1derpalm
Son Montuno
I think I know of the blogs.
How to reject a dance?
- Thread starter Leah3018
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And she's a Zouk dancer now.. Guess Salsa dancers don't give good enough hugs.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
If she wanted the best hugs she'd get into kizomba
There is just something incredibly comforting about dancing in a close embrace for a long time. And dancing in a close hug position with some kizomba leads that are just the right body shape (a muscular, wide frame, and just a bit taller) feels like heaven on earth
1derpalm
Son Montuno
1st you're an against and now you're a size-ist. Wait.. phrasing. Now you're a height-ist.If she wanted the best hugs she'd get into kizomba
There is just something incredibly comforting about dancing in a close embrace for a long time. And dancing in a close hug position with some kizomba leads that are just the right body shape (a muscular, wide frame, and just a bit taller) feels like heaven on earth
No or no thanks is a very clear never ask me again.
I wonder what the followers here have to say about that. I don’t know if most followers will agree.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
True for me usually.
If I enjoy dancing with him in general (or don't know him and have no reason to reject him) but I have a specific reason why I cannot accept the invitation at that moment (eg I need to run to the bathroom), then I will tell him I will try to find him later (and then go ahead and do that, of course -- I don't make empty promises). Of course, sometimes that does not work out, especially in kizomba with the long sessions people do, but at least I try, and he will usually understand that my rejection was just in that moment and not a general rejection.
If I say no thanks, it's usually a general rejection, it usually means that I don't want to dance with him at all. But there are always exceptions of course. For example, maybe I am waiting for/planning to ask several people that I really want to dance with, and it's a large event, so I don't want to miss the other leads and can't promise that I will find the first lead later.
Also, if someone I rejected asks me again (same night or a different night) and I say no again, then that means a very clear "I don't want to dance with you at all".
Just to put this in perspective, I very rarely reject invitations, so when I do, it's for a very good reason -- so the few times I say no thanks will usually be a very clear sign it's a pretty permanent rejection.
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Bostontraitor
Son
1. always keep your promise. If you can't do it this time, then run to him for a dance the next time. All leads will respect you.
2. What's up with kizomba long dance sessions? I got smacked in the back of my head by a friend. She's like: dude, this is not salsa or bachata, you dance with a girl for 3 songs minimum. Unless she smells bad, you don't walk away after 1 song.
Well, not the first time that girls tell me 3 mins is not enough.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
I already said that that's exactly what I do, so why are you telling me this? This comes across a bit like mansplaining
unless you intended it as advice for other people reading this.(and I'm very well liked by the leads in my home scene btw
)
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
2. What's up with kizomba long dance sessions? I got smacked in the back of my head by a friend. She's like: dude, this is not salsa or bachata, you dance with a girl for 3 songs minimum. Unless she smells bad, you don't walk away after 1 song.
Well, not the first time that girls tell me 3 mins is not enough.
1. Three songs in Kizomba is the bare minimum, long sessions are half an hour or more. But keep in mind kizomba songs are shorter than salsa songs, usually around 2 minutes per song before the DJ mixes in the next song.
2. The reason we don't just do one song in kizomba is because you want to give the dance some time to build the lead-follow connection, especially if you're dancing with a new partner. Stopping after one song means you thought the connection/dance was so bad that it's best to abandon. So it is going to be a bit offensive to the partner and something to be done only when you really find yourself unable to continue beyond one song because the dance is really bad.
For me it is also true. No or no thanks is really a message "don't ask again" and I think this goes for many of my friends. If I want the lead to come again and have a valid reason, I quickly say it, like I'm really tired or agreed to dance with someone else before.
have you been asked again by the same person the same night after giving a no or no thank you?
