quixotedlm
Changui
the showtimes are out on fandango, at least for my local theatres. so all's good 
Hector Lavoe Movie
- Thread starter Karlosism
- Start date
El Caobo
Son Montuno
I saw the movie.
I enjoyed it, but wasn't overly impressed.
Two things kept my expectations at a minimum:
1. The trailer announced the disclaimer that the movie was "inspired" by a true story. This kind of disclaimer gives filmakers the artistic discretion to do what they want, since they do not claim the movie to be the biography or biopic of Héctor Lavoe. In fact, I've noticed that only critics have been using the term "biopic," not the movie makers.
2. The movie portrays the events through the eyes of Héctor's wife, Puchi. This makes the movie uni-dimensional. One person could not have been omnipresent in the life of Héctor Lavoe. Also, if any two people describe a single event, undoubtedly their versions would be somewhat disparate. In the beginning of the movie, Puchi says "Yes, it's my version. If you want someone else's version let them come." That pretty much says it all. Since this was Puchi's versions of the "facts" and J-Lo consulted with her in making the film, I have to accept it as just that: Puchi's version. Willie's would be different. Pacheco's would be different. The fans' versions would be different, etcetera.
So, perhaps others will bring forth their versions of the "facts." Somewhere on the long continuum of disparate versions, many events will coincide. Yet, at the same time, at the extreme ends of that continuum there will be contradictions.
As for the production itself, I enjoyed the movie. It was well done.
I enjoyed it, but wasn't overly impressed.
Two things kept my expectations at a minimum:
1. The trailer announced the disclaimer that the movie was "inspired" by a true story. This kind of disclaimer gives filmakers the artistic discretion to do what they want, since they do not claim the movie to be the biography or biopic of Héctor Lavoe. In fact, I've noticed that only critics have been using the term "biopic," not the movie makers.
2. The movie portrays the events through the eyes of Héctor's wife, Puchi. This makes the movie uni-dimensional. One person could not have been omnipresent in the life of Héctor Lavoe. Also, if any two people describe a single event, undoubtedly their versions would be somewhat disparate. In the beginning of the movie, Puchi says "Yes, it's my version. If you want someone else's version let them come." That pretty much says it all. Since this was Puchi's versions of the "facts" and J-Lo consulted with her in making the film, I have to accept it as just that: Puchi's version. Willie's would be different. Pacheco's would be different. The fans' versions would be different, etcetera.
So, perhaps others will bring forth their versions of the "facts." Somewhere on the long continuum of disparate versions, many events will coincide. Yet, at the same time, at the extreme ends of that continuum there will be contradictions.
As for the production itself, I enjoyed the movie. It was well done.
Thanks for the insightful review, El Caobo.
El Caobo said:
I agree completely after seeing it myself. And as you said about the whole inspired by a true story thing the writers did change numerous things around in the story. The whole thing in the beginning and how Hector joins Willie Colon's band. The way Lavoe inherited the band from Willie, etc was changed. Also the chronological order in which Lavoe performs the songs.
I do have one question is the song Escandalo an original for the movie?
This was a great movie for me, and I hope those that love salsa will see it and encourage others to see it. I've seen numerous biographies and there will always be critics. Seeing the big picture, hopefully this movie will enlighten many about Lavoe and spark interest in our musical genre. There were many aspects of the movie I enjoyed including the acting by Marc Anthony, the music, the story line, and seeing salseros like Edwin Rivera (portrayed Roberto Roena), Tomas Guerrero, Griselle Ponce, Chachi and others on the big screen. Hopefully, we will see more movies about salsa or with salsa music in them. :lol:
El Caobo
Son Montuno
I ran into a very interesting article that was posted in a salsa related Yahoo group:
El Cantante Hits the Stars, Misses the Roots
New America Media, Commentary, Roberto Lovato, Posted: Aug 07, 2007
Editor's Note: The new movie about salsa legend Hector Lavoe has been criticized for focusing too much on its star, Jennifer Lopez, but its real omission is it fails to tell the story of the Puerto Rican community that inspired the music. Roberto Lovato is a New America Media contributing editor based in New York.
NEW YORK - For a single memorable moment, it appeared that real life and film had actually intersected in El Cantante. During the opening night at a cineplex near Times Square of the J-Lo and Marc Anthony movie about the salsa music legend Hector Lavoe, the digital film projector went out, sending the staff scrambling to fix the problem for fear of what the sellout crowd of mostly Puerto Ricans in the audience might do. There were grumblings, some whistling and calls for "refund" but in the end, enthusiasm for salsa music prevailed.
As the audience started clapping a clave (beat arrangement around which the complex, ancient rhythms & syncopations of African & Afro-Cuban music are organized) a handsome, goateed young Boricua (Puerto Rican) man in a colorful guayabera (summer shirt) got up from his seat near the front of the theater and started the call and response with "Mi Gente," one of the Lavoe songs featured in the movie. "La- la- la- la- la- la- la," called the young man, and the men, women and children in the audience, some of whom got up from their seats to dance, responded "Que baile mi gente" (let my people dance). As this went on for several minutes, you could feel how the music on-screen, and in us, still provided a sense of belonging. It was also a respite from the new Nueva Yolk, a city that is pushing poor Puerto Ricans and others out of El Bronx (now sold to salsa-dancing hipsters as "SoBro" by realtors), El Barrio (sold as "SpaHa," aka Spanish Harlem) and other neighborhoods where salsa once spilled out on the concrete bringing relief like water from a fire hydrant in August.
