Importance of drilling movements and techniques to general salsa dancing?

[Jag75]

Hi,

Just wondering, and wanting to get a feel for what people generally want to get out of their dancing. I know many say "just to have fun" - but let's be honest, many people - when they watch themselves dancing in a video, for instance, cringe and say something along the lines of "I wish I looked better when I danced". This has led me to try to get more in the mind of the average dancer, and what the average dancer wishes to get out of their dancing and going to classes.

Do you pay attention to small details when given instruction, say at a workshop? Do you go home and drill certain techniques involving stepping, dynamic balance, body movement (cbm and cuban motion, or shoulder/rib cage isolations), or practice different types of turns, spotting etc? If so how much do you dedicate to drilling such techniques? Also how much do you go out social dancing.

Another thing that has prompted me to write this post is I see many dancers who seem frustrated in class or when out social dancing, but don't go out of their way to improve, they simply seem to think dancing should be handed to them on a platter and things should magically go their way.

Personally, I train almost every day, drill stepping technique, body movement, I shadow dance as well when at home, practice spins, practice travelling turns, practice shines, practice the guaguanco (basic moves as well as some more complex ones), and train my musical ear whenever I can.

Anyway, post away your approaches to improving your dancing, as well as any other thoughts.

 

[Kading]

I think hardest way of practicing is that you don't really know if you do it correct or not.
I try to practice rumba, but I have no idea if I am doing the motion correctly. For example at this moment it doesn't look that good, is it however because I am doing the right movement but I don't have the necessary flow yet? Or do I just use the wrong movement? You need alot of experience to be able to tell this.
When I practice spinning I have the same problem. Do I have wrong technique? Or is my body just not used to spinning yet? I don't know...

I usually just practice in front of the mirror. Or videotape myself.
If I would have the right material + somehow know if I am practicing it correctly I would train 7 days a week. Now..it's only 1-2 days a week.

 

[Lawndart]

Yes... I practice everyday. If don't take some kind of class, I'll spend some time in front of the mirror. When I do take a class, as ofter as possible, I try to attend the beginner class in addition to the improver calls so that I can work on simple techniques (this probably is not as useful for followers). And I often have a specific drill or exercise recommended by my instructor to work on. It was seeing a video of myself that got me started actively practicing.

I've seen the same thing. in class. Some people never get any better.And seem baffled by the lack of progress. Many instructors are, I think, afraid to talk about drills and exercises. I also think that many people don't realize that even just a bit of practice every day can, over time, make a big difference. Maybe some people think that becoming a competent dance is not attainable.

I know where kading is coming from. In order to practice something you need to be able to do it! That's where some classes fall short I think. For example, I can't move my rib cage over my foot if I'm stiff as a board in the rib cage area. So just telling me to move my rib cage is not going to help.

 

[azzey]

When I practice spinning I have the same problem. Do I have wrong technique? Or is my body just not used to spinning yet? I don't know...

Lift your non-spinning foot off the ground and try making a 1/4, 1/2 or single spin. If you don't turn at all, you're definitely using the wrong technique.

 

[azzey]

I think hardest way of practicing is that you don't really know if you do it correct or not.
I try to practice rumba, but I have no idea if I am doing the motion correctly.

Practice the motions separately and simplify.

 

[timberamayor]

I've never videoed myself but I DID loan my camera to someone once and ended up in the video. It was funny because it was at a peña and we were all just following the lead of some Cubans doing various afro-cuban dances. I only saw myself from the back and I remember thinking "Who is that girl? I've never seen her out dancing before." hahaha... since it was afro-cuban stuff that I don't even know what the name of it was, I had no option of whether I was dancing well or poorly.

On my next Cuba trip I will FINALLY take classes in Cuba and from what my friends tell me they spend hours drilling people on proper basic movement. Looking forward to that because I am also afraid of trying to train myself and developing bad habits rather than good ones without proper guidance.

 

[UnlikelySalsero]

Repetition is the mother of all learning.

The issue is if we repeat the wrong stuff, we will learn something that either has to be "unlearned" or will just be a part of our dancing for a long time. (It's much more effort relearning, but most of us do it anyway...)

That means before drilling, we need to have an idea where we want to go, what we are improving. As a rule that is either an example dancer from your scene, an instructor who can model the movement, or a video/DVD, etc. (The sources for improvement are widely available now, along with lots of "just OK" sources too.)

As a generalization, the people who practice more improve more. Combined with finding quality instruction anybody can improve. Some people are more observant than others. Without mirrors, video or an instructor to provide feedback, most dancers simply don't know what they don't know.

Most club dancers assume if they just do it enough they will be fine. In a few cases, that works, but not for most.

Drills/repetition/practice is a huge part of making progress, just be sure what you are practicing is actually something that improves your dancing, not just grooving a movement you'll undo later.

In most cases, this means classes, instructors, and/or lots of social dancing with very experienced dancers.

Some paths are much shorter than others.

 

[azzey]

Social dancing MAY introduce lots of bad habits. It depends how much you adapt or are strict with yourself. If you are strict you may not be easy to dance with, as every follower is different.

