How long did it take for you to relax into salsa?

[Swannie]

Branching off the discussion from Are You In A Salsa Clique ... And Why?

This is one of my old threads, while not directly related, it probably makes interesting read for my SF family: http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=1872

Definately good reading.

I don't like asking the better follows to dance as it seems like I see the boredom on the faces, or feel the restlessness in them.

But maybe they are just reflecting back what they get from me? (I think that is probably true in dance more than just the general interactions you have in the wider world, as there is a clear lead/follow.)

Some of my follow friends have told me I should relax more when I am dancing. I wish I could! I'm not exactly up tight, i.e. my body is relaxed, but I can't "cut loose" or "let go".

I think it might be easier for followers to do that, but I am thinking about so much, my memory seems to have an endless list of stuff that it recalls...

* a rough idea of how many times I've done each sort of move in that dance
* watch out for that guy over there, he's allll over the place
* what level is my follower, have I tried a CBL inside turn? (etc.)
* is she enjoying the dance?
* (if she is off time a little) how do I ease her back on time without it being obvious/blantant
* is the lead clear enough for this follower?
* i'm just doing the basic, can I fit in some taps or some body movement
* is that a break coming up?
* am I whirling my arms around too much?
* am I smiling?
* ohh, have I practiced that move from last week yet? how did it go?
* arg, am I still doing that stupid little shrug when I failed to lead something the way I wanted? :? did she notice and think it was her fault!

Another aspect is that I hear all this stuff in the music that I want to express, it's just that I don't know how to! That's very frustrating. Or maybe I have an idea, but what with all of the other things going through my head, it doesn't make it out on top of my priorities.

It has taken me about 3 years to really relax into my tai chi form, where the sorts of things that come up for tai chi are just dismissed and I can enjoy the flow, and get lost in my body. But that is because I worked at making all of the things that did come up completely automatic/fixed them.

After reading the thread over on DF I have resolved to dance with practically everyone at the small party night I am going to tomorrow. I'll probably have danced with about 50% of the ladies there before, but not the best.

Any advice on how to "let go" on the dance floor? Any dvd's that are highly recommended for mens styling/body isolations?

Thanks guys!
Swannie

 

[lolita]

i have one thing to tell you, if u made a mistake its not the end of the world; just let go, its all about fun nothing more and nothing less
if u put too much stress on things u shouldnt be thinking about
then u might aswell wanna stop dancing.
next time ur out dancing, just TRY to let go , it needs a lil bit of time but it finally works.

p.s if u gave my pyramids back, i can give u a one good useful advice

 

[Claude]

It took me about 6 months, from October 2000 to April 2001.

It was a very nice sensation, as Robert Duvall I felt it smelt like.... VICTORY.

Advice to newcomers: BE patient, and result will come.

I refer expecially to men, since we have leading responsibilities.

 

[AndrewD]

Very interesting question and I can’t really say at what point I became comfortable with myself and my dancing, all I know is that it happened relatively recently and I’ve really started to cut loose on the dance-floor. I've been dancing for almost a year - so there's still plenty for me to learn, but I've stopped thinking about myself so much and am beginning to really focus on what my partner wants.

So, I guess you’re really talking about how long it takes to achieve the state where, all the things you’ve bullet pointed are done sub-consciously, allowing you to concentrate two things.

a) getting into your partner’s mind
b) getting into the music

The most important thing is confidence, you have to be happy with yourself and your abilities - all followers react better when they are in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, even if it's just an on-time basic step. But not weird over-confidence; when I started 'dancing up' with better followers I would respond to their 'you've got to do better than that face' by trying moves I couldn't really lead properly, inevitably these would go wrong and the bored look turned into one of horror instead. Now I try to treat each dance the same, be it with a beginner or with one of my instructors - I try and work out what they like (and it isn’t necessarily multiple spins) and do these things whilst displaying an appreciation of the music.
I then feed off their energy, taking my dancing up a level; this wins more appreciation from them and so on...a virtuous circle. With beginners you can surprise them by making them do things they thought they couldn't do, similarly if you find out what makes an advanced follower tick, I am firmly of the belief that they can elevate the leader and make him look much better than he is.

You’ll always get princesses (and princes), who think they are god’s gift and are doing you a favour by dancing with them, but most advanced ladies appreciate the opportunity to display some of the talents they’ve taken years of practice to acquire.

 

[Jambo]

Swannie, You sound like a really considerate leader and genuinely care about whether the follower is enjoying the dance, your dance card should be full

If you dance with someone and they look bored throughout, simply thank them for the dance then cross them off your dance card permanently, it's not your problem, it's theirs - they are the ones burning their bridges. Just think ahead into the not too distant future when you'll have a queue of ladies wanting to dance with you and that same 'bored' person wants to join that queue Sweet revenge!

As for totally relaxing, well I'm still working on that myself with the really good dancers but to me, the really skilled dancers make you feel relaxed straight away, no matter what level you are. A few weeks ago a salsa 'name' got me up dancing, this guy is soooooooooo out of my league and was dancing to my level without a hint of boredom, he managed to make me feel like I was the only other person in that room. I was able to forget WHO I was dancing with and remember WHY I love dancing. No matter whether you're a leader or a follower, if you make the other person FEEL special for those 4 or 5 minutes, the dance will BE special.