While the mere fact of seeing something like the salsa street fairs we grew up with on the big screen for the first time was enough to make some of our eyes watery, the film failed to tell us about the intimate link between the music and the people who were bobbing and tapping, singing and dancing, and calling and responding in the theater that night. While most reviewers criticized the movie for centering around J-Lo's character, Puchi, and not Marc Anthony's mostly drugged out Lavoe character, they failed to note the flattest characters in the movie: the Nuyoricans. There is no sense of the community that inspired Lavoe to croon in his paean to Puerto Ricanness, "Mi Gente."
Vinieron todos para oirme guarachar;
pero como soy de ustedes,
yo los invitara a cantar
(You all came to hear me sing/ but because I am of you/ I invite you to sing).
It is understandable that the movie tells the story of Lavoe and Puchi. But to do so without also telling at least part of the story of the rise and challenges of the Puerto Rican people that salsa embodies in its upbeat and often sad lyrics of love, death and politics makes El Cantante an incomplete movie at best. Spanish Harlem Latin jazz legend Eddie Palmieri once told me his aspiration had always been to "write the background music to a revolution."
A woman who owned a salsa music store in El Barrio that had been in existence for almost a decade before Lavoe, Willie Colon, Johnny Pacheco and many others ushered in the salsa era in the 1970s, told me that, "Yes, there were lots of drugs around at that time. We used to have to clear the entrance to the store because there were so many drug users. But the way that [salsa musicians] told our stories in these buildings around here and in 'El Bronx'... that was amazing. That's what made the music - "the comunidad (community). "
Longtime community activist and scholar Angelo Falcon agrees. "The movie missed a great opportunity to educate people, especially young people and the larger public, about the context of salsa," said Falcon, who, like many Nuyoricans, was active in the 1970s around the many issues (open admissions, creating Puerto Rican Studies, housing rights, Puerto Rican independence) that defined Puerto Rican identity along with the music. "They promoted [El Cantante] as a movie that would show how the music changed things, but they didn't tell us what it changed. The music fueled pride and was an integral part of the movement. The movement was also an integral part of the music. They were inseparable, but somehow the movie managed to separate them."
Still, in the end, many of us are moved and grateful that something of our reality -the intimate, smoke-filled little apartment parties packed with men and women sporting leather coats, the pre-corporate and Pentagon-sponsored salsa street fairs, the concerts only we went to- was captured for the first time in the history of big cinema. Now, at a time when Puerto Ricans and other Latinos are again marching and organizing for immigrant and other rights by the millions, it is a matter of getting history to acknowledge the intimate link between the movements of our bodies, our communities and the musica. Que Baile Mi Gente
El Cantante Hits the Stars, Misses the Roots
New America Media, Commentary, Roberto Lovato, Posted: Aug 07, 2007
Editor's Note: The new movie about salsa legend Hector Lavoe has been criticized for focusing too much on its star, Jennifer Lopez, but its real omission is it fails to tell the story of the Puerto Rican community that inspired the music. Roberto Lovato is a New America Media contributing editor based in New York.
NEW YORK - For a single memorable moment, it appeared that real life and film had actually intersected in El Cantante. During the opening night at a cineplex near Times Square of the J-Lo and Marc Anthony movie about the salsa music legend Hector Lavoe, the digital film projector went out, sending the staff scrambling to fix the problem for fear of what the sellout crowd of mostly Puerto Ricans in the audience might do. There were grumblings, some whistling and calls for "refund" but in the end, enthusiasm for salsa music prevailed.
As the audience started clapping a clave (beat arrangement around which the complex, ancient rhythms & syncopations of African & Afro-Cuban music are organized) a handsome, goateed young Boricua (Puerto Rican) man in a colorful guayabera (summer shirt) got up from his seat near the front of the theater and started the call and response with "Mi Gente," one of the Lavoe songs featured in the movie. "La- la- la- la- la- la- la," called the young man, and the men, women and children in the audience, some of whom got up from their seats to dance, responded "Que baile mi gente" (let my people dance). As this went on for several minutes, you could feel how the music on-screen, and in us, still provided a sense of belonging. It was also a respite from the new Nueva Yolk, a city that is pushing poor Puerto Ricans and others out of El Bronx (now sold to salsa-dancing hipsters as "SoBro" by realtors), El Barrio (sold as "SpaHa," aka Spanish Harlem) and other neighborhoods where salsa once spilled out on the concrete bringing relief like water from a fire hydrant in August.
While the mere fact of seeing something like the salsa street fairs we grew up with on the big screen for the first time was enough to make some of our eyes watery, the film failed to tell us about the intimate link between the music and the people who were bobbing and tapping, singing and dancing, and calling and responding in the theater that night. While most reviewers criticized the movie for centering around J-Lo's character, Puchi, and not Marc Anthony's mostly drugged out Lavoe character, they failed to note the flattest characters in the movie: the Nuyoricans. There is no sense of the community that inspired Lavoe to croon in his paean to Puerto Ricanness, "Mi Gente."
Vinieron todos para oirme guarachar;
pero como soy de ustedes,
yo los invitara a cantar
(You all came to hear me sing/ but because I am of you/ I invite you to sing).
