Is confidence an excuse?

Promoman

Promoman

Changui
Awhile back, I asked about how to go about continuing to learn salsa & bachata since I was getting virtually nothing from the dance club @ school. I met Big 10 @ Latin Beats and got some insight. Hopefully, I'll be able to start taking formal classes pretty soon if finances & school allow. I went out to try and get some dancing in recently and got more of the same from flakes. I also ran into people I know and a consensus I heard was that not being confident enough is why I don't have much fun dancing most of the time. I'm aware that confidence is important in & outside of dancing but I think it's not an excuse to not dance with someone. If you don't want to, then cool. I find it weak to use that as a reason. That's just one of those times where you're best served by the wisdom of the saying; "Silence is golden". Any thoughts?
 
Promoman said:
I went out to try and get some dancing in recently and got more of the same from flakes. I also ran into people I know and a consensus I heard was that not being confident enough is why I don't have much fun dancing most of the time. I'm aware that confidence is important in & outside of dancing but I think it's not an excuse to not dance with someone. If you don't want to, then cool. I find it weak to use that as a reason.
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I'm a little confused, because you seem to be talking about two different things. First, you say you aren't having much fun because you lack confidence. Then you ask if confidence is an excuse to not dance with someone.

So are you saying people are dancing with you, but you don't enjoy it (because you lack confidence), or no one will dance with you to begin with?

In the second case, I'd say it's up to the lady. I wouldn't mind dancing with a woman who lacks confidence, but leads are supposed to lead, so I can understand why many women would gravitate towards more confident guys.

When I took classes I figured confidence would come with experience, but I didn't learn much in classes, and my local scene isn't exactly beginner friendly. So gaining confidence can be a major hurdle.

On a side note, you need to change your avatar! I'm sure it doesn't project the real you, but OUCH! There was a lady who had an expression like that in my very first salsa class. I wasn't the only guy who made a big detour around her every time we rotated.

Seriously, a new avatar might not do much to boost your confidence, but it can't hurt. And if members of your local scene somehow learned your identity and connected you with your avatar, you'd be in deep you-know-what.

Yes, I know, I have no avatar at all. It got lost in the software upgrade. Actually, it never featured my face to begin with. But no avatar at all is better than one that screams sourpuss. Just my opinion. ;)
 
Dancing is like a conversation. Think about when you walk into a room full of people you don't know, who do you want to go talk to? Maybe someone that looks friendly? Or someone who is talking to lots of people? Maybe someone you find hot? Maybe you're shy, so rather than find someone new to talk to you find someone who talked to you last time and go say hi to them? Dancing somewhere for the first time is really not so very different to any other social situation where you don't know people, but other people might know people. So yes, confidence helps, so does looking open and friendly and approachable etc.
And some people find new social situations and meeting people easy, some have to work harder at it and maybe don't find it so much fun.
But yes, sadly, you may find people reluctant to talk to you at first, or who leave the conversation early, or who only talk to their friends. And sometimes, yeah, you are the one that has to work on your conversation skills, or confidence or whatever to fit in; personally I think it's worth the effort :)
 
Salsa Bear said:
I'm a little confused, because you seem to be talking about two different things. First, you say you aren't having much fun because you lack confidence. Then you ask if confidence is an excuse to not dance with someone.

So are you saying people are dancing with you, but you don't enjoy it (because you lack confidence), or no one will dance with you to begin with?

In the second case, I'd say it's up to the lady. I wouldn't mind dancing with a woman who lacks confidence, but leads are supposed to lead, so I can understand why many women would gravitate towards more confident guys.

When I took classes I figured confidence would come with experience, but I didn't learn much in classes, and my local scene isn't exactly beginner friendly. So gaining confidence can be a major hurdle.

On a side note, you need to change your avatar! I'm sure it doesn't project the real you, but OUCH! There was a lady who had an expression like that in my very first salsa class. I wasn't the only guy who made a big detour around her every time we rotated.

Seriously, a new avatar might not do much to boost your confidence, but it can't hurt. And if members of your local scene somehow learned your identity and connected you with your avatar, you'd be in deep you-know-what.

Yes, I know, I have no avatar at all. It got lost in the software upgrade. Actually, it never featured my face to begin with. But no avatar at all is better than one that screams sourpuss. Just my opinion. ;)
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No. What I meant to say was that I generally don't have a good time dancing because it usually seems to be too much drama getting a dance with someone. I appreciate the concern about my identity getting Valerie Plame'd but I don't see it being a problem if it did get out. There's no sense in looking for approval from somebody, or people, who aren't in to you anyway. I agree with you, it's up to the lady. As far as confidence goes, would you say that if you didn't have access to a beginner friendly scene or good teaching, what'd be a viable alternative? I was trying to say that the advice I got at the social as I was leaving was weak. My avatar is the Punisher. I'm a comic collector and that's the only one from all the pics I got that would display properly for now. That's not my favorite but maybe a Batman or something......
 