 

[AndrewD]

Just to add; don't worry too much about funky body isolations and fancy footwork. Super Mario's detractors often say that he personally isn't that interesting a dancer; however nearly every follower comes away from a dance with him cooing.
In my opinion, he looks good because he makes his partners look good, he dances for them, not himself.

 

[El Caobo]

A few weeks ago a salsa 'name' got me up dancing, this guy is soooooooooo out of my league and was dancing to my level without a hint of boredom, he managed to make me feel like I was the only other person in that room. I was able to forget WHO I was dancing with and remember WHY I love dancing. No matter whether you're a leader or a follower, if you make the other person FEEL special for those 4 or 5 minutes, the dance will BE special.

I agree with this whole-heartedly!

The truly exceptional dancers are those who are confident enough within their own skin that they don't have to be the "star" of the dance floor every dance. They are not concerned that someone will make them look bad. So, they are not embarrassed by dancing with someone of lesser ability. They dance with the lesser dancers and make them feel great.

I haven't been doing much dancing lately, but at one time I had been taking lessons and was pretty good. However, my goal was always to make the follower sort of "fall in love with me" during the dance. My dance card was always full.

 

[AndrewD]

If you dance with someone and they look bored throughout, simply thank them for the dance then cross them off your dance card permanently, it's not your problem, it's theirs - they are the ones burning their bridges.

My preferred approach is to not ask them again for a month and try again. I’ve been having a sort of running battle with a salsa princess at a club I attend.

First dance = bored expression.
Second dance = seemed quite interested, smiled from time to time.
Third dance = pretty sure she remembered me from last time, pretty ‘cool’ attitude, but no longer bored.
Last night = fantastic dance, she even hugged me when the song ended!

There are three more princesses I aim to convert over the coming months. I’m doing reasonably well with one – but the other two are proving tougher nuts to crack.

 

[Swannie]

if u put too much stress on things u shouldnt be thinking about then u might aswell wanna stop dancing.
next time ur out dancing, just TRY to let go , it needs a lil bit of time but it finally works.

I like how you put that lolita, thanks. I will give that a go, I expect like almost everything letting go is a gradual thing, and I can conciously help it along
Interestingly, do you come from a performing background? Dance or singing? It seems that people that grew up on stage find it easier to let go on the dance floor.

(Like most kids I was on stage a couple of times, I absolutely hated it. I hate doing presentations. Gah, I even go bright red from embarrisment asking a question in a departmental meeting!)

It took me about 6 months, from October 2000 to April 2001.

It was a very nice sensation, as Robert Duvall I felt it smelt like.... VICTORY.

Advice to newcomers: BE patient, and result will come.

I refer expecially to men, since we have leading responsibilities.

"smelt like... VICTORY" mhh, does that smell like freshly baked cake?

Patience. True. In the last few weeks of my dancing what I do in the class is coming out on the dance floor, and pulling other bits and bobs out of my memory too. I've been waiting for this for the last 3 months. This week I'll have been dancing just over 6 months. I knew it would come, and it did. I just don't want it to hear it will take 2 more years before I can really relax, enjoy the music and the dancing

 

[Swannie]

My preferred approach is to not ask them again for a month and try again. I’ve been having a sort of running battle with a salsa princess at a club I attend.
...

Nice. Little stories like that give me confidence. Thank you for sharing

 

[Swannie]

Very interesting question and I can’t really say at what point I became comfortable with myself and my dancing, all I know is that it happened relatively recently and I’ve really started to cut loose on the dance-floor. I've been dancing for almost a year
...
The most important thing is confidence, you have to be happy with yourself and your abilities - all followers react better when they are in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, even if it's just an on-time basic step.
...
I try and work out what they like (and it isn’t necessarily multiple spins) and do these things whilst displaying an appreciation of the music.
I then feed off their energy, taking my dancing up a level; this wins more appreciation from them and so on...a virtuous circle.
...
but most advanced ladies appreciate the opportunity to display some of the talents they’ve taken years of practice to acquire.
...
Just to add; don't worry too much about funky body isolations and fancy footwork.

Cool, hopefully it will come soon for me too :banana:. I do try and lead within my *easy* zone, and try to add in one move per class into that zone throughout my next few dancing session. But it is tempting when you haven't seen a look of ejnoyment to try and find it in complicated moves.

I can totally relate to the virtuous cycle. On the rare occasion when I have been able to throw caution to the wind (usually after a few words of encouragement from a friend, and possibly a lil' bit of alcohol) I've had some really fun dances, and they just get better and better as you go through.