It is understandable that the movie tells the story of Lavoe and Puchi. But to do so without also telling at least part of the story of the rise and challenges of the Puerto Rican people that salsa embodies in its upbeat and often sad lyrics of love, death and politics makes El Cantante an incomplete movie at best. Spanish Harlem Latin jazz legend Eddie Palmieri once told me his aspiration had always been to "write the background music to a revolution."
A woman who owned a salsa music store in El Barrio that had been in existence for almost a decade before Lavoe, Willie Colon, Johnny Pacheco and many others ushered in the salsa era in the 1970s, told me that, "Yes, there were lots of drugs around at that time. We used to have to clear the entrance to the store because there were so many drug users. But the way that [salsa musicians] told our stories in these buildings around here and in 'El Bronx'... that was amazing. That's what made the music - "the comunidad (community). "
Longtime community activist and scholar Angelo Falcon agrees. "The movie missed a great opportunity to educate people, especially young people and the larger public, about the context of salsa," said Falcon, who, like many Nuyoricans, was active in the 1970s around the many issues (open admissions, creating Puerto Rican Studies, housing rights, Puerto Rican independence) that defined Puerto Rican identity along with the music. "They promoted [El Cantante] as a movie that would show how the music changed things, but they didn't tell us what it changed. The music fueled pride and was an integral part of the movement. The movement was also an integral part of the music. They were inseparable, but somehow the movie managed to separate them."
Still, in the end, many of us are moved and grateful that something of our reality -the intimate, smoke-filled little apartment parties packed with men and women sporting leather coats, the pre-corporate and Pentagon-sponsored salsa street fairs, the concerts only we went to- was captured for the first time in the history of big cinema. Now, at a time when Puerto Ricans and other Latinos are again marching and organizing for immigrant and other rights by the millions, it is a matter of getting history to acknowledge the intimate link between the movements of our bodies, our communities and the musica. Que Baile Mi Gente
El Caobo
Son Montuno
I don't think I've seen the following article by Willie Colón here.
Here it is:
"The Creators of El Cantante missed an opportunity to do something of relevance for our community. The real story was about Hector fighting the obstacles of a non-supportive industry that took advantage of
entertainers with his charisma and talent. Instead they did another movie about two Puerto Rican junkies. The impact of drugs in the entertainment industry is nothing new; look at Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan and Whitney Houston today.
I think Hector deserves the recognition the movie pretended to give him. However, as someone who advised the producers, it's painfully obvious that they didn't understand what made him so important. It was the music. It was his talent. They didn't understand or respect the true importance of this music to people around the world. It's difficult to comprehend how two individuals who are in the music business like Marc and Jennifer are not aware of the damage and the consequences of
promoting only the negative side of our Latin music culture.
I was disappointed that there wasn't a minimal effort to correct what I felt were serious chronological and factual errors. Similarly, the wrong story was told in The Capeman with disastrous economic consequences.
After the premier of El Cantante in Puerto Rico there was several statements of protest by people who had supported and participated in the project until they saw it.
Their complaints were not about sour grapes or J-lo and Marc bashing but from a sense of betrayal and disappoinment. We are all invested in the world that this movie represents. For many of us the hope of our story finally being told sank into the horizon with the final version of this film."
Willie A. Colon
Here it is:
"The Creators of El Cantante missed an opportunity to do something of relevance for our community. The real story was about Hector fighting the obstacles of a non-supportive industry that took advantage of
entertainers with his charisma and talent. Instead they did another movie about two Puerto Rican junkies. The impact of drugs in the entertainment industry is nothing new; look at Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan and Whitney Houston today.
I think Hector deserves the recognition the movie pretended to give him. However, as someone who advised the producers, it's painfully obvious that they didn't understand what made him so important. It was the music. It was his talent. They didn't understand or respect the true importance of this music to people around the world. It's difficult to comprehend how two individuals who are in the music business like Marc and Jennifer are not aware of the damage and the consequences of
promoting only the negative side of our Latin music culture.
I was disappointed that there wasn't a minimal effort to correct what I felt were serious chronological and factual errors. Similarly, the wrong story was told in The Capeman with disastrous economic consequences.
After the premier of El Cantante in Puerto Rico there was several statements of protest by people who had supported and participated in the project until they saw it.
Their complaints were not about sour grapes or J-lo and Marc bashing but from a sense of betrayal and disappoinment. We are all invested in the world that this movie represents. For many of us the hope of our story finally being told sank into the horizon with the final version of this film."
Willie A. Colon
And why wasn't Willie Colon a producer again? :?
I does rather seem that this movie is getting reviewed more for what it isn't rather than what it is and, in some quarters, could be the best movie of the year and would still be slammed because of the attitude it takes to its lead characters.
Still, despite the appearance of J-Lo and MA, it will be interesting to see if it gets a general cinema release in the UK.
