How *controlled* is your dancing?

[Brownskin818]

Are your movements deliberate and precise? Are you conscious about your dancing as you dance? Or do you practice in studio/class time and hope that the results will eventually and naturally rear themselves on the floor? (Speaking more of fundamentals, style and nuance execution rather than pattern recollection)

Is anyone working towards any of this? Do you appreciate it when you see such controlled/poised dancers? Or does it look too contrived and stagey? For those that have been on dance teams, did choreography and synchronization give you a good dose of this?

Just curious because it seems that some things I want to work on will require non-stop control. And I'm afraid my dancing would become less carefree and more of a social effort than I'd care for. Any thoughts? (I hope this made sense)

 

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

Are your movements deliberate and precise?

I sincerely hope so.

Are you conscious about your dancing as you dance? ?

Oh yes, though not all the time. But a lot of the time.

Or do you practice in studio/class time and hope that the results will eventually and naturally rear themselves on the floor? (Speaking more of fundamentals, style and nuance execution rather than pattern recollection)?

Yep. Practice and hope too.

Is anyone working towards any of this? ?

Yep. Me.

Do you appreciate it when you see such controlled/poised dancers? ?Or does it look too contrived and stagey?
For those that have been on dance teams, did choreography and synchronization give you a good dose of this??

I'd rather answer this from the point of view of dancing WITH someone rather than watching them. One of my favourite folllowers in the world can look a bit gawky to watch from the sidelines, but she's a total dream to dance with. Her control means I can lead better, and think more about MY control and about our interaction, rather than trying to wrestle her to where I'm trying to get her, or waiting for her to come back from overturning, etc.

I've never danced choreography and I prefer partner dancing to performance dancing so I'm not really bothered what we look like cos it's a personal thing bewteen us on the dancefloor. Mostly.

Dancers with too much emphasis on style and little on control are sometimes awful to dance with as they can be all over the place and near unleadable. I'd whole heartedly recommend learning control first and then adding styling later. Once the control is under the belt, it's like anything - the better you are at it, the less you have to think about it and the more of your brain you can use to think about other aspects of the discipline.

Just curious because it seems that some things I want to work on will require non-stop control. And I'm afraid my dancing would become less carefree and more of a social effort than I'd care for. Any thoughts??

See above.

(I hope this made sense)

You did. Hope I did too.

 

[MacMoto]

Are your movements deliberate and precise? Are you conscious about your dancing as you dance? Or do you practice in studio/class time and hope that the results will eventually and naturally rear themselves on the floor? (Speaking more of fundamentals, style and nuance execution rather than pattern recollection)

Is anyone working towards any of this?

I'm certainly trying to work on control in my dancing. I try to be conscious about my movements when dancing (even though I can't say I do it all the time). I have a long way to go, but I'm hoping that I'm starting to show signs of improvement.

Just curious because it seems that some things I want to work on will require non-stop control. And I'm afraid my dancing would become less carefree and more of a social effort than I'd care for. Any thoughts? (I hope this made sense)

I'm curious -- what sort of things are you working on?

 

[irishgirl]

What I try to do in terms of putting new things in to my dancing, things i want to correct of which I always have a list ....is ...do it one or two things at a time for one song

Types of basic dance things i try to put in would be a very tidy basic, holding my core as tight as I can, hand positioning at all times, leaning forward not back etc etc - these are just a few of things on my list right now


However, when I dance with a more advanced lead most of this goes straight out the window unless I know his moves well and can maybe try and implement one thing but usually I try to work on my styling in these situations because he is going to give me more opportunity to style/shine etc.

So i reserve all the other things for dancing wtih beginner or intermediate guys. Not that I don't give each guy as good as dance as I can but realistically if you are dancing with someone who isn't moving at light speed, you have more time to think yourself about things you want to put in etc.

Also, I try not to do this all night because i don't want social dancing to become a chore, it has to be fun.

Theoretically over time these things should all work their way into my dancing all of the time...

Also - i think if you think all of the time you are maybe blocking the path that lets in creativity and surprises - like "oooh where did that styling come from" type moments....and often I find the dances that challenge (but not terrify me!) me are the ones that bring the creativity out.

edit: disclaimer: using terms such as beginner/intermediate / advanced....etc etc all relative/subjective etc!