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
Yep, it happens every now and then. I guess I look too friendly when saying no thanks
And some people are not very good at reading the signals, or maybe they think the initial no had nothing to do with them (which can be true of course, depending on the follow's reasons -- as I said above, there are exceptions for me as well -- and especially if the lead comes from a high rejection scene where rejections are more random); or maybe they think it will be flattering if they ask a second time (because their persistence will show the follow they really really want to dance with her) and so maybe they think they have a better chance.
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Bostontraitor
Son
Thanks a lot Sabrosura, for telling me this now, after I already pissed off 90% of the local followers. I could have used some ladysplaining before that.
Your story is all too common. Some men keep asking the girls over and over and then spin them around and girls seem to enjoy it until they realize that's not dancing (mainly a show off without much regards to the music).You will find many people in dancing - as in most parts of life - who get by with their misbehavior because nobody acts up against them.
The forceful guys sadly are a product of bad teaching (by teachers, by society and by women keeping to smile at them). Best would be to tell him directly why you don't want to dance with him and then actually proceed to not dance with him.
Sadly many women opt for trying to not make a scene and evade them or even hope he stops hurting her if she just smiles - which tells him that she likes it. I will add a story about a special encounter I had years ago at the end.
You will find many guys which are a little rough out of inexperience. It's a long and hard process to be a gentle and precise lead and you get little help on that journey. It often works great if you tell them also what makes it rough. Even telling them "hey, I am a beginner, let's turn less" can help. My training partner when I was a beginner trained with me for weeks and weeks to precisely aim the impulse at turns.
For the groping:
A smacking slap in the face and if he tries anything after that a walk to security/police.
At least if it is obvious.
Accidents happen (Saturday I smacked a teacher's butt by pure accident, another teacher hit me in the groin in return a while later). But I have seen enough cases where it clearly wasn't accident or grey zone / miscommunication but simple groping.
The real perverts will use mental force - i.e. telling you stuff like "don't be shy, it's danced closer" - to get you to do what they want. But even then it's the right thing to understand, that it's them, not you.
(Btw, there are quite some women doing similar to men, too. Many of those "happy dancing ladies" are real creepy.)
In all cases:
Neither hide your disappointment and look the fault at you nor make it an "all men" situation.
As a beginner you are sadly often in the meat grinder for a certain group of guys. Those, who messed it up with all others already. (You are also a point of interest for better dancers looking for a flirt - but those usually are not perceived that negatively)
The story:
Must be like 6 years ago. I was a mid level dancer, very shy but very happy when I got to dance. And I already had figured out the "sometimes less is more" approach to dancing.
There was a woman. Pretty, nice, a rather good dancer.
Sadly she did not seem to like to dance with me, so I stopped asking her. In an environment where women rarely ask guys to dance that meant not dancing with her. She never said anything bad, just her actions. She rejected me several times because she was tired, but then danced with a guy who loved to spin and lift her within the same song!
After not having danced with her for half a year we happened to sit at the same table and she mentioned, that I didn't ask her for a long time.
I told her, that she rejected me too many times.
But she said, she was tired every time.
But why did she then dance with that guy so lively?
"You know, I don't like dancing with him. But he doesn't accept when I reject him."
"So you rejected me because I respected you and you danced with him because you did not like how he handles you?"
This story is a very blatant version of ... toxic femininity meets toxic masculinity or something like that.
But I have heard from dozens of women already that they hesitate rejecting unpleasant guys who just ask forcefully (i.e. simply grab their hands) and are more prone to reject the nice (but not suuuuper good) dancers when they are starting to get tired.
You don't do yourself a favor if you accept bad dancers (not beginners, bad dancers) or over exploitation of your friendliness.
There are many girls who do not fall for these show dances. My solution is to dance with the ones who appreciate my type of dancing.
I do not know why she(the girl in this discussion) was tired when you asked her and not to those persistent guys. I think its best not to worry it. In my case if she says "I am tired", I would not ask in the same event. If a girl asks my reasons for not asking I explain that I follow ballroom dance etiquette. If she is smart enough she will look into it.
WellHelloThere
Changui
“I have a boyfriend” 