Still, despite the appearance of J-Lo and MA, it will be interesting to see if it gets a general cinema release in the UK.
i simply loved it just because it was about hector lavoe.
it's sad that they didn't focus more on obstacles he did overcome; but this should also serve as an impetus to the creative lavoists of the world to target other aspects of his life; batman begins was a lot better than the michael keaton batman. "lavoe" can be better than "el cantante."
nonetheless, there was so little on lavoe in the mainstream that i commend anthony and lopez for having brought any part of his story to life; now there's all kinds of specials broadcasts on the spanish network; what's i dislike is that they spin it towards the abuse and his downfall.
i'd like to see something that portrays his neighborhood life in new york, like what side jobs he had to take while he got his singing going; how he probably joked and gossiped with the urban new york city folklore; how he got inspiration for "juanita alimana," probably witnessing the lifestyles of criminals just as ruthless or hearing about them.
there was a time when all i sang and played in my car's stereo were "juanita alimana, calle luna calle sol, aguanile, timbalero, que bien te vez, etc." all that music got me through some tough times, so the movie indeed moved me;
the day after i saw the hector lavoe movie, i had "aguanile" looping in my head to the point that i had to upload my rendition:
alobravo.com/2007/08/08/hector-lavoe-movie-music-gets-me-through-workout/
it's sad that they didn't focus more on obstacles he did overcome; but this should also serve as an impetus to the creative lavoists of the world to target other aspects of his life; batman begins was a lot better than the michael keaton batman. "lavoe" can be better than "el cantante."
nonetheless, there was so little on lavoe in the mainstream that i commend anthony and lopez for having brought any part of his story to life; now there's all kinds of specials broadcasts on the spanish network; what's i dislike is that they spin it towards the abuse and his downfall.
i'd like to see something that portrays his neighborhood life in new york, like what side jobs he had to take while he got his singing going; how he probably joked and gossiped with the urban new york city folklore; how he got inspiration for "juanita alimana," probably witnessing the lifestyles of criminals just as ruthless or hearing about them.
there was a time when all i sang and played in my car's stereo were "juanita alimana, calle luna calle sol, aguanile, timbalero, que bien te vez, etc." all that music got me through some tough times, so the movie indeed moved me;
the day after i saw the hector lavoe movie, i had "aguanile" looping in my head to the point that i had to upload my rendition:
alobravo.com/2007/08/08/hector-lavoe-movie-music-gets-me-through-workout/
Welcome to Salsa Forums, Numberneal.
Peach, Mr. Colon wasn't hired as director or consultant because after viewing the script and correcting chrono errors as well as events that never happened Nuyorican Productions went along and did it their way.
Yes it should have been called LA ESPOSA
1. Pacheco invents the word Salsa when he sees Willie and Hector together. Can someone tell him El Dia de Mi Suerte and many other songs do not include Cuban genres. That it was he who played 100% Cuban music/cover tunes?
2. Masucci names Hector ?Lavoe? because ?Perez? is too common? amazing, everyone else is Rodriguez, Valdez, Gomez, Gonzalez, Vasquez, ez, ez, ez, but Perez is a welfare name and La Voe means La Voz as if 2 previous singers were never named La Voz. According to Mangual, Hector was named Lavoe by Arturo Franquiz.
3. Everyone knows this Eddie guy, the supposed made up character of 5 different guys into one, who?s suppose to be his best friend was originally Cookie in the script. Cookie swore he would sue if they try to claim he was the one who introduced Hector to heroin in the bathroom scene. I guess the word got to them.
4. Taxi driver recognizes Hector Perez (not Lavoe at this point) as well known singer just as strangers do before he records with Willie Colon. Did I miss the part on how he is informed of the location of Puchi's unannounced party? Oh they show us afterwards.
5. Puchi throws girl (Carmen, his first wife) out of Fania studio during Willie?s recording session (Something Willie would never allow)? Hey they got something right....The studio is set up in the right direction with the door being on the right when facing the glass from the recording room.
6. It jumps from Puchi throwing something in Willie?s direction for the ring to the I Do?s then to the not so sure if it?s the Fania All Stars or Willie?s Band (with Pacheco in every performance from the beginning of the movie) performing in San Juan?to a dazed collection of flashbacks intended to inform the audience of what has transpired between whatever beginning point of the story to that moment?. a total misdirection/confusion. It is said the wedding did not take place like that people.
7. Never thought Marc could screw up Willie?s aguinaldos!
8. Victor Manuelle does a great RB accent in a fictitious scene! The man has a great voice. The best part of the movie was listening to VM if only to take my mind off the overdose of Jlo's presence. People Mr. Colon fought tooth and nail for the song from Ruben Blades so Hector could record it. Paula Campbell aka Paula C has the same story as Mr. Colon.
9. The El Cantante recording session started out fine, although they messed with the arrangements a bit on purpose it ended up disappointing with another interrupted drug scene.
10. Flashes of Fania and Willie?s albums must confuse the public as to who Hector played with at any given time after and before the breakup. The film does not prepare the audience well. Except for a couple of FAS flashing ads was it Hector's band? FAS? Was Hector the only FAS singer on stage? In the Buddy Holly Story and La Bamba the films gave stage to all the rock and roll artists travelling with them on the road. Was it too difficult for the Jlo camp to show other talent?
11. Ok they implied there was a possibility of a foursome that night (which to my understanding it's men switching female partners in the open) by Jlo saying ?It was normal for us? with the help of her hopping on top of Willie?s girl. All this time "some" people were claiming it implied Willie and Hector had something going on. Boy algunas gente cannot listen well..but then again this movie was confusing.
12. The whole Cheetah scene is allllll wrong?. Marc?s comment never happened or am I wrong? I was one of the first people in that place that night and didn't leave my spot on the corner of the right side of the stage till the end. He?s even singing the other soneros soneo?s in Quitate Tu! Did they avoid seeing the FAS film? That was suppose to be THE FANIA ALL STARS night, everyone was a star that evening. Where are all the rest of the singers? That place was PACKED! By the way for the Puchi fans, Puchi wore brown shirt and hotpants that evening.
