How do teachers decide what to teach you?

I envy people that can just dance on their own. I never could and tbh I don't believe this will change. Whenever I tried to learn from Youtube etc it didn't end well. I thought I was doing good but I didn't.

I was one of those people. I had a lot of problems learning from Youtube the first 5 years of learning Salsa. It led me to stop learning from Youtube altogether.

Dancing on my own? Forget it. Wasn’t happening. At that point I still wasn’t able to enjoy being comfortable in my own body, let alone listening to music and dancing all by my lonesome (wihch is probably one of the best ways to get immersed in Salsa). Even if some people considered me ‘advanced’, I still wasn’t able to just enjoy the most basic things.

That changed around 2019 when many more options for online lessons started surfacing and I took more agency in developing myself as a dancer.

Then in 2020 the whole Zoom revolution happened and advanced the online learning landscape by leaps and bounds.

But regardless of which methods I’ve used, I was always the one putting in the work (when motivated). If I had stopped practicing, I would still be stuck at the same level, which of course leads to frustration. Even advanced/pro dancers feel it. To get over it is to get over yourself and have fun. Some people groan when people say “just have fun”, but it’s true. How can you expect to continue doing something if you don’t have fun? I don’t care if you’ve been dancing 10 years and have achieved technical mastery (which is quite a short period of time to do). If you don’t enjoy it, you will eventually quit.

Every day, I love Salsa even more. Even if I don’t get many opportunies to dance, my desire to dance grows ever more with each passing minute. I don’t dance to get my fix. That to me now sounds like the most shallow thing in the world to chase. It’s not a drug. It’s part of who I am.

I have the luxury now of hindsight because I can say “I’ve been through all of that” and all of the trials, drawbacks, frustrations I’ve experienced all led me to where I am now, which is being relaxed, inspired and genuinely in love.
 
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I was one of those people. I had a lot of problems learning from Youtube the first 5 years of learning Salsa. It led me to stop learning from Youtube altogether.

Dancing on my own? Forget it. Wasn’t happening. At that point I still wasn’t able to enjoy being comfortable in my own body, let alone listening to music and dancing all by my lonesome (wihch is probably one of the best ways to get immersed in Salsa). Even if some people considered me ‘advanced’, I still wasn’t able to just enjoy the most basic things.

That changed around 2019 when many more options for online lessons started surfacing and I took more agency in developing myself as a dancer.

Then in 2020 the whole Zoom revolution happened and advanced the online learning landscape by leaps and bounds.

But regardless of which methods I’ve used, I was always the one putting in the work (when motivated). If I had stopped practicing, I would still be stuck at the same level, which of course leads to frustration. Even advanced/pro dancers feel it. To get over it is to get over yourself and have fun. Some people groan when people say “just have fun”, but it’s true. How can you expect to continue doing something if you don’t have fun? I don’t care if you’ve been dancing 10 years and have achieved technical mastery (which is quite a short period of time to do). If you don’t enjoy it, you will eventually quit.

Every day, I love Salsa even more. Even if I don’t get many opportunies to dance, my desire to dance grows ever more with each passing minute. I don’t dance to get my fix. That to me now sounds like the most shallow thing in the world to chase. It’s not a drug. It’s part of who I am.

I have the luxury now of hindsight because I can say “I’ve been through all of that” and all of the trials, drawbacks, frustrations I’ve experienced all led me to where I am now, which is being relaxed, inspired and genuinely in love.
that's really beautiful. I have to say I find it very hard to believe you weren't one of those shining stars who mastered salsa in no time and left everyone else far behind :) maybe there is hope for me after all
 
that's really beautiful. I have to say I find it very hard to believe you weren't one of those shining stars who mastered salsa in no time and left everyone else far behind :) maybe there is hope for me after all

Being a veteran in the scene (comparatively speaking),I see how good people can get in a short period of time - say between 5-7 years.

For people who haven’t been dancing long, it’s very difficult to see a version of themselves in the future. How can they? They have barely even scratched the surface.