 

[JonesNikka]

Since I want my dancing to look as narural and easy as walking, I think about it as much as Ithink about my walking. Every now and then check my posture and -on crowdes floors, the size of my steps but i rely more on steady practice of basic steps.

As for contrived and artificial, I think is is the dancers who memoryze patterns and then try to reproduce them during social dancing that look stiff and not poised but posed.

Choreography is a good way of becoming wawre of posture and poise because you do not have to worry about lead and follow; but it is to be avoided on a social dancefloor

 

[Salsamakossa]

Brownskin,

I think it is a rite of passage. There has to be a phase of control, as you practice whatever you are doing, before it becomes 'natural'. So, I would say you have to give yourself some time to inculcate what you are trying to do into your repertoire....

Are your movements deliberate and precise? Are you conscious about your dancing as you dance? Or do you practice in studio/class time and hope that the results will eventually and naturally rear themselves on the floor? (Speaking more of fundamentals, style and nuance execution rather than pattern recollection)

Is anyone working towards any of this? Do you appreciate it when you see such controlled/poised dancers? Or does it look too contrived and stagey? For those that have been on dance teams, did choreography and synchronization give you a good dose of this?

Just curious because it seems that some things I want to work on will require non-stop control. And I'm afraid my dancing would become less carefree and more of a social effort than I'd care for. Any thoughts? (I hope this made sense)

 

[chrisk]

Are your movements deliberate and precise? Are you conscious about your dancing as you dance? Or do you practice in studio/class time and hope that the results will eventually and naturally rear themselves on the floor? (Speaking more of fundamentals, style and nuance execution rather than pattern recollection)

I hope that my movements are deliberate and precise while looking natural. So I'm a bit conscious about my dancing, especially when it I try something new or something I'm currently working on. But I'm also trying not to be to conscious, so that I can let the music move me. So I also like to regular watch myself on video to get a better perspective how my dancing and movements look.

 

[noobster]

Are your movements deliberate and precise? Are you conscious about your dancing as you dance? Or do you practice in studio/class time and hope that the results will eventually and naturally rear themselves on the floor?

Like irishgirl, I work on stuff on the floor all the time - but it depends on the dance. If the leads are clear and not too complicated I have time to think about stuff like controlled movements, stepping behind the beat, emphasizing the break step, or whatever's on my mind at the moment. Some dances demand all my attention to following, and others are so much fun that I refuse to waste them by thinking about my technique.

But I do think I become more able to implement technique without thinking about it by thinking about it when possible.

Is anyone working towards any of this? Do you appreciate it when you see such controlled/poised dancers? Or does it look too contrived and stagey?

I don't think poise/control looks contrived/stagey. My favorite followers to watch in NYC had perfect, perfect control all the time, but they didn't look stagey in the least.

I don't think there's any downside at all to good control. More control is always better. I think you can be free, relaxed, imaginative, spontaneous, and all that good stuff and still be in control. I suspect it's a matter of making it second nature.

 

[osoto]

More control

If I may put my 2 cents in:

I believe dancing is ALWAYS about control. It's also about creating an illusion. When you reach the point that everything looks effortless, elegant and fluid--when in reality it has taken you a lot of effort and practice--then you have arrived.

If you ever read about Fred Astaire, you will know that he was a perfectionist that spent many, many hours practicing his dance routines, and getting them "right", before he perfomed them for the camera. Yet, when he danced, he always looked as if he was simply having fun. Every artist must spend many hours perfecting his/her craft to elevate it above the rest of the crowd. You simply have to determine what makes sense to you as far as the Return-On-Investment for your efforts.

Hope this helps and you don't mind my sounding preachy.
Above all, keep dancing and focus on enjoying it, and the practice will make you better.

 

[Flex]

Re: More control

When you reach the point that everything looks effortless, elegant and fluid--when in reality it has taken you a lot of effort and practice--then you have arrived.

Yes, this is right - as with any art form.