13. She says Hector?s fk ups had him sinking deeper as a person? How about hers? Mr. Colon is right about this comment. Not only is it demoralizing, but saying it made him one of us is insulting to every one of us. What a dump stupid line; no wonder that lady wanted a boycott.
14. Funny how her daughter is never shown as if she was a virgin when she met Hector. Let's not get into how the son really died.
15. Aguanille comes during Hector?s SOLO career? The number is not as great as the original Aguanille! People gotta stop playing with the arrangements if it?s intended to imitate life.
16. In the beginning Willie claims he can?t speak Spanish, but later on he?s talking to Hector in Spanish. And Hector did not speak English except for a few phrases.
17. She claims her house burned down but meanwhile they are living in a luxury high rise in Manhattan throughout the movie, raise their son there, and supposedly died there a very young man; meanwhile their son had a son of his own before his death.
18. People there's a difference on being a ***** and being Tough.
19. They met after Hector hooked up with Willie not before.
This movie was not the worst in film history, but it wasn?t good either. I decided this project was a Jlo/Marc wanna make a movie their way at the expense of a legend due to the illogical explanation by supporting critics of her having a financial investment. Sadly those who did not grow up in that era would absorb all of it as fact. Like most critics stated, I too felt if it weren?t for the music there would be no movie. Thanks to the music the na?ve public is entertained enough to sit through the whole movie and endure the 6th grade script which had no developing story.... only a series of moments never explaining why. In a script there has to be a main character, but in Jlo's film one is not sure who is the main character. It fails to have important elements in script writing 101:
In El Cantante, the only confrontation is Puchi. Did Marc pull off the Hector character? No. Did we learn who Hector was other than a singing junkie? No. What caused his pain other then Marc saying "I don't like talking about it"? No. Marc came across as someone who had problems getting into character. Jlo on the other hand made Puchi the unofficial main character so she could be in every scene, and the Masucci actor looked a bit and sounded like Dustin Hoffman.
This couple who had the money and the opportunity to make a great movie about Hector Lavoe failed because they were so self absorbed and self promoting at the expense of a man, who with all his faults and personal failures, was a part of a movement, a culture, and musical era alongside one of the most brilliant men in Latin Music?Willie Colon, and that's the truth Ms. Lopez! The story of one cannot be told without the other which is probably why Jlo and the script writers decided to focus on the Puchi character and expand on it. It might be true this movie could spark an interest in the Fania artists, but it?s also true the real story of Hector Lavoe without excluding his drug problems would spark the same interest, if not more, and do more good for the Puerto Rican/Nuyorican people instead of showing the world how we continue to fk up all the opportunities that come our way because it is all they are shown when opportunity knocks. The people do not know about our successes and will not know until someone has the guts to do a story which focuses on success vs failure. May the recent numbers be a lesson to this couple who are now aware failure doesn't always pay at the box office. Watch her Reggaeton project be a total flop. Jlo's not as smart as Salma Hayak when it comes to cultural pride.
I look forward to one day seeing a movie done with the original voice and no fiddling around with the arrangements to claim it yours. Georgie boy must stop copying arrangements and messing around with masterpiece work. It?s time for him to create his own masterpiece........ if he can.
Yes it should have been called LA ESPOSA
1. Pacheco invents the word Salsa when he sees Willie and Hector together. Can someone tell him El Dia de Mi Suerte and many other songs do not include Cuban genres. That it was he who played 100% Cuban music/cover tunes?
2. Masucci names Hector ?Lavoe? because ?Perez? is too common? amazing, everyone else is Rodriguez, Valdez, Gomez, Gonzalez, Vasquez, ez, ez, ez, but Perez is a welfare name and La Voe means La Voz as if 2 previous singers were never named La Voz. According to Mangual, Hector was named Lavoe by Arturo Franquiz.
3. Everyone knows this Eddie guy, the supposed made up character of 5 different guys into one, who?s suppose to be his best friend was originally Cookie in the script. Cookie swore he would sue if they try to claim he was the one who introduced Hector to heroin in the bathroom scene. I guess the word got to them.
4. Taxi driver recognizes Hector Perez (not Lavoe at this point) as well known singer just as strangers do before he records with Willie Colon. Did I miss the part on how he is informed of the location of Puchi's unannounced party? Oh they show us afterwards.
5. Puchi throws girl (Carmen, his first wife) out of Fania studio during Willie?s recording session (Something Willie would never allow)? Hey they got something right....The studio is set up in the right direction with the door being on the right when facing the glass from the recording room.
6. It jumps from Puchi throwing something in Willie?s direction for the ring to the I Do?s then to the not so sure if it?s the Fania All Stars or Willie?s Band (with Pacheco in every performance from the beginning of the movie) performing in San Juan?to a dazed collection of flashbacks intended to inform the audience of what has transpired between whatever beginning point of the story to that moment?. a total misdirection/confusion. It is said the wedding did not take place like that people.
7. Never thought Marc could screw up Willie?s aguinaldos!
8. Victor Manuelle does a great RB accent in a fictitious scene! The man has a great voice. The best part of the movie was listening to VM if only to take my mind off the overdose of Jlo's presence. People Mr. Colon fought tooth and nail for the song from Ruben Blades so Hector could record it. Paula Campbell aka Paula C has the same story as Mr. Colon.