With the benefit of some more experience, you can more easily make judgements of your progress.

I’m sure people who have been dancing 30+ years look at me and say “young man, relax and take your time.”.

Just as I look at people in the 20s and early 30s and say “Such young bucks in their athletic primes can’t seem to stop spinning lol”

My next major milestone will be my 20th anniversary of dancing Salsa. I am hoping that my sense of wonder and amazement will remain as is, because that’s what keeps me feeling like I can keep doing this forever.
 
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Just as I look at people in the 20s and early 30s and say “Such young bucks in their athletic primes can’t seem to stop spinning lol”
Hmm, that does kind of sound like me … minus the young bucks in their 20s and 30s part :)
Congrats on the salsa anniversary! My 20 year mark rather passed me by as it was technically during my two year pandemic enforced hiatus. I think in your case it will be a lot more special:)
 
I envy people that can just dance on their own. I never could and tbh I don't believe this will change.
Yes, it won't ever change because you don't believe it will. If you want to start dancing on your own, you have to first start believing you can.

Here's what I want you to start doing. For 5 days in the morning and before you go to sleep, close your eyes and visualize yourself dancing on your own. Move your arms, shimmy your hands, raise your legs, shimmy and roll your shoulders, basic step it, isolate/move your feet, simple movements don't dance in one spot. What's important is that it doesn't have to be grandiose dance movements, all that matters is that you see yourself moving when you start your day, and in bed before you go to sleep. If you want to try one particular movement, then visualize that movement (repetition), while still seeing yourself move around. During these days, listen to 4 or 5 salsa songs you like. 6th day, get in the laboratory (bedroom, kitchen, living room) and start experimenting with dance and those 5 songs. Have fun, and don't be afraid to mess up. Maybe key in on a particular instrument and play off of that too.

After a week of daily lab work, play a new salsa song in the lab, practice with a ghost partner doing your basic step, cross body lead, few turns here and there, while listening to what the song is doing. When the song changes to the instrumental section and the singing stops, let go of your "partner" and dance on your own. When the singing resumes return to the partner dance.

It won't be like a light switch, but it will happen, and when the Amun flow arrives you'll be surprised and happy when your feet take over. However, that's only going to happen when you think you can dance on your own. Don't self-sabotage :)
 
I envy people that can just dance on their own. I never could and tbh I don't believe this will change. Whenever I tried to learn from Youtube etc it didn't end well. I thought I was doing good but I didn't. I totally get that people keep asking about teachers and schools. I have a long list of "no go" if anyone asked and a very limited list of great teachers. At this moment I'm in the best course I've attended so far, the teacher spent a lot of hours just correcting my totally botched basics. Everyone is different, there are natural dancers, there are people not this great but willing to learn and improving, and then what I've seen in practically every class, people that are willing to learn, never skip a class but are totally immune to any sort of progress.

Learning and dancing are two completely different animals. The latter is application of the former. People learn in different ways (don’t know how many times I have used that line). They are related, there is cause and effect, but different. A good learner doesn’t make you a good dancer magically. Let’s separate how you learn from how you dance.

I agree with those who have said believe in yourself and not self-sabotage. Do you enjoy dancing? I am sure you do given all the time and commitment you are putting into learning. Are there dances when you feel things just worked or were effortless. To break that down I will describe that as

(a) mechanically you being on semi-autopilot. If you got a signal for an outside turn or CBL, you could just do it without consciously thinking “how” you were going to do it.

(b) dance with more free space in your head. That means for a follower you are not anxious about anticipating next, as a leader you are not in your head on what is next thing to lead.

(c) you are able to not just hear but also listen to what’s happening in the music. You may not yet have all the tools to do what you will like. But at least you are able to visualize where the music is going, anticipate the accents, hear and listen what’s happening in the musical rhythms and melody. Somewhere between passive and active listening. The more towards active side you can be the better. Again you will need to have more free space in your head to accommodate non-passive listening.