Maybe you should look up the non DancingGuy mega thread. :cool: Confidence will get you dances, will help you to move on after fails, will make you more relaxed, and better lead/follow. It will improve your smile and your scent.

This does not mean you have to pretend to be someone else all the time, though taking a role might help. That and sunglasses.

In all this you need to approve yourself. Others will feel it.

P.S. With regard to why others don't want to dance with you, I don't think web doctors can help this easily. But if you publish a video of yourself dancing, we'll gladly rip that apart.
 
Promoman said:
a consensus I heard was that not being confident enough is why I don't have much fun dancing most of the time. I'm aware that confidence is important in & outside of dancing but I think it's not an excuse to not dance with someone.
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Of course it´s not, but...
I have a friend who is actually a good lead. Sometimes we go to a little salsa-bar together, where a few dancers meet that all know each other (usually only 10 to 20 people). There, he feels comfortable and he´s a lot of fun to dance with!
But often, if we go to a bigger social/club he starts to get insecure and self-conscious. And this results in him getting very tense and leading very rough. Even knowing the reason, I can´t help it but I start to get irritated by that after a while, because I just feel like I´m beeing "pushed around" on the dance floor. I also realised that I start to get tense too, if we dance for too long then and it really compromises my ability to follow other leads for quite a while after we danced.
Fortunately we´re not only "dance-friends" but friends, so we could talk about it and I think that might be the first step to improve things. (At the moment he doesn´t go out much, so we haven´t danced at a social since then).
I once danced with another guy, who -I think also due to a lack of confidence- was basically not leading at all. I didn´t mind dancing with him, but it was just not working... (Still danced again with him another time and he had improved).

So maybe you should try to find out, if not being confident influences your dancing/leading in a way that makes it uncomfortable for follows to dance with you. Or maybe you come across as unfriendly without even knowing it (I think this was the case with me when I started going out and was still very shy)

I think, it´s a good idea to start formal lessons to gain confidence in your dancing. It could also help to find a regular dance partner you could practice with outside the "social context". If you know any friendly followers you think you could talk to openly, ask them to specify, where exactly they see the problem (not being confident enough is very vage..). Of course, if you ask, you should be prepared to handle some constructive critique.
And most of all: Don´t give up!! I think a lot of dancers go through phases, where they don´t feel comfortable with themselves and their dancing skills, feel rejected from others (which is sometimes true but sometimes being over-sensitive) and frustrated.
But if you just keep going you might find out that "the problem" is much easier solved than you think at the moment.
 
Promoman said:
Awhile back, I asked about how to go about continuing to learn salsa & bachata since I was getting virtually nothing from the dance club @ school. I met Big 10 @ Latin Beats and got some insight. Hopefully, I'll be able to start taking formal classes pretty soon if finances & school allow. I went out to try and get some dancing in recently and got more of the same from flakes. I also ran into people I know and a consensus I heard was that not being confident enough is why I don't have much fun dancing most of the time. I'm aware that confidence is important in & outside of dancing but I think it's not an excuse to not dance with someone. If you don't want to, then cool. I find it weak to use that as a reason. That's just one of those times where you're best served by the wisdom of the saying; "Silence is golden". Any thoughts?
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I think confidence plays a big role in whether you enjoy something or not. If you are good at something and you know it, you will undoubtedly have more fun than if you don't know something well and you feel down about it.

As salsa dancers, we have to pull double duty of a) learning how to dance and b) coping with others in social situations. So if you are not confident in either of these areas, I would think it would have a negative influence on your mood. If that's an excuse, then it's a rather good one IMO.

I would say, learn the dance, see your confidence grow, have more fun. Although there are some out there who never learn the dance, but have fun anyway. If you are one of those, then more power to you!

Chris
 
Promoman said:
No. What I meant to say was that I generally don't have a good time dancing because it usually seems to be too much drama getting a dance with someone.
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That's just the tip of the iceberg. ;) I still haven't figured out if the people who succeed are masochists who don't mind wading through endless rivers of BS or if they just have access to better social scenes.

Promoman said:
There's no sense in looking for approval from somebody, or people, who aren't in to you anyway.
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;)

Promoman said:
As far as confidence goes, would you say that if you didn't have access to a beginner friendly scene or good teaching, what'd be a viable alternative?
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1. Be content to enjoy la musica.

2. Dream about moving to Cali.

3. Look for a niche in your local scene you haven't discovered yet - maybe a certain club, ballroom classes, etc.

4. Keep looking for a partner or your own clique, keeping in mind that salsa scenes change pretty rapidly. One of the most obnoxious members of my scene moved away recently, and I expect her partner in crime to retire in a couple years.

You might get lucky and find a good instructor some day or meet some cool people. And if you don't, at least you tried. I think the salsa scene - in the U.S., at least - is very competitive and elitist. For one reason or another, the overwhelming majority of people who try salsa drop out, so don't feel bad if you're among them. ;)

I actually met some nice people and had two or three dances that were absolutely wonderful. The problem is connecting with those special people so you can dance with them again - very hard when you never even see them again...
 