9. The El Cantante recording session started out fine, although they messed with the arrangements a bit on purpose it ended up disappointing with another interrupted drug scene.
10. Flashes of Fania and Willie?s albums must confuse the public as to who Hector played with at any given time after and before the breakup. The film does not prepare the audience well. Except for a couple of FAS flashing ads was it Hector's band? FAS? Was Hector the only FAS singer on stage? In the Buddy Holly Story and La Bamba the films gave stage to all the rock and roll artists travelling with them on the road. Was it too difficult for the Jlo camp to show other talent?
11. Ok they implied there was a possibility of a foursome that night (which to my understanding it's men switching female partners in the open) by Jlo saying ?It was normal for us? with the help of her hopping on top of Willie?s girl. All this time "some" people were claiming it implied Willie and Hector had something going on. Boy algunas gente cannot listen well..but then again this movie was confusing.
12. The whole Cheetah scene is allllll wrong?. Marc?s comment never happened or am I wrong? I was one of the first people in that place that night and didn't leave my spot on the corner of the right side of the stage till the end. He?s even singing the other soneros soneo?s in Quitate Tu! Did they avoid seeing the FAS film? That was suppose to be THE FANIA ALL STARS night, everyone was a star that evening. Where are all the rest of the singers? That place was PACKED! By the way for the Puchi fans, Puchi wore brown shirt and hotpants that evening.
13. She says Hector?s fk ups had him sinking deeper as a person? How about hers? Mr. Colon is right about this comment. Not only is it demoralizing, but saying it made him one of us is insulting to every one of us. What a dump stupid line; no wonder that lady wanted a boycott.
14. Funny how her daughter is never shown as if she was a virgin when she met Hector. Let's not get into how the son really died.
15. Aguanille comes during Hector?s SOLO career? The number is not as great as the original Aguanille! People gotta stop playing with the arrangements if it?s intended to imitate life.
16. In the beginning Willie claims he can?t speak Spanish, but later on he?s talking to Hector in Spanish. And Hector did not speak English except for a few phrases.
17. She claims her house burned down but meanwhile they are living in a luxury high rise in Manhattan throughout the movie, raise their son there, and supposedly died there a very young man; meanwhile their son had a son of his own before his death.
18. People there's a difference on being a ***** and being Tough.
19. They met after Hector hooked up with Willie not before.
This movie was not the worst in film history, but it wasn?t good either. I decided this project was a Jlo/Marc wanna make a movie their way at the expense of a legend due to the illogical explanation by supporting critics of her having a financial investment. Sadly those who did not grow up in that era would absorb all of it as fact. Like most critics stated, I too felt if it weren?t for the music there would be no movie. Thanks to the music the na?ve public is entertained enough to sit through the whole movie and endure the 6th grade script which had no developing story.... only a series of moments never explaining why. In a script there has to be a main character, but in Jlo's film one is not sure who is the main character. It fails to have important elements in script writing 101:
- Dramatic premise ? what is the film about.
Dramatic Situation ? the dramatic circumstances surrounding the story?
Confrontation - the main character encounters obstacles that keep him from achieving his dramatic need. Dramatic need is what the main character wants to win, gain, get, or achieve during the screenplay.
And finally Resolution.
In El Cantante, the only confrontation is Puchi. Did Marc pull off the Hector character? No. Did we learn who Hector was other than a singing junkie? No. What caused his pain other then Marc saying "I don't like talking about it"? No. Marc came across as someone who had problems getting into character. Jlo on the other hand made Puchi the unofficial main character so she could be in every scene, and the Masucci actor looked a bit and sounded like Dustin Hoffman.
This couple who had the money and the opportunity to make a great movie about Hector Lavoe failed because they were so self absorbed and self promoting at the expense of a man, who with all his faults and personal failures, was a part of a movement, a culture, and musical era alongside one of the most brilliant men in Latin Music?Willie Colon, and that's the truth Ms. Lopez! The story of one cannot be told without the other which is probably why Jlo and the script writers decided to focus on the Puchi character and expand on it. It might be true this movie could spark an interest in the Fania artists, but it?s also true the real story of Hector Lavoe without excluding his drug problems would spark the same interest, if not more, and do more good for the Puerto Rican/Nuyorican people instead of showing the world how we continue to fk up all the opportunities that come our way because it is all they are shown when opportunity knocks. The people do not know about our successes and will not know until someone has the guts to do a story which focuses on success vs failure. May the recent numbers be a lesson to this couple who are now aware failure doesn't always pay at the box office. Watch her Reggaeton project be a total flop. Jlo's not as smart as Salma Hayak when it comes to cultural pride.
I look forward to one day seeing a movie done with the original voice and no fiddling around with the arrangements to claim it yours. Georgie boy must stop copying arrangements and messing around with masterpiece work. It?s time for him to create his own masterpiece........ if he can.
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Hi JaneMas. Nice to "see" you again! 
El Caobo
Son Montuno
Okay, just how have we benefitted from the current discussion; which are mostly negative, about the movie?
That is my question.