(d). As a follower can you recognize the type of the lead and adjust your dancing accordingly. You may like or not like particular style. But can you just follow as long as the leader is not doing some crazy stuff way beyond your capabilities.

(e) [on1/on2 specific] - are comfortable when dancing apart. Or do you feel anxious like that part end and leader will pick up back up.

Each of above you may be on different spectrum when dancing. The more dances you are having in an evening where you feel they all come together nicely the better. Sometimes you will have like close to perfect dance, everything just clicks.

When we tell people go out dancing more and have fun, it doesn’t mean have fun only when you can dance perfectly. It means be forgiving of your imperfections, accept that you will forever be imperfect, others are in the same boat as you, find joy in being able to dance the night away.

You can learn driving in a parking lot all you want and keep getting better. But you are still going in circles. Nothing prepares you for driving on the actual road conditions with the traffic, unless you do it.

People that don’t skip a class, willing to learn but not progress require individual attention on what is blocking the progress. I witness that in some form with the older beginners (40s/50s) and less with younger beginners (20s/30s). It is a different thread on why that might happen and how to fix it.

Learning from youtube. I will be surprised if anyone can unless they have reached a stage where they are highly self-aware of their own dance movements, can intuitively grasp the mechanics of movement breakdown, know how to fix themselves when the movement goes wrong, etc. Most average social dancers will be probably never get there. You have to be some kind of dance nerd and experienced dancer to be able to learn from youtube on your own. Most teachers are hardly capable of imparting teaching in person. Add remoteness and one way non-interactive nature of YouTube as a medium (where there is no feedback loop from the teacher), imagine why you would expect it to help? If teacher has thought of it and customize their methods for remote teaching then it could work but it still will not work for everyone. You may lack pre-requisites, you may not be able to adjust to receive learning, you may lack extra discipline needed, many factors come into play.

I totally agree with don’t self-sabotage. You will discover one day that your feet at just flowing. I had been dancing for about 11 months or so. I always found social dancing fun from the very first day though I was never a natural dancer. I was very self conscious Mr. Two left feet or so I thought. I would go out as much social dancing as I could. Two to four times a week. Mostly two. One night after a dance a very experienced and influential dancer grabs me says “congrats, man”. I was a bit bewildered what he meant. He says you are dancing in the flow. Next day he puts a big blog headlined “Congratulations to Offbeat, he has arrived” on the local scene website that everyone reads and participated on. Firstly it was embarrassing to be put in spotlight. Second, I am thinking I still dance offbeat, I still this, I still that. I didn’t dare ask the advance followers even when they were very friendly. Especially those who look good and stood apart due to their body movements.
 
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Any class that enables you to go out social dancing. Let’s face facts. There are lots of bad teachers out there. If you can get some basic training somewhere (even bad training), it should be enough to get you dancing in the clubs, where you’ll be doing most of your practicing anyway. Although these days it seems people don’t want to go dancing at clubs anymore and are even afraid of going to socials. My gosh.

I believe more in personal agency when it comes to learning how to partner dance. Take matters into your own hands. Find like minded people who want to practice and practice often. Go try out different schools and don’t get sucked into brand loyalty. If you can learn online, do that.

With respect, I still don't think you have answered the question. The answer of classes don't make you any better is too much of a negative answer and has no solution. What is the end goal of classes? What should it be and what should it teach you? Is it to expose you to as many movements and variations as possible?

In the past, I believe you said you need a mixture of everything to improve. One does need classes to learn new movements and variations that you can then practice in a social, but how does the reacher decide what to teach? Is he or she making it up on a the fly. Some teachers only teacher at big parties and festivals type events as opposed to progressive classes, meaning he or she is teaching to a completely new group of people as opposed to a regular group. What determines what this teacher teaches? What do you think he should teach?

And the about "McSalsa", to be fair, most teachers adopt the same approach. They teach an hour of figures, before the social. This is still the basic model of a class. I haven't seen much variation on it.
 
One does need classes to learn new movements and variations that you can then practice in a social, but how does the reacher decide what to teach? Is he or she making it up on a the fly.