 

[sweavo]

And I'm afraid my dancing would become less carefree and more of a social effort than I'd care for. Any thoughts? (I hope this made sense)

The fear of losing the carefreeness (new word!) is something that's followed me through my life. I have more often regretted NOT putting in the effort to learn a boring technique than I have regretted learning a technique. Maybe you just need a sort of "temple door" in your head... when you step inside you are in focussed, learning mode, then when you step outside you put all that away again. If you treat learning to dance and dancing as two separate activities, the one should spoil the other... after all you don't ask whether, e.g. your ability to drive affects your dancing...

 

[UnlikelySalsero]

Re: More control

If I may put my 2 cents in:

I believe dancing is ALWAYS about control. It's also about creating an illusion. When you reach the point that everything looks effortless, elegant and fluid--when in reality it has taken you a lot of effort and practice--then you have arrived.

If you ever read about Fred Astaire, you will know that he was a perfectionist that spent many, many hours practicing his dance routines, and getting them "right", before he perfomed them for the camera. Yet, when he danced, he always looked as if he was simply having fun. Every artist must spend many hours perfecting his/her craft to elevate it above the rest of the crowd. You simply have to determine what makes sense to you as far as the Return-On-Investment for your efforts.

<snip>

I've seen the exact same thing as a musician. You practice control exercises so that you don't have to think about anything specific during the performance. BUT in the process of adding something new, it can temporarily downgrade your performance slightly.

Funny thing is, once you reach a certain level, nobody else really notices the downgrade but you. And the few times they do, they forget about it because they are worried about them, not you. Over time, you have the control and that opens other doors and new possibilities.

It's hard to be carefree when introducing new materials into your social dance, but everybody goes through those phases where the new thing "works" but it's far from graceful.

I submit if you never have any uncomfortable moments on the floor, you are never stretching. If you stretch sometimes things don't work, but that is just as valuable for learning as having things go "perfect". There are points where you need to think about "what is my hand/foot/shoulder doing during that move" but that is just short term while fine-tuning something.

Control takes time and practice away from the floor, and then it still takes time doing in live. Some things won't work very well live, even if they worked great in practice (totally different environment). In X months you will not think of the new control, it will just be there and you'll have new, upgraded material available and you'll still be having fun.

You decide if the effort is worth it, it depends how much better you want to be in the future.

I doubt anybody on this thread told you anything you didn't already know! I've seen you dance and at your worst you are always a blast for your partner.

 

[narcosis]

If you treat learning to dance and dancing as two separate activities, the one should spoil the other... after all you don't ask whether, e.g. your ability to drive affects your dancing...

This sounds vaguely familiar to something I've seen in a past thread either here or over at DF.

Something about taking dance classes and learning steps and steps and more steps. But one day you learn to dance, and it is just so different.

 

[osoto]

No pain, no gain...

You're so right Unlikely Salsero. I was a street dancer for many years and when I came to NYC people used to say "You dance so well. Do you dance on 1 or on 2? I had to respond that I did not know." Then I started taking lessons because I wanted to get to the next level and do some of the fancy steps I saw at the clubs. For this I had to learn to understand the music structure and count the beats.

At the beginning, I felt quite inadequate putting numbers to stuff that I used to do without thinking. However, once I assimilated that information I became a such a strong dancer that I could recognize step and turn patterns and break them down in my mind simply by looking.

There's just no great art without effort and discipline.

 

[Big10]

Are your movements deliberate and precise? Are you conscious about your dancing as you dance? Or do you practice in studio/class time and hope that the results will eventually and naturally rear themselves on the floor? (Speaking more of fundamentals, style and nuance execution rather than pattern recollection)

Whenever possible, I try to be as precise as possible with my timing, and I will periodically think about it while I'm dancing. I'm not continuously counting "123-567" in my head, but every few eight-counts I will think, "Am I still on the '1'? Okay, good," -- and then keep going. I really hate to be off.

I am less conscious about my general body movements during social dancing, unless it is something that I have been specifically practicing. For example, I have been trying to improve my arm position and the way I step, so I will occasionally think about those things during an evening of social dancing. Usually much moreso during the first song or two of the night, hoping that I'm setting up my muscle memory correctly. After that, not so much.

Do you appreciate it when you see such controlled/poised dancers? Or does it look too contrived and stagey?