Interestingly, the less one knows about Héctor Lavoe, the more likely one will enjoy the movie. I concede that much was omitted that should have been included. Much was included that should have been omitted. Some scenes were out right fabrications. The chronology was not accurate. An opportunity to educate the community was lost. The movie focused on the wrong aspects of Lavoe's life. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
I took a group of non-Latino high school students to the movie after only cursorily telling them who Héctor Lavoe was. They enjoyed the movie and after debriefing them following the movie, it was clear that they did learn much about the evolution of what we now generically call salsa. More importantly, they were interested in the story and wanted to know more and asked many good questions. So, the movie was far from a complete failure.
To all the "criticones," to use Héctor's word to describe them, we should really consider dropping the pontification. Yes, I also concede that some critics are experts and privileged to know, not only what is wrong with this movie, but every detail of the entire salsa movement. I know, some of them were there, weren't they? Or, they are so fortunate as to know someone who was there and who told them the "sanctified" version of the story. Surely, their understanding of the "facts" and "what's wrong" is far superior to ours.
I assert that there is no perfect biography, nor autobiography. Any story is told from a certain perspective or certain perspectives. None of this pontifcation, including mine, is of much consequence.
I've been reading much about the other movie, "The Singer." Many people are projecting it as the "true" story, as missed by "El Cantante." Well, I hope it comes out soon. We'll all see that the "criticones" won't fully embrace it either.
That is my question.
Interestingly, the less one knows about Héctor Lavoe, the more likely one will enjoy the movie. I concede that much was omitted that should have been included. Much was included that should have been omitted. Some scenes were out right fabrications. The chronology was not accurate. An opportunity to educate the community was lost. The movie focused on the wrong aspects of Lavoe's life. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
I took a group of non-Latino high school students to the movie after only cursorily telling them who Héctor Lavoe was. They enjoyed the movie and after debriefing them following the movie, it was clear that they did learn much about the evolution of what we now generically call salsa. More importantly, they were interested in the story and wanted to know more and asked many good questions. So, the movie was far from a complete failure.
To all the "criticones," to use Héctor's word to describe them, we should really consider dropping the pontification. Yes, I also concede that some critics are experts and privileged to know, not only what is wrong with this movie, but every detail of the entire salsa movement. I know, some of them were there, weren't they? Or, they are so fortunate as to know someone who was there and who told them the "sanctified" version of the story. Surely, their understanding of the "facts" and "what's wrong" is far superior to ours.
I assert that there is no perfect biography, nor autobiography. Any story is told from a certain perspective or certain perspectives. None of this pontifcation, including mine, is of much consequence.
I've been reading much about the other movie, "The Singer." Many people are projecting it as the "true" story, as missed by "El Cantante." Well, I hope it comes out soon. We'll all see that the "criticones" won't fully embrace it either.
I wish I would have read the discussion on this forum BEFORE watching the movie :cry:
Somehow, I expected to see a depiction of the influences of Hector Lavoe on the salsascene... I expected to learn what inspired the man behind the voice...I expected to hear top-quality music...
Needless, to say I left the theatre very disappointed
And, indeed, I agree that the the movie should have been named "La Esposa" :!:
Somehow, I expected to see a depiction of the influences of Hector Lavoe on the salsascene... I expected to learn what inspired the man behind the voice...I expected to hear top-quality music...
Needless, to say I left the theatre very disappointed
And, indeed, I agree that the the movie should have been named "La Esposa" :!:
Criticones? Are you not doing the same to me? 8) Oh that's right it's her money I forgot. How could you not benefit from finding out what never transpired? Or are we suppose to swallow everything without question?
I took a group of non-Latino high school students to the movie after only cursorily telling them who H?ctor Lavoe was. They enjoyed the movie and after debriefing them following the movie, it was clear that they did learn much about the evolution of what we now generically call salsa.
Did they enjoy the movie or the music in the movie? :lol: What and how did they learn about the evolution of Salsa from the movie? Did I miss that part? Oh Pacheco says so in the club scene, that's right. Was there another scene I missed? So tell me what is generic about El Dia de Mi Suerte, La Murga, etc? How about the Christmas song? I'd like to know which genres these three songs are arranged in for starters? Please let your students know:
1. She was never in the studio let alone throw Carmen out.
2. She never danced on stage or on the side of the stage.
3. She was not the manager. Booking agents collected money and gave them to the real managers or the bandleader.
4. She and Hector met after he recorded Che Che Cole with Willie.
5. They never lived in a place like that...none of them had it that good.
6. Willie never scold him for being late at the Cheetah cause Hector wasn't late and it was FAS night. The Willie Colon Orq wasn't playing that night nor was he the only one singing...everyone was solo that evening.
More importantly, they were interested in the story and wanted to know more and asked many good questions. So, the movie was far from a complete failure.
Ok, if you say there was a story, there was a story. So what was hurting Hector so much making him succumbed to drugs besides Papi mad at him for going to NY? What kind of personality did he have? When he wasn't singing or doing drugs what did he do? Can I have a synopsis of the movie from you?
I took a group of non-Latino high school students to the movie after only cursorily telling them who H?ctor Lavoe was. They enjoyed the movie and after debriefing them following the movie, it was clear that they did learn much about the evolution of what we now generically call salsa.