The answer is that some teachers teach on the fly and some teach according to a strict syllabus that has been passed down to them. The quality of instruction will be up to the individual teacher.

IMO, the best teachers don’t teach according to a system that was developed by some ancient figure or headmaster type. But teaching by the seat of your pants isn’t the answer either. In my experience, the best teachers are typically individuals who teach alone and have been able to filter most things into basic teaching concepts.


Some teachers only teacher at big parties and festivals type events as opposed to progressive classes, meaning he or she is teaching to a completely new group of people as opposed to a regular group. What determines what this teacher teaches? What do you think he should teach?

A teacher who only teaches at big parties and festivals is not a teacher. They are there to make a profit.

A real teacher will have a system they’ve developed after years of experience.

I don’t like it when teachers are trained to regurgitate a syllabus created by someone else. A teacher should have agency to modify things as they see fit when the syllabus fails, which it often does.

What do I think teachers should teach? For starters, they should understand the basic principles of Salsa movement. They should have a good understanding of the leader/follower dynamic. They should understand the music and how it relates to the dance. These are things most Salsa teachers lack since they are so concerned with teaching figures and patterns.
 
And this goes for all of the dances. So everyone who goes to classes will be taught a new figure. There will be some technique or more technical moves, and minimal musicality. Where does this figure cone from? How was it chosen? Do some teachers make them up on the fly? What is the end goal of teaching different figures every week? Is it to expose students to as many things as possible? Perhaps it may even to be to establish yourself as a dance teacher. To teach things that are more unique or inventive. What is the source and driver here?

I remember an instructor by the name of Mario B in New Jersey would actually have a curriculum that was posted so everyone could see what material was being taught in the cycle.
 
I remember an instructor by the name of Mario B in New Jersey would actually have a curriculum that was posted so everyone could see what material was being taught in the cycle.

My old schools did that. They listed entire curriculums on their websites. Now when I go look, there doesn’t seem to be anything listed under classes. Just the name of the class and the level but no description about what is taught at each level. I’m curious if this is widespread.
 
My old schools did that. They listed entire curriculums on their websites. Now when I go look, there doesn’t seem to be anything listed under classes. Just the name of the class and the level but no description about what is taught at each level. I’m curious if this is widespread.

I actually thought this was a great approach because it was very organized and kind of like the experience I got at a "real school." This was particularly useful when it came to teaching/learning shines.
 
I actually thought this was a great approach because it was very organized and kind of like the experience I got at a "real school." This was particularly useful when it came to teaching/learning shines.

I think for adults learning something new, having a syllabus helps remove some of the uncertainty.

Knowing that there was a pathway to what I was doing kept me looking forward to classes. For example, I knew that in level 3, I would be learning double spins, etc.

I find it surprising that schools that were once transparent in their system have now deleted this information publicly.

Websites now look flashier, more colorful and vibrant but contain relatively useless information.
 
When we tell people go out dancing more and have fun, it doesn’t mean have fun only when you can dance perfectly. It means be forgiving of your imperfections, accept that you will forever be imperfect, others are in the same boat as you, find joy in being able to dance the night away.

I just signed up and am a very new dancer, but I just wanted to say this is the most amazing thing I have read here (and there has been much). This has been my same philosophy for writing, playing music, and frankly, just living. Cheers.
 
And this goes for all of the dances. So everyone who goes to classes will be taught a new figure. There will be some technique or more technical moves, and minimal musicality. Where does this figure cone from? How was it chosen? Do some teachers make them up on the fly? What is the end goal of teaching different figures every week? Is it to expose students to as many things as possible? Perhaps it may even to be to establish yourself as a dance teacher. To teach things that are more unique or inventive. What is the source and driver here?
If the school has a syllabus then the answer is simple. If the classes are focused on building partnerwork skills and increasing vocabulary, then they could be based on footwork patterns inspired by the syllabus. Generally teachers will look at the students that they have in the class and try to adjust to what's in the room. This is often done in the moment.
 
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