Some people are naturally confident, even when they don't know what they're doing. But they don't know what they don't know, and this can be a blessing!
For others, it only comes over time as competence develops. If you're one of those (as I am), telling you to 'be confident' is as useful as telling a nervous person to 'relax'.
My advice, then, is to forget about it, dance as much as possible, and look for the positive. If you can afford it, take a private or two with a female instructor, and ask her to correct you on the basics like posture and hand-placement. Attend the classes they give at clubs and socials so you can meet other beginners. Then dance with them and try to get them to smile.
 
Promoman said:
No. What I meant to say was that I generally don't have a good time dancing because it usually seems to be too much drama getting a dance with someone.
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There are good and bad ways to get a dance with someone. Just hold out your hand, smile and act confident is the most effective technique - don't say a word. If you talk you're more likely to be rejected verbally even, or especially, if they've never seen you dance before.

Promoman said:
As far as confidence goes, would you say that if you didn't have access to a beginner friendly scene or good teaching, what'd be a viable alternative?
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Determination. If you have determination to improve you can make your own opportunities. Becoming a member of SalsaForums is one of those opportunities. There are many ways to learn, if you spend time here you will learn what those are.

Promoman said:
I was trying to say that the advice I got at the social as I was leaving was weak.
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Yeah, you'll get lots of weak excuses, whether you're a beginner or not. You just have to learn to shrug that off and find the people who want to dance with you.

Promoman said:
My avatar is the Punisher. I'm a comic collector and that's the only one from all the pics I got that would display properly for now. That's not my favorite but maybe a Batman or something......
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Use whatever Avatar you like. I appeciate comics too and am a big movie fan.
 
Promoman said:
Awhile back, I asked about how to go about continuing to learn salsa & bachata since I was getting virtually nothing from the dance club @ school. I met Big 10 @ Latin Beats and got some insight. Hopefully, I'll be able to start taking formal classes pretty soon if finances & school allow. I went out to try and get some dancing in recently and got more of the same from flakes. I also ran into people I know and a consensus I heard was that not being confident enough is why I don't have much fun dancing most of the time. I'm aware that confidence is important in & outside of dancing but I think it's not an excuse to not dance with someone. If you don't want to, then cool. I find it weak to use that as a reason. That's just one of those times where you're best served by the wisdom of the saying; "Silence is golden". Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

This might make you feel a little better. The fact is that most (there are notable exceptions) of the "confident" people out could not dance salsa to save their lives. That is, their 'confidence' is just an illusion (delusion) - they think they are 'good' or even 'great', but they are not. Why do they get away with thinking that way? Because, they are part of a 'salsa' subculture that has developed mostly without too many solid sources of knowledge or genuine references - isolated from the source, if you like.

I hope that my words above help you in approaching these people with more confidence, because yes, sometimes being confident when approaching a lady for dancing, or other related to 'mating' issues, can indeed increase your chances of getting a 'yes'.

Once you get more genuine salsa experience under your belt, then you will see what I am talking about. You will also attract the exceptions - the genuine salseros - to yourself. This will make your salsa experience more enjoyable and you will find some of the 'confident' dancers out there as a source of amusement and even laughter. ;)
 
Promoman,

The short answer I'd give to you is to look open, inviting, and like you are having fun. Even if you aren't yet very good, most people will want to dance if you are having fun.

The longer suggestion if you can't go to a regular paid class is to look for places that have a free lesson before the social. A lot of places do this to encourage beginners to participate so they can sell drinks and/or the instructor does it to market to new potential students. If you go long enough you'll begin to see some familiar faces, and the more experienced dancers will be able to tell you are new--and be understanding, especially if you are humble--because they see you taking the lesson. You'll be able to forge some friendships with the newbies because they are going through the same thing you are, and the experienced dancers more often than not will be understanding and may be able to share some pointers with you.

Words of wisdom: You'll almost always find some people who don't want to dance with you. It happens--no big deal, don't worry about them. But you will almost always find some people who DO want to dance with you. Build relationships with them over time. It's a journey; it won't happen overnight. And in the beginning it will be very frustrating at times. But no matter what happens, try to keep a positive attitude. Just know that each time out is another step in the right direction, and when you finally get the pay-off it will be well worth it.
 
It's a long story that will just derail the thread, but I'm going back next week. And that's why I came back to the site.... only to find out that people here are talking about me behind my back. ;)
 
Interestingly enough, this thread is about confidence and that's actually the reason why I want to dance again. I decided to go back to dancing (permanently this time, I promise) because I want to boost my confidence. I need to conquer my fears and just push myself to ask a girl to dance, lead her gracefully, and deal with those bad experiences that may come my way. If I continue not to dance, I'm running away from my fears and it will only worsen my confidence as I get older. Salsa will force me to do things I would've never done before and thus, it will change me into a better person.
 
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