Huge steps = better looking movement?

TikiTaka said:
The discussion was if training should be fun or not....
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Obviously one has to like something he is doing and get some kind of satisfaction from that. However, in various kinds of sports (including dancesport), big motive is surely competitivity and wish to be better than others. To an extent, it can be drive even in (higher level?) social dancing (as discussed in another thread). And, this includes some serious / long lasting efforts that are unfortunately not always fun.

In any case, one has to be aware not to go too far to start making damage to own body, but this isn't always the case either. Sometimes wish to win /expectations from other people etc ... is just to big ...
 
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Smejmoon said:
I have not figured this out clearly, but will write down lest I forget. To me it seems that step size choice is also dependent on quality of upper body movement. This is just the feeling after 10 days of experimentation.

What is looking good to me? Staying in balance, staying in control, if losing control, recovering gracefully or in a fun way. If you fail, you accept it and then there is no fail. Then there are interpretations on what you do with control, what do you express, how it works with partner and music, what it evokes in me. Objective part is about balance.

Every body type (height, weight, length of legs) will have different range of steps where they can keep balance and change direction in a controlled manner. Without jerking, falling, slipping, tumbling, pulling or pushing the partner. (I'm not saying these things are wrong, but they're not exactly a signs of great skill.)

In the middle of that range is the comfort zone, and it's not that interesting to look at. At the ends there are very different dynamics. With the small steps you have to direct energy up and down, because there is not much horizontal momentum. So you rise your feet and transfer this movement through all the body; let it reach head and fingertips.
With large steps you will start skidding (depends on floor and footwear), but you can do more, if you use upper body to shift balance in the direction of the step. You're asking, what if one doesn't engage upper body? Then you fall down. Now, this is again dependent on your body type. Heavier person will find it harder to shift and bend quickly. If people lack flexibility, they won't be able to bend joints quickly and in controlled way either. Big steps won't work.

I can't prove this, it's just hypothesis, would be great if we had some qualified person here to set me straight.
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What's weird to me is the energy output that is being transmitted visually into my limbs. On pretty much every video I've seen of myself, there is a lack of energy output, especially in the area I want to see the most movement, which is in my legs/feet.

On video, it appears that I am walking around followers. There is very little lift in my legs. If I try to artificially create lift in my legs, it will look very disconnected to the rest of my body.

So then the challenge becomes how to create that natural 'bounce' when dancing the basic. If I can figure this out, the rest should follow.

The video below illustrates the energy output I am referring to. Ernesto's stepping is creating a very pronounced visual bounce - it's a bit exaggerated here but you can see the energy that is being transmitted into his stepping via cuban motion. It looks like he is almost running at times. The effect is so obvious and I absolutely love the energy driving his motion. Even though it's not the perfect look, it changed the way I looked at dancing forever.

 
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Chris_Yannick said:
What's weird to me is the energy output that is being transmitted visually into my limbs. On pretty much every video I've seen of myself, there is a lack of energy output, especially in the area I want to see the most movement, which is in my legs/feet.

On video, it appears that I am walking around followers. There is very little lift in my legs. If I try to artificially create lift in my legs, it will look very disconnected to the rest of my body.

So then the challenge becomes how to create that natural 'bounce' when dancing the basic. If I can figure this out, the rest should follow.

The video below illustrates the energy output I am referring to. Ernesto's stepping is creating a very pronounced visual bounce - it's a bit exaggerated here but you can see the energy that is being transmitted into his stepping via cuban motion. It looks like he is almost running at times. The effect is so obvious and I absolutely love the energy driving his motion. Even though it's not the perfect look, it changed the way I looked at dancing forever.

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Looks like he has a lot of swagger, i like it. Can't see that the steps are any big though.
 
TikiTaka said:
Looks like he has a lot of swagger, i like it. Can't see that the steps are any big though.
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Well he's a beast for sure. He definitely has that Cuban swag. It's the energy that interests me the most, though. His steps are also way bigger than mine.
 
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A friend of mine once compared me to Inaki Fernandez. When looking at him, I definitely see the similarity. He looks chill in his dancing. He's also closer to my build than say, Ernesto. I also step with similar stepping distance as he does. Anyway, just to compare, here he is dancing with Magna.

I like Inaki, but he's walking and that's something I am trying to avoid as I evolve.