Did they enjoy the movie or the music in the movie? :lol: What and how did they learn about the evolution of Salsa from the movie? Did I miss that part? Oh Pacheco says so in the club scene, that's right. Was there another scene I missed? So tell me what is generic about El Dia de Mi Suerte, La Murga, etc? How about the Christmas song? I'd like to know which genres these three songs are arranged in for starters? Please let your students know:
1. She was never in the studio let alone throw Carmen out.
2. She never danced on stage or on the side of the stage.
3. She was not the manager. Booking agents collected money and gave them to the real managers or the bandleader.
4. She and Hector met after he recorded Che Che Cole with Willie.
5. They never lived in a place like that...none of them had it that good.
6. Willie never scold him for being late at the Cheetah cause Hector wasn't late and it was FAS night. The Willie Colon Orq wasn't playing that night nor was he the only one singing...everyone was solo that evening.
More importantly, they were interested in the story and wanted to know more and asked many good questions. So, the movie was far from a complete failure.
Ok, if you say there was a story, there was a story. So what was hurting Hector so much making him succumbed to drugs besides Papi mad at him for going to NY? What kind of personality did he have? When he wasn't singing or doing drugs what did he do? Can I have a synopsis of the movie from you?
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Gigi said:I wish I would have read the discussion on this forum BEFORE watching the movie :cry:
Somehow, I expected to see a depiction of the influences of Hector Lavoe on the salsascene... I expected to learn what inspired the man behind the voice...I expected to hear top-quality music...
Needless, to say I left the theatre very disappointed
And, indeed, I agree that the the movie should have been named "La Esposa" :!:
Exactly, and we the nuyoricans or ricans shouldn't sell ourselves cheap by saying this was a great movie with a great story. Being "negative" when it rightfully deserves it is having the guts to say I'd rather keep reading great Spanish literature then to continue seeing Boricua Bond type movies. But the music was not top quality? If they would of played the original arrangements instead implementing different cuts and breaks and used the original voice you might have enjoyed it, or maybe this is not the way for you to be introduced to this type of music... could be you might be use to hearing the waterdown salsa... no offense.
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El Caobo
Son Montuno
JaneMas said:
If I were addressing you personally, my message would have made it perfectly clear. Nearly this entire thread is comprised of negative comments relative to the moive. So, you should not have taken what I wrote personally. However, since you are addressing me, I'll answer your questions as best I can:
JaneMas said:
I believe that I was very explicit when I wrote "They enjoyed the movie." However, you are entitled to second guess.
JaneMas said:
Those are just the details that make the movie more enjoyable for those who are not so emotionally attached to the man or the circumstances around him that they are unable to enjoy the movie for what it is worth. Those points are obviously very important to you; not to my students and frankly, not to me either! Seems to be personal concerns of someone who either did not like Puchi or does not like J-Lo, or both. Not only that, I find it striking when anyone speaks in absolutes. For example, to be able to truthfully say that Puchi was "never" in the studio, would mean that you were "always" in the studio and hence are in a position to make such an absolute comment. Likewise, to be able to say that Puchi "never" danced on the side of the stage would mean that you were "always" on the side of the stage, or where you could see the side of the stage, to be able to make that absolute comment, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. I obviously don't know who you really are. Perhaps you were omnipresent in the life of Héctor Lavoe and are qualified to make those absolute assertions. If so, how fortunate for you. If not, it would mean that your comments are driven by an emotional state that exceeds the limits of rationality.
JaneMas said:
Well, before I answer that question, perhaps you can tell us why Elvis did drugs? How about Jimmy Hendrix? Miles Davis? Frankie Ruiz? Mon Rivera? Cheo Feliciano? James Brown? Britney Spears? Paris Hilton, Lindsey Lohan? Shall I go on? The point is that drug use is extremely pervasive in the music/entertainment industry.
JaneMas said:
The movie did not answer those questions. I've already conceded that the movie had its shortcomings. Yet, I enjoyed it. You did not. Such is the subjectivity of human likes and dislikes.
I cannot answer the personal questions about Héctor Lavoe's life, but at this point I am rather conversant regarding his discography and professional trajectory. I'm not sure how much more I even want to know about his personal life. For example, I could not care less whether or not Puchi threw Carmen out of the studio one day! Personally, I would be more than content to get more information on his professional life.
I have written what I wanted to say relative to the movie. Beyond that, no, you may not have a synopsis from me. If it is important for you that we know these things and you are in a position to tell us, then by all means, please do! In fact, it would be most productive if you did tell us what you know from first hand experience. Based on your absolute comments about Puchi, you were there all the time, right?
We've already read the scathing diatribes against the movie from those who obviously possess an omniscience regarding Héctor's life, or felt that the movie should have been more transcendental. What we, or at least I, would like to read are credible stories that tell us more about who Héctor Lavoe was; such as about his personality, as you mentioned. So, in addition to telling us what's wrong with the movie, please honor us by telling us what you know about Héctor and how it is that you know it.
¡Ya yo ya! Punto y aparte.
I would assume your a teacher? If so, then providing an open door that would disseminate any false events should be welcomed vs called criticones. Like I stated in my observations, I, like you, liked the movie, well some what, but only because of the music. The film had no story. If you don't believe those numbering points then you don't believe Willie Colon either since he has verified all of that. No scolding at the Cheetah, no studio visits, no high rise luxury, no baby teen death, no such wedding, no Ruben Blades writing and giving Hector the song El Cantante at the Corso, no meeting Hector till after Che Che Cole release, no managing, etc. But can you answer this:
When he wasn't singing or doing drugs what did he do? Or at least what have we all learned about the evolution of the music from the movie?
When he wasn't singing or doing drugs what did he do? Or at least what have we all learned about the evolution of the music from the movie?
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