i PREFER THE 1ST VID (TRADITIONAL ) AND THE LAST IS MORE LIKE A MERENGUE
i PREFER THE 1ST VID (TRADITIONAL ) AND THE LAST IS MORE LIKE A MERENGUE
Forgot to add this song is/ was a big hit back when.. Pa chimoso tu
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
It's one of the best.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Yes it's a bit of a strange hybrid. I assume dancing merengue to it but would be a lot easier than dancing pachanga.
It seems the original point of Pachanga was exactly to give it a Merengue feel.
That‘s why they also called it Merenconga.
I‘d be curious if they did dance Merengue to it sometimes.
I was speaking in general, but yes, it‘s Salsa-related videos I had in mind.
But also about cuban music history or even dance vida.
I‘ve just seen lots of contradictions online, not just perc
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Wouldn't surprise me.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
With percussion I'm always looking for vids that give good demos and possibly explanations as well. I'll start a thread and you can post any that you think are good and/or know have been recommended by pros. Also any that are not so good (obviously you'll need to warn that they're of low quality).
You‘re really not fun. Would be a lot nicer if we don‘t tell and do a big mess with fake news!
I‘ll podt what I know, however don‘t expect too much... I‘ve forgotten quite a few of these videos. But the thread idea is great!
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
A description of pachanga from John Santos:
There are various ways to approach it with timbal and tumbadoras but in general, there is an "a caballo" feel often with an accent on the "off" beat right after the "one" on the three side of the clave which can be played on tims or tumbadora or both.
From Yahoo Latin Jazz group.
There are various ways to approach it with timbal and tumbadoras but in general, there is an "a caballo" feel often with an accent on the "off" beat right after the "one" on the three side of the clave which can be played on tims or tumbadora or both.
From Yahoo Latin Jazz group.
It's mostly a rhythmic phrase (with some variations).
Across an 8-count, the two main accents are on 1, 4&. These are both often accompanied by a second accent one beat later, i.e. 1-2, 4&-5&. Sometimes, there's a third such pair on 7-8.
Examples:
The piano in Hector Rivera's Ya se formó from 2:05 on it's own is enough
Pachanga con La Playa right from the start
Orquesta Oriental Cubana, Pachanga sensacional
René and His Orchestra, Como bailan la pachanga
(The genre took a little bit to settle on this pattern, the original La Pachanga in particular isn't yet a pachanga in this sense.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
This is what's called playing tumbadora on the "1."
I think someone light years more capable than he informed him why everything he shared was an abysmal interpretation of how the science behind the rhythm patterns worked and he willingly deleted them. Expert Village themselves don't know Jack from Jill and just allowed creators to provide content.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
That's because it's not a "Pachanga" in the early 1960s dance fad pachanga sense. This audio you posted is a remake of the Eduardo Davidson original. Which (the original) was a Merengue. Just a Merengue rhythm played by Cubans. I've read where they've it's been redefined as a Conga-Merengue or some other name to give it a homegrown authenticity. But Davidson's "La Pachanga" is a Merengue (a la Eduardo Davidson's rhythm section). The song title for Davidson's composition is an allusion to a "party," and not a dance craze (like "the Twist") or a codified music subgenre of Son.
Pachanga post-Eduardo Davidson has a rhymthical approach (like ALL 'Son' based music since day one). What John Santos refers to as "A Caballo" is a reference to a certain kind of groove rooted in the Charanga tradition that lends itself to hopping and skipping in place. Orquesta Aragon were the "faces" of this in Cuba. The dancers would whip out a handkerchief and 'snap' it or wave it towards their dance partner. That phenomena got transplanted to NY, and not necessarily or exclusively by Cubans (Puerto Ricans had been making their way to Cuba since before anyone) and was applied to the rhythmical approach that would eventually become synonymous as a NY-style pachanga.
Benny Velarde pointing to 1961 as a starting point is in reference to the "popular narrative" that Johnny Pacheco is who became the face of the Pachanga becoming a dance craze (which he was) and when it first made national news. But the dancing part, and the music style that got crystallized into becoming, goes back further, and not directly to Eduardo Davidson. But to Jose Fajardo. Who first came to the U.S. in 1957. That appearance at a hotel (he "sat in" upon visiting the Palladium ballroom after his hotel gig, but was not booked to perform) is what impacted Charlie Palmieri, Mongo Santamaria, Johnny Pacheco, Lou Perez, Belisario Lopez, Bolo Martinez, Joe Quijano, Ray Barretto, Armando Sanchez and others to pursue a an uptempo Charanga dance format "...a Caballo."