To me, there's a difference between being "controlled" versus "precise." When I hear the word "precise" regarding body movement, I think of a type of exact repetition that comes across as rigid -- and I don't want that. I do have a personal goal of the way I want to appear, but I accept a reasonable range of fluctuation so that I don't get too frustrated with myself if I'm not perfect, and it also creates a more natural appearance. Keeping my movement within that range is the type of control I want, without being overly precise. For example, if you signed 5 different checks in a row, your signature would rarely be exactly the same for any of them, even though it's still your signature. Indeed, if a bank saw 5 different checks with the exact same appearance of the signature, there would be some suspicion of forgery/tracing, because it's rare for that to happen naturally.

In social dancing, control can be exerted in a way that still looks natural; however, dancing movements that are too precise and repeated too uniformly can come across as contrived/stagey.

 

[osoto]

Whenever possible, I try to be as precise as possible with my timing, and I will periodically think about it while I'm dancing. I'm not continuously counting "123-567" in my head, but every few eight-counts I will think, "Am I still on the '1'? Okay, good," -- and then keep going. I really hate to be off.

That's the beauty of dancing On-2! You are hitting the strong beats on 2 and 6 and the music is doing the counting for you. You just play the rhythm out with your feet. This, however, demands an understanding of the music, almost like the musician that is playing it. I thank my teachers in NYC for giving me that understanding.

 

[Big10]

Whenever possible, I try to be as precise as possible with my timing, and I will periodically think about it while I'm dancing. I'm not continuously counting "123-567" in my head, but every few eight-counts I will think, "Am I still on the '1'? Okay, good," -- and then keep going. I really hate to be off.

That's the beauty of dancing On-2! You are hitting the strong beats on 2 and 6 and the music is doing the counting for you. You just play the rhythm out with your feet. This, however, demands an understanding of the music, almost like the musician that is playing it. I thank my teachers in NYC for giving me that understanding.

I don't want to turn this thread into an On1 versus On2 discussion -- so I'll simply say that the music does the counting for me On1 also. To be more specific with my quote from above, I listen to the music to tell me if I'm still on the "1" during my normal dancing just because I'm anal about that sort of thing, but I also listen for the "1" whenever my weight has shifted during an intricate move or after some fancy footwork that I've tried, so that I can be on time for my partner.

 

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

I'm occasionally told I'm a "natural" dancer - to which I reply "Yeah, but it's taken a LOT of hard work to get that way!"

 

[JonesNikka]

...I don't want to turn this thread into an On1 versus On2 discussion -- so I'll simply say that the music does the counting for me On1 also.

I agree. The music is just music until you accentuate one beat or another. Having good, well praciced technique will make any dancer look like a musician.

 

[devane]

Are your movements deliberate and precise? Are you conscious about your dancing as you dance? Or do you practice in studio/class time and hope that the results will eventually and naturally rear themselves on the floor? (Speaking more of fundamentals, style and nuance execution rather than pattern recollection)

Is anyone working towards any of this? Do you appreciate it when you see such controlled/poised dancers? Or does it look too contrived and stagey? For those that have been on dance teams, did choreography and synchronization give you a good dose of this?

Just curious because it seems that some things I want to work on will require non-stop control. And I'm afraid my dancing would become less carefree and more of a social effort than I'd care for. Any thoughts? (I hope this made sense)

Yeah, I do it all the time. It doesn't look contrived when you make it subconscious after a million repetitions. I know some girls who said that when buying a styling DVD and when then applied it felt forced. But after a while it feels natural. I used to join in on a beginners class and intermediate class just to iron out bad habits from the moves I knew. I would watch my posture, foot placement, add styling elements etc.

I have one teacher who used to teach in a more serious manner (in Brazi,l not here sadly). He told me you had to have perfect posture/poise before you can do even the most basic moves. After telling me where people tend
to make sloppy technique I made an effort to find my errors. I'm talking about bunny hopping, ducking your head under arms when you don't have to (like in sombrero if you know that move), looking up or down, leaning forward/backward unnecessarily etc. He told me that people think they have a good posture but they only stand up straight when doing the basic and as soon as they start to do any moves they are ducking and leaning and weaving and it's looks terrible. When you eliminate those things you look more at ease with time. And then people tell me you "you look so at ease and natural". You tell them about what I said above and then they say "You do that, practicing, you take it too seriously".
What can you do