 
Chris_Yannick said:
What's weird to me is the energy output that is being transmitted visually into my limbs. On pretty much every video I've seen of myself, there is a lack of energy output, especially in the area I want to see the most movement, which is in my legs/feet.

On video, it appears that I am walking around followers. There is very little lift in my legs. If I try to artificially create lift in my legs, it will look very disconnected to the rest of my body.

So then the challenge becomes how to create that natural 'bounce' when dancing the basic. If I can figure this out, the rest should follow.

The video below illustrates the energy output I am referring to. Ernesto's stepping is creating a very pronounced visual bounce - it's a bit exaggerated here but you can see the energy that is being transmitted into his stepping via cuban motion. It looks like he is almost running at times. The effect is so obvious and I absolutely love the energy driving his motion. Even though it's not the perfect look, it changed the way I looked at dancing forever.

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Don't worry, the way I looked at dancing changed for me forever many times ... until next change :)

Yeah, I remember Intaki, he was here 2 or 3 times when danced with Beige. It was about time I started dancing salsa on2. I actually liked his "smooth look" back then, as all of us looked quite rough in comparison

Most salsa dancers look like walking anyway, even if they have a lot of upper body movement

There is nothing very complex in how to achieve more dynamic look similar to Ernesto (not saying looking as good as him, but similar in a way). Just prepare to spend 5x as much energy in legs ... unfortunately it's hard to dance 10 or 20 dances in a row that way ... it's not about creating lifts in legs or any other kind of styling, you just have to move yourself

Most leaders dedicate most energy to leading the girl, hence the resulting look ... not much different with terry for instance, just that he is using 3-4x more energy than Intaki overall, but distributed similar way among legs and arms ...
 
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vit said:
Most salsa dancers look like walking anyway, even if they have a lot of upper body movement
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Smejmoon said:
I think walking can also be done with grace, with energy, rushed or sloppy. Some people look better when they walk. To me it seems that they do engage more of their body when they do that.
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Yeah true, but I'm also trying to avoid doing too much with the upper body/not doing enough with lower body, otherwise I could end up looking like this:

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It's a delicate balance you know :p
 
vit said:
There is nothing very complex in how to achieve more dynamic look similar to Ernesto (not saying looking as good as him, but similar in a way). Just prepare to spend 5x as much energy in legs ... unfortunately it's hard to dance 10 or 20 dances in a row that way ... it's not about creating lifts in legs or any other kind of styling, you just have to move yourself
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Ernesto is pretty much out of my league. I don't want to end up looking like him. I just like how the energy is distributed when he dances. Though I agree it must be tough dancing like that all night.

Based on my current level, a better aim would be to walk/dance similar to David Stein. Good, clean stepping. Still walking around follow but doing it with more energy than Inaki. Inserting a lot of taps along the way.

 
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Chris_Yannick said:
Yeah true, but I'm also trying to avoid doing too much with the upper body/not doing enough with lower body, otherwise I could end up looking like this:

View attachment 3242

It's a delicate balance you know :p
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I believe that not the amount, but connection between upper and lower body is what creates elegance and drive. That when steps are not isolated it looks much better.
 
In other news, after watching a video of a local festival that was filmed using a cell phone, it does seem like everyone is walking rather than dancing. I don't feel so bad now.
 
TikiTaka said:
I think the guy with the blue jeans looks much better :D
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Guy in black is using big movements but it looks good. Eric looks like a social dancer with good body movement. The other guy looks like a performer but moves a lot more organically than I've seen most performers.

Would have loved to see their interpretation of the next song that came on.
 
vit said:
Some long steps here (guy in black). I'm not sure there was actually a clip with relatively long steps in the thread so far ...

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What I see is use of the space available. Not long steps. If it was crowded I am sure he could have been able to dance just as well using shorter steps. Why? You can look at his body movements when dancing in place.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
Guy in black is using big movements but it looks good. Eric looks like a social dancer with good body movement. The other guy looks like a performer but moves a lot more organically than I've seen most performers.

Would have loved to see their interpretation of the next song that came on.
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I gave my opinion in the social dance thread before reading this :).

I don’t know either. I think second guy appeals to me more through his interpretation and social dancing. The first guy is all about spins and busy dancing.
 
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