Hmm, never really though that the advanced lady wants a chance to show off her skills - maybe I should use the T stance with the really good people I dance with, thats always fun if they are having fun

I like fancy footwork, it's a technical challenge. And body isolations, well, they have applications in my martial arts too The same reasons why I am thinking of taking a street dance/hip hop class in the spring

 

[Swannie]

Swannie, You sound like a really considerate leader and genuinely care about whether the follower is enjoying the dance, your dance card should be full

Aww, thanks for the vote of confidence Jambo, with such a good attitude like that, if I ever end up at the same venue, you can have top place on my non-existant dance card =)

 

[Sabor]

it keeps on getting more and more relaxing with time.. the process never really ends i think.. in varying degrees.. as u keep rediscovering hidden motion every now and then..

accordingly ... we could say there are phases that u keep going thru and it just keeps getting sweeter.. as u find yourself doing more with less.. and the difference bwteen heart, mind and body gets thinner and thinner.. creations start sprouting ... salsa (using it as a relevant example for dance) becomes your own expression.. but still .. there's no end as u continue getting more and more relaxed.. thats the beauty of it.. it never stops..

the first time i felt i made a major breakthrough was after maybe 6 months or so.. i've been dancing salsa going on 8 years now ..and the process is still going.. aint that just fantabulous

 

[sweavo]

it keeps on getting more and more relaxing with time.. the process never really ends i think.. in varying degrees.. as u keep rediscovering hidden motion every now and then..

this. I have no memory of a time before I danced relaxed to music. Sometimes I lose that if I try too hard and work at the harder moves I've not tried lately... but the best nights are when I do NO worrying at all, EVERYthing is good...

That said, I've seen videos of me dancing just 2 years ago and I hope I don't look like that now! Well, I know I don't but I might look just as dumb in a different way. The key thing is, I'm enjoying the dancing too much to care whether it's right or not.

 

[Jambo]

Swannie, You sound like a really considerate leader and genuinely care about whether the follower is enjoying the dance, your dance card should be full

Aww, thanks for the vote of confidence Jambo, with such a good attitude like that, if I ever end up at the same venue, you can have top place on my non-existant dance card =)

:banana: Woo hoo!! I'm on somebody's dance card. Thank you Swannie

maybe I should use the T stance

Oh, you wouldn't want to do that with me though......my mind always goes blank and I have a tendancy to look like a crucified gibbon :shock:

 

[Tony_salvi]

To me this answer is always changing and evolving because I'm constantly learning. There are some moves I just HAVE to concentrate hard on, and there are others that I can execute without thinking about. But like some have mentioned, 6 months was when I really started to "get it" . Even then there are some things you still can't do musicality-wise. Personally I wish I could easily lead dips...but alas I have no clue how to do this safely and comfortably so I don't. And it really irks me when at the end of a song I cannot sowly dip my partner to accent the last note. But ehh..I still have fun and I know I will eventually learn the proper technique.

 

[praecantricis]

I've been dancing 2 years and i'm definately not relaxed when I dance...well that's not exactly true...when I'm dancing with someone like AndrewD who I know is hightly unlikely to lead me into someone else on the floor (and has great musicality by the way) I can focus more on him and the music and less on whether i'm about to be thrown into another couple and therefore I feel more relaxed. I think it helps that I know i've been dancing a bit longer than him so I don't feel intimidated. I am intimidated pretty easily....I still can't relax when I dance with 'names' and instructors, or even anyone new, I just really focus on trying to follow well and I know I don't dance my best because of that.

Bachata however is a completely different matter. I love the music and I can't help but actually DANCE to it rather than just follow leads. I am at my most happy and relaxed when dancing Bachata. Plus the way Inaki Fernandez teaches it there's a lot of give and take in Bachata. When you have a good leader, the girl has a lot of scope to do her own thing which gives me the freedom to just interpret the music...I hope that one day I can get to that stage when I salsa too....


*QUICK HIJACK*

I’ve been having a sort of running battle with a salsa princess at a club I attend.

Since I go to the same club as you I really REALLY want to know who you mean...well I sort of thought I knew until you mentioned 3 others! Oh god I so hopeone of them isn't me now I said I like dancing with you!
*END HIJACK*

 

[salsachinita]

Branching off the discussion from Are You In A Salsa Clique ... And Why?

This is one of my old threads, while not directly related, it probably makes interesting read for my SF family: http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=1872

Definately good reading.

Oooh, thankyou, Swannie!

To answer your original question: How long did it take for you to relax into salsa?.......

I would say: how long is a piece of string?

The actual time depends a lot on personality, methinks. If you happen to be a self-driven perfectionist, it will take longer to relax than Joe Cool who simply doesn't let anything worry him ......

And this chart:

From Edie the Salsa Freak

I believe many aspects of salsa dynamics can be explained by this chart 8) .

As for me: it took me a loooooong time to relax (possibliy more years than many SFers have been dancing!), because I'm my own worst critics by nature. Self-esteem takes a while to grow (of course, being longer in the tooth helps a whole lot :lol: ).

 

[lolita]

Interestingly, do you come from a performing background? Dance or singing? It seems that people that grew up on stage find it easier to let go on the dance floor.

YES..back in school i used to perform almost every week, i would go on stage and head master would make an example of the bad girl in school out of me so that other lil kids won't get detention notes like me. that's the only performing i did.

 

[ville]

6 months - 1 year, somewhere in between. Been dancing for little bit over a year now.