Fajardo's music, albeit not as progressive, is the link to the NY "Pachanga" emerging in the early 1960s. As well as the all-brass conjuntos and vibraphone-oriented ensembles in NYC (like Eddie Palmieri's "La Perfecta" and the Joe Cuba Sextet) emerging to go from sounding akin to a big band or full orchestra sound or approach, to a more Charangeao' (or Charanga-ish) sound.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
Of all the contemporary or post-early 1960s Pachanga dance craze exhibitions presented to the public, this video here of the then-Eddie Torres dance company is the closest to how dancers were expressing themselves to the Pachangas of Charlie Palmieri, Johnny Pacheco and Joe Quijano.
Look at the way the dancers are expressing themselves to the music. What's being expressed musically or sonically (by the orchestra) lends itself to what the dancers are engaging in physically. If the music does not lend itself to doing what those dancers are doing, then it's not a Pachanga in the U.S. dance craze/Son subgenre sense. No matter how many times the term "Pachanga" is uttered or used in the title. Because that above is the Pachanga dance that took off in NYC/East Coast, and made it's way to the West Coast and Chicago... but that's it as far as how 'National' the Pachanga dance fad went. There wasn't a similar movement in Albuquerque or Idaho.
They were doing "The Pony."
Look at the way the dancers are expressing themselves to the music. What's being expressed musically or sonically (by the orchestra) lends itself to what the dancers are engaging in physically. If the music does not lend itself to doing what those dancers are doing, then it's not a Pachanga in the U.S. dance craze/Son subgenre sense. No matter how many times the term "Pachanga" is uttered or used in the title. Because that above is the Pachanga dance that took off in NYC/East Coast, and made it's way to the West Coast and Chicago... but that's it as far as how 'National' the Pachanga dance fad went. There wasn't a similar movement in Albuquerque or Idaho.
They were doing "The Pony."
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
This is Pachanga... a caballo. Like Fajardo, Orq. Aragon, Orquesta America del '55. Only more progressive (faster). None of this has anything to do with Eduardo Davidson or his hit song, other than the title of his composition. The music never lies or misconstrues.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
For some reason the original 1958 version of "La Pachanga" is no longer available online. The one that is now floating around youtube is a late 1960s remake sung by Eduardo Davidson himself. However he employs the same exact Merengue rhythm as he did in his original. It's also a different personnel of chorus singers than the original.
The audio on this thread from 2023 is relative to this older discussion from 2020: https://www.salsaforums.com/threads/la-pachanga.42193/
The audio on this thread from 2023 is relative to this older discussion from 2020: https://www.salsaforums.com/threads/la-pachanga.42193/
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
Eduardo Davidson's La Pachanga.
Eduardo's inspiration: The Merengue, born in the Dominican Republic, and that was specifically being produced by Dominican artists in New York City [1949-1956] -
Eduardo's inspiration: The Merengue, born in the Dominican Republic, and that was specifically being produced by Dominican artists in New York City [1949-1956] -
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
And then the inspiration goes in reverse. Or, rather, in a never ending circle:
Orq. America de los '55 [1959]
Dioris Valladeres [1963]
One is a Charanga from Cuba from the '50s, playing a caballo. The other is a conjunto (saxes & trumpets) from the early '60s playing 'Pachanga'.... also a caballo a lo Nueva York. (And, ironically, via the same Dominican vocalist who was singing with Angel Viloria and his Orq. Tipica Cibaeño when they performed in Cuba in 1954. An event that Eduardo Davidson was present for and for which he expressed as being an inspiration for his composition "La Pachanga.")
Which goes to show that "Pachanga" isn't about having strings and flutes in the orchestration. It's a rhythmical phenomena.
To sum up, Cuban music from Cuba still gets (or should receive IMHO) the credit for influencing a dance craze in the U.S. and for "Pachanga" becoming a commercial subgenre of Son. It just isn't Eduardo Davidson's music that is ground zero. Only the word he used to revolve his composition around is what connects him to that story. Not the music or rhythm of his composition "La Pachanga."
Orq. America de los '55 [1959]
Dioris Valladeres [1963]
One is a Charanga from Cuba from the '50s, playing a caballo. The other is a conjunto (saxes & trumpets) from the early '60s playing 'Pachanga'.... also a caballo a lo Nueva York. (And, ironically, via the same Dominican vocalist who was singing with Angel Viloria and his Orq. Tipica Cibaeño when they performed in Cuba in 1954. An event that Eduardo Davidson was present for and for which he expressed as being an inspiration for his composition "La Pachanga.")
Which goes to show that "Pachanga" isn't about having strings and flutes in the orchestration. It's a rhythmical phenomena.
To sum up, Cuban music from Cuba still gets (or should receive IMHO) the credit for influencing a dance craze in the U.S. and for "Pachanga" becoming a commercial subgenre of Son. It just isn't Eduardo Davidson's music that is ground zero. Only the word he used to revolve his composition around is what connects him to that story. Not the music or rhythm of his composition "La Pachanga."
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