Mirror practice/video/drills can help you to fix a habit you learned while social dancing. Then you can pay a bit more attention next time you social dance to repeat the correct movement IF you know what it should feel like.

 

[vit]

There are some useful info on this site

http://practice-wcs.com/wp/series-list/

It's about WCS, so of course, skip things that are specific to WCS. But articles about practicing, drilling etc are dealing with pretty much the same stuff, and even those about spinning, musicality etc can be applicable to salsa or other dances, at least partially

There is an interesting statement in one of the articles - according to some research, you need about 10x as much time to unlearn the stuff than to learn it correctly (measured by number of repeats)

 

[Smejmoon]

There is an interesting statement in one of the articles - according to some research, you need about 10x as much time to unlearn the stuff than to learn it correctly (measured by number of repeats)

Don't know if this works for everyone, but my approach avoids unlearning. I just learn a new variation and leave "the wrong" one without practice. If it's worse I won't use it and it will be forgotten. But sometimes it's just another tool in the kit.

Theoretically the problem of unlearning is that you reinforce "the wrong" approach by "unlearning". Don't do it. Do something else instead. And I would not worry about "wrong" approaches too much, since you gain many skills at once you can reuse some of them. At least physical fitness and knowledge of music is useful.

 

[vit]

Yes, I agree with that. However, it's not always so easy. For instance, if someone gets cuban motion or some other basic thing wrong, learning it the right way isn't just "new variation" of it, because it is the same thing, just done properly. Your muscles are used to do the action certain way and you have to "reprogram" them

Anyway, I try to use that approach. For instance, I ask a new girl for a bachata, realize her body movement is completely wrong, so I usually say ... look, forget everything you did in the classes ... so we start from the scratch, first slow and without any steps, just weight transfer etc (not talking about teaching her on the floor, but just trying to help her to copy my body movement). This usually works, because they were not doing it on rhythm 1 5 and 1 3 5 7 in the class, so it is new for her. Later, I try switching to 123 567 rhythm, but without hip triplets. This moment is usually tricky - it is faster, and her muscle memory starts kicing in - so she needs to unlearn wrong motion before we can proceed to usual rhythm with hip triplets ... if she was only on several classes, usually not that hard. I she was dancing that way 2 years - much harder

 

[Smejmoon]

Maybe you need to change music, the clothing, put new curtains, color the hair.. So there are less associations of previous habits.

 

[snowflake]

Do you pay attention to small details when given instruction, say at a workshop? Do you go home and drill certain techniques involving stepping, dynamic balance, body movement (cbm and cuban motion, or shoulder/rib cage isolations), or practice different types of turns, spotting etc? If so how much do you dedicate to drilling such techniques?

Yep, I do this. When I come across something that I can't pick up and copy straight off, whether it be footwork, body movement, co-ordination or anything else; I go home, break it down slowly - get more information on the technique (from a tutor or youtube or DVD) if I have to, then drill it until it works. Some things take longer than others. I believe anyone can learn anything they want and set their mind to following this process.

Two specific salsa moves come to mind that I couldn't do at all at first attempt (or second or 200th), but I have learnt by drilling as above are the shoulder shimmy and the body roll (up and down)

 

[toan-hoang]

Anyway, post away your approaches to improving your dancing, as well as any other thoughts.

For me there are many things:
1) To be able to look at yourself and identify your personal weaknesses and focus on that, a lot of people get stuck doing the same exercises and staying in there comfort zone.
2) Take classes with different instructors, this will open your mind. Most people stick to the same clubs and teachers and after a long enough time, you start to regress. Diversity and continuous challenge will help.
3) Don't watch videos but focus on your local scene and local dancers. A lot of people actually become (and are unaware of this) demotivated when they watch videos. But when you compare yourself to the local dancers, it becomes more real and generally easier to find the motivation to push, compete and drive. To push to be the best dancer in your club is an achieveable goal and something you can strive towards.
4) The devil is in the details, I would rate someone higher if they could do a good basic step over someone who does crazy flashy stuff (personal opinion).

Then there is the social side (different from training):
1) Dance with different people and improve your agility as a dancer, reflexes and awareness
2) Learn to dance in none ideal conditions i.e. crowded spaces.

I recently posted this article on Facebook, and removed it, but I used it effectively to identify potential growth areas for my teachers:
http://toanhoang.com/major-interest/salsa/64-ss

Hope this helps,
T

 

[wonderwoman]

I don't necessarily practice on my own but I do critique myself a lot while social dancing. I started in 2009 and I never liked the way I looked while doing my basic step. I've taken lessons with 6 salsa instructors and danced with a couple more, and I have always asked them to dance with me and observe my dancing and then correct anything they see. Not one corrected what I was doing wrong in my basic step. Last year a friend told me how I was doing my cbl wrong and one instructor did find partial fault in my basic but didn't find THE problem. I figured it out from watching myself in a mirror while social dancing and by watching others and the way they did their basic.