJ. It’s a very festival centric mentality. Perhaps it’s also true in their local scenes that the best dancers stay late and the best music is reserved till the end, but I’d hate to be in a scene like that.

At my last festival, a pro dude saw me looking pooped on a couch on Sunday night (after I’d been dancing all weekend) and said “why aren’t you dancing?”, while looking fresh and smug with a cocktail in his hand. That kind of attitude pisses me off. Get the F out of my face with that. If he’d been dancing as much as I have, he’d be sitting out too. Don’t go up to someone who looks tired and berate them for not dancing if you haven’t been dancing a lot yourself. The pros and hardcore dancers are usually like that.. so.. yeah, I’m not down with that.

Give me good dances early and I’ll be happy to go home early.

I'm with you 100%. I'm always a "get there early(ish)" kind of guy. There have always been plenty of good dancers at that time. The "hardcore" dancers get there later but to me, I rarely danced with the hardcore ones in this group because 1) I found that they were generally not terribly engaging, and 2) were very cliquish.

I get my 2-3 hours of dancing in on a regular social night and I'm good. For me, it's always been law of diminishing returns if I stay late - I get tired (I always dance every song) and frankly, I've had my fill and so I'm good.

 

[SalsaNerd]

Having said that, most people's issues come from thinking too much. For those people, the anxiety and stress is what is hindering their performance. This goes away but it's not always correlated with ability. I will always advocate gaining more self-confidence in your dancing rather than taking some magic pills, alcohol or forcing yourself to stay later and willing yourself through.

(Just reading this now after using the search function instead of starting a new thread.)

This is a HUGE issue for me. Do have any suggestions as to the best way to overcome this as it specifically relates to dancing? In my case, it is a particular issue in group classes in which I stick out like a sore thumb because my first instinct is to slowly analyze what is going on, at which point I fall behind.

 

[TikiTaka]

(Just reading this now after using the search function instead of starting a new thread.)

This is a HUGE issue for me. Do have any suggestions as to the best way to overcome this as it specifically relates to dancing? In my case, it is a particular issue in group classes in which I stick out like a sore thumb because my first instinct is to slowly analyze what is going on, at which point I fall behind.

First change your username to something other than SalsaNERD

 

[SalsaNerd]

First change your username to something other than SalsaNERD

Haha good one you might have a point.

 

[Al Israel]

From a congress workshop I usually only get like 1 move.
Higher complexity patterns to me means doing different and more innovative variations of the existing moves, blocking and a hand toss, behind the back variations, staring one move, changing it's configuration to another.
All simple moves, but different variations in a string of 5 or so moves. But the kicker for me, and what is more advanced and creative is doing LESS during all of that. I was watching a video of talal (?) And he was just pausing the action (not hard breaks. Smmmoooot deceleration) and just idling on the spot. Often. Then would do flurries.
For me that only happens early in night, and or on first night of congress, when I m excites, relaxed and confident.
After the mid social lull of having more than a few beginner dancers, or just no connection with advanced dancers, I get lazy, uninspired and my creativity nose dives hard. Also the hardest, fastest stuff comes on at end, so I'm like "efff this".

can you post a link?

 

[Chris_Yannick]

This is a HUGE issue for me. Do have any suggestions as to the best way to overcome this as it specifically relates to dancing? In my case, it is a particular issue in group classes in which I stick out like a sore thumb because my first instinct is to slowly analyze what is going on, at which point I fall behind.

Not easy to suggest something since when you’re learning in class, if you don’t follow along, it could lead to incorrect technique or worst case injuring your partner.

It’s okay to think about what you’re doing especially when you are learning with a partner. The way my brain works is that if I don’t understand something in the moment, I continue doing what I know and then find out what I was missing after class.

Falling behind in class is normal for most people. Getting absolutely everything right on first try is not.

When I was recently helping out in a class, I saw that a lot of people were backleading. I forgot just how widespread this is. So if you can’t execute everything perfectly, there is a good chance your partner will do it for you lol.

IMO, teachers shouldn’t be teaching long figures in group classes, but 100% of teachers do it anyway.

When given free time to practice what was learned during a class, I found most students in class were able to follow my improvisational moves almost perfectly. Doing strictly the choreo usually led to a worse experience.

 

[MamboJazz]

When given free time to practice what was learned during a class, I found most students in class were able to follow my improvisational moves almost perfectly. Doing strictly the choreo usually led to a worse experience.

My memories to classes are unfortunately different: many followers looking not amused or even horrified when I started leading something different from the choreo of the day. For them it was not "correct" what I was doing - dancing salsa meant to them re-doing what the instructor had taught them.

 

[Offbeat]

My memories to classes are unfortunately different: many followers looking not amused or even horrified when I started leading something different from the choreo of the day. For them it was not "correct" what I was doing - dancing salsa meant to them re-doing what the instructor had taught them.

Depends on how long the follower has been dancing. One month or few months or a year plus.

Within the class slight improvisation that doesn’t deviate from the pattern works fine with most followers. Best place to improvise is entry into the pattern or exist from the pattern. No need to change the pattern. Rather than entering it as being taught, start with may be CBL, inside turn, then enter the same way as taught in the class. At the exit do something different or add on. Generally changing the core of the pattern will confuse follower since they are in “class mode” and not “dance mode”. The beginner followers will always be in the “class mode” trying to follow what the instructor is telling rather than what the leader is leading.

After the class most leaders are trying to practice what was taught in the class. The followers are also expecting to be lead what was taught. It might be better to let follower know you are trying to improvise and not only do what was in the class. If followers have got used to social dancing, they can adjust to improvisation. Those that are beginners and still learning may not.

To many dancers both leaders and followers, “correct” is what the instructor has taught. It takes time for them to have confidence and awareness that pattern taught in class is one of many possibilities.

May be pattern type class is not right for you and you can avoid those. We repeatedly say that different people learn in different ways. “Standard” approach doesn’t work for everyone.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

My memories to classes are unfortunately different: many followers looking not amused or even horrified when I started leading something different from the choreo of the day. For them it was not "correct" what I was doing - dancing salsa meant to them re-doing what the instructor had taught them.

I guess since I was only helping out and hadn't taken a class in years, that my instincts for improvisation took over. I led the choreo as taught by the teacher, but as soon as I saw the follower could do it, I started to deviate more and more. So there was a logic to it.

 

[Amun]

My memories to classes are unfortunately different: many followers looking not amused or even horrified when I started leading something different from the choreo of the day. For them it was not "correct" what I was doing - dancing salsa meant to them re-doing what the instructor had taught them.

When I was struggling, I dreaded improvisation as I could barely do what was shown like 10x times. Now that I'm doing better and grew more confident I totally love it and it makes the class much more interesting for me. I think it depends on who you meet and at what stage of learning the person is.